1.6L EB recall

[ice-capades]

Without the time to read the previous 75 messages regarding this new issue... Alan Mulally, Ford's CEO, who has been so strict on quality issues, has to be going crazy with the continuing problems related to both the 2013 Escape and now 2013 Fusion. Besides the bad media attention, Ford dealers are on the front line in handling this new recall issue. In the meantime, Ford dealers are still waiting to receive 2013 Fusion's that were built 3+ months ago. On the PLUS side of this negative situation, Ford is being very pro-active, admitting that there's a problem and doing what's right for the customer.

[fordtech1]

I worked today and ofcourse the calls and Escapes starting comming in. Some customers are upset, some are pretty cool about it. One lady said "I just got back from a long road trip, I will just drive it to you". We sent a tow truck as instructed, but she wasn't too worried. Seems the biggest concern for most is the difficulty of getting a rental. The local RAC places were out of cars. I wish Ford would have waited until Monday to release this. Ideally giving the dealers a few days notice to get stuff in order to deal with the influx of customers would have been great. However, I know it would be leaked out anyway and a panic would set in plus the media would have stated Ford was trying to cover it up.

 

Reguardless this too shall pass. Ford is doing the best it can with the situation. It is discouraging how Ford has worked so hard to get the quality perception up, yet it only takes something like this to knock you back.

[Hugh]

I worked today and ofcourse the calls and Escapes starting comming in. Some customers are upset, some are pretty cool about it. One lady said "I just got back from a long road trip, I will just drive it to you". We sent a tow truck as instructed, but she wasn't too worried. Seems the biggest concern for most is the difficulty of getting a rental. The local RAC places were out of cars. I wish Ford would have waited until Monday to release this. Ideally giving the dealers a few days notice to get stuff in order to deal with the influx of customers would have been great. However, I know it would be leaked out anyway and a panic would set in plus the media would have stated Ford was trying to cover it up.

 

Reguardless this too shall pass. Ford is doing the best it can with the situation. It is discouraging how Ford has worked so hard to get the quality perception up, yet it only takes something like this to knock you back.

I can see the weekend in reality is only a couple of days. I understand 'optics' of no action until emotional response is too late. It's a safety issue and a lesson-learned here is perhaps a dealership contingency plan.

[fordtech1]

"This sort of crap pisses me off. I have friends who are car guys and gals who love to trash Ford based on the 80's and 90's"

 

When people say that, I just tell them. "yeah, because a 1990 Chevy lumina is soooo much better than a 1990 Taurus or a 1995 Cadillac Seville is sooo much more reliable than a 1995 Continential".

 

I got in a 1990 Camry the other day from a guy at work and my first thought to myself was "so this was better?" Mechanically I'm sure it had less troubles, however it is bowling shoe ugly. Not to mention how much can a 20hp 4cylinder tear up?

[BORG]

Without the time to read the previous 75 messages regarding this new issue... Alan Mulally, Ford's CEO, who has been so strict on quality issues, has to be going crazy with the continuing problems related to both the 2013 Escape and now 2013 Fusion. Besides the bad media attention, Ford dealers are on the front line in handling this new recall issue. In the meantime, Ford dealers are still waiting to receive 2013 Fusion's that were built 3+ months ago. On the PLUS side of this negative situation, Ford is being very pro-active, admitting that there's a problem and doing what's right for the customer.

 

Yeah, I have absolutely no sympathy here, they put the defective products in customer's hands and they are doing it over and over again. In any other business customers would be able to return them for a full refund and perhaps that would motivate Ford to do better with launches. My buddies at Ford have been warning me to avoid the Fusion at all costs, and by extension the MKZ. I have no doubt they'll fix it eventually, but in the interim you want to stand clear of these products unless you don't mind problems (or you're leasing).

Edited December 1, 2012 by BORG

[jpd80]

You can tell that Ford is in a spin, recalling cars before they have a handle on what the problem is and in front of a weekend,

ensuring chaos at every dealership across the land. Before we begin thinking that every single 1.6 EB has a problem,

perhaps we need to find out exactly what is causing the boiling/overheating, it could be as simple as jamming thermostat

or incorrectly installed parts - we just don't know....heck Ford doesn't know, so without all cars presenting with the fault,

exactly what will Ford be repairing next week on the thousands of cars returned to dealerships?

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[Hugh]

You can tell that Ford is in a spin, recalling cars before they have a handle on what the problem is and in front of a weekend,

ensuring chaos at every dealership across the land. Before we begin thinking that every single 1.6 EB has a problem,

perhaps we need to find out exactly what is causing the boiling/overheating, it could be as simple as jamming thermostat

or incorrectly installed parts - we just don't know....heck Ford doesn't know, so without all cars presenting with the fault,

exactly what will Ford be repairing next week on the thousands of cars returned to dealerships?

Logically, you may be right. Emotionally, regarding a potential safety issue and a proverbial 'fanning the flames' regarding safety. It's a Catch-22 Ford is in. I'm personnally glad a 'stop' order was given. Better to be safe then sorry. The reputation takes yet another black eye, put an icebag on it opposed to going to court when someone sues. If nothing is learned from this, that's the real failure.

[jpd80]

Logically, you may be right. Emotionally, regarding a potential safety issue and a proverbial 'fanning the flames' regarding safety. It's a Catch-22 Ford is in. I'm personnally glad a 'stop' order was given. Better to be safe then sorry. The reputation takes yet another black eye, put an icebag on it opposed to going to court when someone sues. If nothing is learned from this, that's the real failure.

It's 2013, Ford's cars should not be self igniting, the black eye comes from not having a handle on this problem.

Clearly, there is a chain of events happening leading up to leaked coolant causing an under hood fire

but not having a defined idea of what is to be checked or pressure tested is unbelievable.

[Hugh]

It's 2013, Ford's cars should not be self igniting, the black eye comes from not having a handle on this problem.

Clearly, there is a chain of events happening leading up to leaked coolant causing an under hood fire

but not having a defined idea of what is to be checked or pressure tested is unbelievable.

No argument here. I said earlier from 'The Sharp End' all the way up there is a accountability for action to be had here. It'll play out and Ford will have to suck it up again. I figured if all the 'Ford is so terrible' news is true you'd think they'd be used to it by now. At least have a contingency plan

[jpd80]

No argument here. I said earlier from 'The Sharp End' all the way up there is a accountability for action to be had here. It'll play out and Ford will have to suck it up again. I figured if all the 'Ford is so terrible' news is true you'd think they'd be used to it by now. At least have a contingency plan

Hugh, I see it as marring or at the very least distracting from all the good work done building up a new perception of quality products.

You can bet the executives are seething, this was to be Ford's crowning glory, the unification of Ford Europe and Ford NA vehicles.

But as you and Richard have said, FNA will get over this, suck it up and get on with the job of delivering reliable vehicles.

What happens next is important, how buyers are treated and concerns alleviated. It could turn into an extremely valuable

opportunity to hit home how Ford values customers and goes the extra mile with generous forms of compensation..

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[Edstock]

You can tell that Ford is in a spin,

 

Depends on your attitude. To me, you can tell that Ford understands social media, and the importance of being seen to be immediately responsive to reported problems.

[jpd80]

Depends on your attitude. To me, you can tell that Ford understands social media, and the importance of being seen to be immediately responsive to reported problems.

Ed, I understand that but this is damage control pure and simple, "don't drive your car as it may catch fire" is about the worst scenario people can hear.

And announcing it right in front of a weekend is going to cause turmoil at dealerships arranging alternative transport for 89,000 owners.

 

And as I said above,

What happens next is important, how buyers are treated and concerns alleviated. It could turn into an extremely valuable

opportunity to hit home how Ford values customers and goes the extra mile with generous forms of compensation..

Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[MKII]

See edited post above,

My contact tells me this is all on FoE's shoulders, they have dropped the ball big time.

Nothing wrong with vehicle designs as such, the quality of parts that goes into them leaves a lot to be desired...

 

I know Ford Australia does not offer the 1.6 EcoBoost down under, but Volvo offers it is the S60 and V60 which the call T4 180hp, sourced from Bridgend. I could not find

any complaints searching Aussie Volvo forums. Have you heard of any quality concerns with the engine in the Volvo 60 series?

 

Volvo Europe offers the 1.6 EB in most of the line up since 2010 and seems to be trouble free, no fires or other issues. In Europe Volvo offers it on both outputs same as Ford 150hp,160hp and 180hp, with no quailty concerns or fires reported. All sourced from Bridgend

[Hugh]

Hugh, I see it as marring or at the very least distracting from all the good work done building up a new perception of quality products.

You can bet the executives are seething, this was to be Ford's crowning glory, the unification of Ford Europe and Ford NA vehicles.

But as you and Richard have said, FNA will get over this, suck it up and get on with the job of delivering reliable vehicles.

What happens next is important, how buyers are treated and concerns alleviated. It could turn into an extremely valuable

opportunity to hit home how Ford values customers and goes the extra mile with generous forms of compensation..

I can see the 'unification' strategy as the crown jewel. I am not buying 100% Spin. Sorry, I have said err to the side of caution is sound risk management. The dealers are upset for taking the slack and actually having to deal. My tongue-in-cheek 'Contingency Plan' may be seen a little offside so I apologize. There are folks who BETTER be working this weekend on how to fix this issue. That's why there are salaried employees IMO.

[Biker16]

I know Ford Australia does not offer the 1.6 EcoBoost down under, but Volvo offers it is the S60 and V60 which the call T4 180hp, sourced from Bridgend. I could not find

any complaints searching Aussie Volvo forums. Have you heard of any quality concerns with the engine in the Volvo 60 series?

 

Volvo Europe offers the 1.6 EB in most of the line up since 2010 and seems to be trouble free, no fires or other issues. In Europe Volvo offers it on both outputs same as Ford 150hp,160hp and 180hp, with no quailty concerns or fires reported. All sourced from Bridgend

 

The Same thing with the Focus and C-max in the EU not a complaint about engine fires at all.

 

It is peculiar.

[jpd80]

I know Ford Australia does not offer the 1.6 EcoBoost down under,

Have you heard of any quality concerns with the engine in the Volvo 60 series?

As far as I can tell, this is restricted to North American 1.6 EB engine applications Edited December 1, 2012 by jpd80

[MKII]

The Same thing with the Focus and C-max in the EU not a complaint about engine fires at all.

 

It is peculiar.

 

I asked on one of the German Ford forums, if owners of cars with the 1.6 EcoBoost have experienced any problems, and out of 200 respondents, only 1 with it in his Mondeo had to have a head gasket replaced. No issues from Focus, C-Max or S-Max 1.6 EcoBoost owners. Very small sample of owners and does not prove anything, but the engine has been in use for almost 3 years now and no fires reported.

 

Find it odd that the Bridgend engine plant can be capable enough to put together the 1.6 EB for its other Ford global markets, plus for the Volvo global marketed cars, but cannot meet the high standards and changes required for the North American market. Very weird.

Edited December 1, 2012 by MKII

[jpd80]

The Same thing with the Focus and C-max in the EU not a complaint about engine fires at all.

 

It is peculiar.

Or the problem is peculiar to to those engine applications and any changes made,

vehicle related overheating problems would be identified in pre-release testing...

 

I asked on one of the German Ford forums, if owners of cars with the 1.6 EcoBoost have experienced any problems, and out of 200 respondents, only 1 with it in his Mondeo had to have a head gasket replaced. No issues from Focus, C-Max or S-Max 1.6 EcoBoost owners. Very small sample of owners and does not prove anything, but the engine has been in use for almost 3 years now and no fires reported.

As above, something has changed between European deliveries of the 1.6 EB and the North American version.

I'm not implying the engine is a dud, just some annoying variant has crept in and causing the problem.

[akirby]

Did adding the N.A. volume increase the engine plant's output?

[jpd80]

Did adding the N.A. volume increase the engine plant's output?

Yes, we're talking about nearly 90,000 units dating back to last year.

European production is heavily skewed towards diesel engines.....

Edited December 2, 2012 by jpd80

[akirby]

Yes, we're talking about nearly 90,000 units dating back to last year.

European production is heavily skewed towards diesel engines.....

 

New workers? New shifts? Overworked workers?

[Anthony]

You can tell that Ford is in a spin, recalling cars before they have a handle on what the problem is and in front of a weekend,

ensuring chaos at every dealership across the land. Before we begin thinking that every single 1.6 EB has a problem,

perhaps we need to find out exactly what is causing the boiling/overheating, it could be as simple as jamming thermostat

or incorrectly installed parts - we just don't know....heck Ford doesn't know, so without all cars presenting with the fault,

exactly what will Ford be repairing next week on the thousands of cars returned to dealerships?

 

It's possible that there is more going on behind the scenes then is noted. For all we know, the NHTSA might have been ready to step in and Ford wanted to take action / make an announcement before they did. Timing could have been of the essence. It sounds a lot worse coming from the NHTSA then from Ford themselves. Better to recall them now with a non-definitive cause then have the NHTSA make the call for you.

[GammaRae]

What happens next is important, how buyers are treated and concerns alleviated. It could turn into an extremely valuable

opportunity to hit home how Ford values customers and goes the extra mile with generous forms of compensation..

 

This. As soon as I heard about the recall I made a call to my dealer to tell him I hope Ford comes to the table with additional incentives for those of us with 1.6s on order. He basically said that would be nice, but I always have the option to walk away. Didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy he'd put the effort into being and advocate on my behalf.

[GammaRae]

Also, I'll add the dots I've connected and you can all put me straight if I'm incorrect. Reading a statement by a Ford rep, they only know of one Fusion 1.6 catching on fire and also read (probably on this thread, but not going back to find it) that the only known Fusion 1.6 fire was someone at the dealership leaving a dipstick out. If that is the case, could it be there may not be any issues with the Fusion 1.6 and instead they're just getting swept up in the Escape debacle with Ford being extra, extra careful with it?

[ffdemoss]

I think we need to remember that it may not be a quality issue with the engine. It could be a heater hose problem that leaks coolant on the exhaust. The big question here is why is the engine over heating. Every release i have seen starts with engine over hearing then possible fire.

 

I have one and the only thing I'm really pissed about is the fact i have to turn my vehicle over for an undetermined amount of time at a dealership where no telling could happen to it. I'd feel better if I knew it was in my garage even if I can't drive it. At least then I can look at what I am making payments on.