1.6L EB recall

[RichardJensen]

I had hoped things had changed under Mullaly, and maybe they have.

I expect that, over time, Ford is going to wean these products off their EU supply base and re-engineer them for competent global assembly.

 

This should also spur the overhaul of EU manufacturing ops

 

The status quo is no longer an option in Europe. FoE is hemorrhaging money, delivering rotten product to the US and there should be no hiding behind threadbare excuses and the emperor's new clothes notion of continental superiority.

[Biker16]

I expect that, over time, Ford is going to wean these products off their EU supply base and re-engineer them for competent global assembly.

 

This should also spur the overhaul of EU manufacturing ops

 

The status quo is no longer an option in Europe. FoE is hemorrhaging money, delivering rotten product to the US and there should be no hiding behind threadbare excuses and the emperor's new clothes notion of continental superiority.

 

If you don't know what the problem is how can you make such grandiose statements on how to fix them?

 

How can FoE losing money equal poor Quality? how does that Square with Ford NA losing a ton of money 5 -7 years ago and having outstanding quality? I simply don't see the correlation that you are representing as fact.

 

There is more to this story than your xenophobic ASSumptions.

 

Why was there a NA spec engine that has this many issues that the ROW engine simply don't have? maybe the real issue is again late changes to a spec engine, that in past has always led to random and sometimes catastrophic issues.

 

There frankly are more questions that need to be asked before, anyone should jump to the traditional conclusions and blame FOE.

 

Unlike the 2.0 GDI and GTDI the 1.6 uses vertical injectors and doesn't have an integrated exhaust manifold.

 

furthermore the Tier 1 suppliers ford uses going forward will be Global like Bosch, Fauracia, Getrag, etc.

 

This is the a list of some of the suppliers to the NEW Fusion

 

http://media.ford.co...alSuppliers.pdf

 

How the hell can you separate those Scummy EU suppliers from the good suppliers?

Edited December 3, 2012 by Biker16

[RichardJensen]

I simply don't see

Because you don't read, which is why you're not worth rational opposition.

[BrewfanGRB]

• Ford will compensate owners for costs tied to overheating as well.
  

 

Well, how nice of them. Please, don't go out of your way and risk a shoulder injury patting yourself on the back there, Ford.

 

“We have identified an issue and are taking actions in the best interest of our customers,” said Steve Kenner, director of Ford’s Automotive Safety Office. “It is important that affected customers not ignore this recall and contact their dealer as soon as possible. While we recognize the inconvenience recalls cause our customers, we are taking these actions on their behalf to help ensure their safety.”

 

Ford is working on a repair procedure. When parts are available, the company will notify customers so they can schedule a service appointment with dealers.

 

Meanwhile, Ford is advising affected owners to contact a Ford dealer as soon as possible for alternative transportation at no cost to the customer; U.S. owners also may call 866-436-7332 and Canadian customers also may call 888-222-7814 for details on securing alternative transportation.

 

 

No sweat. Take your time with resolving this. After all, owners are only paying interest on a loan for a car they can't safely drive without it possibly incinerating them and having to drive whatever POS from the backlot the dealer happens to throw their way.

 

I'll say this: If I'm owner, I'm taking the vehicle to the dealer on Day 1 and they are putting me in a brand-new Escape with a non-fire consumed engine (if I own an Escape) or a brand-new Fusion with a non-fire consumed engine. If they don't, I'm publicizing that failure immediately. I want to be driving the same damn car you failed to build correctly. Don't have enough? Not my problem.

 

Heads should roll over this. Makes me happy my target is a Fusion Titanium. But Ford needs to tread carefully. I LOVE the look of the Fusion. LOVE the tech in it and I'm a "Ford-guy". But, I spend a LOT of time in my car. I wouldn't put up with this shit if I was one of these owners. The Malibu and 200 at least start to get a look if Ford's not careful.

Edited December 3, 2012 by BrewfanGRB

[BrewfanGRB]

 

Seems the biggest concern for most is the difficulty of getting a rental. The local RAC places were out of cars. I wish Ford would have waited until Monday to release this. Ideally giving the dealers a few days notice to get stuff in order to deal with the influx of customers would have been great. However, I know it would be leaked out anyway and a panic would set in plus the media would have stated Ford was trying to cover it up.

 

The only sympathy I have in this mess is for the dealers, because as you noted, they're the ones that are going to have to try to find rentals for these owners. Personally, I wouldn't take it out on the dealer. I'd take it to Ford, 18 times a day if I had to: "I don't give a shit if you have to put me in a BMW. I'm NOT driving something in a smaller class or a cheaper car than what I had. You don't do it, expect a small claims action. Bye." Bottom line: Pay up, Ford and Idgaf what it costs. That's THEIR problem.

[MKII]

Maybe from your past experience Austin you can answer a couple questions.

Who tests these engines to make sure they meet Ford North America requirements?

Are they tested at the UK plant only?

Are some randomly tested once in the vehicles be it the Escape or Fusion?

What changes or modifications are done that would cause such a difference (issue) such as over heating compared

to how Volvo or the other markets Ford uses this 1.6 EcoBoost. without encountering the same issues?

Would the engine require to be built differently or is it software programming that is done to change the requirements to meet North America standards?

[MKII]

The Ford contact I talked to on Thanksgiving mentioned just that, the Brits insist on doing things their way, just because they always have. I suspect this will now change.

 

Your Ford contact saying this about the Brits, does this mean that the Brits refuse to build the 1.6 EB to meet North American requirements?

Or is it that because of the Brits insistence on doing it their way, that they are incapable of building the engine to meet North American requirements?

[aneekr]

This is the a list of some of the suppliers to the NEW Fusion

 

http://media.ford.co...alSuppliers.pdf

 

How the hell can you separate those Scummy EU suppliers from the good suppliers?

 

Thanks for that supplier summary. There's been a lot of consolidation and merger & acquisition activity among global Tier 1 & Tier 2 suppliers in the past decade, so to answer your question about separating scummy from good would require some detailed analysis.

 

I didn't know until looking at that PDF that 2013 Fusion is using ZF's electric power steering system. ZF is among the best in that area, though TRW's EPS in 2010-2012 Fusions is also very good.

[RichardJensen]

Another factor in re: suppliers, in the same way that Ford has engineering units in Europe and NA, most major suppliers have scattered engineering and mfg. centers as well.

 

Ford needs to get ROW on the NA quality bandwagon ASAP, and that includes suppliers. If you can't build what NA consumers expect, then you can't sell to Ford, period.

[iamamultitasker]

Got this update from the sales conference call today:

 

1. Still don't know what's causing the overheating in the engine.

2. Recalls in general have not yet affected sales of the Escape. Retail Escape sales were up 7% YoY over 2011 which was a monster Escape month.

3. Customer response has been positive and appreciative of pro-active recall.

 

With regard to #3, that sounds like spin to me although at least you can probably safely say that the problem has not yet destroyed customer interest in the Escape especially since there are other engines to be purchased. Ken Czubay further said that Ford doesn't expect this problem to have a major impact on Escape sales going forward.

 

Honestly, I would never buy a vehicle with the 1.6L Ecoboost unless Ford offered a free warranty extension of say 3 years. With this many problems in the beginning, the long term reliability image is IMO tarnished.

Edited December 3, 2012 by iamamultitasker

[akirby]

Honestly, I would never buy a vehicle with the 1.6L Ecoboost unless Ford offered a free warranty extension of say 3 years. With this many problems in the beginning, the long term reliability image is IMO tarnished.

 

None of these problems are indicative of long term reliability issues.

[GammaRae]

Well, those sales call details are depressing. It forced my hand with the dealer to tell him to get with a regional sales manager to reorder my vehicle with a 2.0 and make it a higher priority than 10. Eh, we'll see if they're responsive at all.

[SK360]

Got this update from the sales conference call today:

 

1. Still don't know what's causing the overheating in the engine.

2. Recalls in general have not yet affected sales of the Escape. Retail Escape sales were up 7% YoY over 2011 which was a monster Escape month.

3. Customer response has been positive and appreciative of pro-active recall.

 

With regard to #3, that sounds like spin to me although at least you can probably safely say that the problem has not yet destroyed customer interest in the Escape especially since there are other engines to be purchased. Ken Czubay further said that Ford doesn't expect this problem to have a major impact on Escape sales going forward.

 

Honestly, I would never buy a vehicle with the 1.6L Ecoboost unless Ford offered a free warranty extension of say 3 years. With this many problems in the beginning, the long term reliability image is IMO tarnished.

 

We were positive on Saturday when we gave the escape to the dealer and got put in another mid size crossover. We are not positive anymore after driving this Hyundai Tucson for the weekend, we are not positive after sending in the check for the car payment on the Escape and having a car worth $13,000 less in the garage.

 

This sucks.

[iamamultitasker]

None of these problems are indicative of long term reliability issues.

 

Let's see....3 serious recalls in as many months since introduction. In this case, what else does a buyer have to go on other than this miserable track record for assessing future reliability?

[jpd80]

This week will tell us a lot as Ford sorts exactly what is happening with overheating engines and while it moves quickly,

Ford needs to be sure that the solution is permanent and equitable to buyers and does not an inordinate length of time to execute.

 

I'm willing to bet that this isn't an obvious problem since Ford would be all over heater hoses, freeze plugs and what not.

so it's going to be interesting to see how Ford's emergency team proceeds with this and how much this is going to cost....

Edited December 3, 2012 by jpd80

[akirby]

Let's see....3 serious recalls in as many months since introduction. In this case, what else does a buyer have to go on other than this miserable track record for assessing future reliability?

 

These are problems that are showing up immediately - not something that fails after 5 years. Once these problems are fixed they should not reoccur.

[svtenthusiast]

What's crazy is Ford is paying Enterprise (because they shut down their own internal rental system) to put Ford owners in the compeition's vehicle, along with the inconvienience of dealing with a third party rental company. I haven't seen one person yet that has been given a Ford vehicle. When I go in for service and it requires a rental car I demand them to give me a comparible Ford vehicle, otherwise I am rescheduling the appointment. Is it too much to ask, under normal circumstances (they won't have enough Enterprise fleet to cover this recall, let alone enough Fords, ala Windstar recall), that we get a compariable vehicle that's also a Ford vehicle? Makes me wonder about Ford sometimes.

[aneekr]

In this case, what else does a buyer have to go on other than this miserable track record for assessing future reliability?

 

The less than exemplary reliability stats for some previous FOE designed engines may also raise some buyer concern. One example is the first generation U.S. market C170 Focus. Consumer Reports' past reliability surveys, normalized for mileage, show a notably lower incidence of engine related problems with the Mazda MZR based engine in 2005-2007 Focus compared to the Zetec and CVH/SPI units in 2000-2004 models.

[OHV 16V]

These are problems that are showing up immediately - not something that fails after 5 years. Once these problems are fixed they should not reoccur.

 

I think he may be looking at it from the "All of this so far, what else could go wrong?" perspective. I believe that's definitely justified in the case of this engine. Granted, anyone could say that anytime they buy any new vehicle, but after seeing what this engine has gone through already, I know I wouldn't trust it long-term nor would I recommend it for any friends/family that want to purchase a Ford vehicle that has it. At least not for the next few years till we see how reliability pans out.

Edited December 3, 2012 by OHV 16V

[BrewfanGRB]

so it's going to be interesting to see how Ford's emergency team proceeds with this and how much this is going to cost....

 

Couldn't care less. $40 million? $100? Eleventy billion? That's Mulally's problem.

[SK360]

I wanted to look at the competition before buying our 2013 escape but the fiancée has had 3 prior to this and liked the new one once we drove it. She agrees with me now, we will be looking elsewhere when the times comes again.

[Hugh]

I have to agree with the cost is irrelevant sentiment. I find it a little ironic Ford got out of the rental business and less units to fleet overall to chase the more profitable sales. I don't think they planned their customers driving the competition and possibly setting them up for a lost future sale.

[MineralstangGT]

I wanted to look at the competition before buying our 2013 escape but the fiancée has had 3 prior to this and liked the new one once we drove it. She agrees with me now, we will be looking elsewhere when the times comes again.

 

No problem. Obviously you weren't loyal in the first place, so it hasn't changed. Its also the thought process of some issues on one item causing you to believe that every other product from a certain company is bad. Some people generalize and some don't, but I can appreciate your decision.

[transitman]

I wanted to look at the competition before buying our 2013 escape but the fiancée has had 3 prior to this and liked the new one once we drove it. She agrees with me now, we will be looking elsewhere when the times comes again.

Make the decision to purchase a 2.0L or a Titanium. The mpg's aren't all that different and you have the peace of mind of what seems to be a more refined and reliable engine.

[SK360]

 

 

No problem. Obviously you weren't loyal in the first place, so it hasn't changed. Its also the thought process of some issues on one item causing you to believe that every other product from a certain company is bad. Some people generalize and some don't, but I can appreciate your decision.

 

I wasn't, I'm a GM guy...

His & Hers

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii196/SK360_PGH/Mobile/newstuff/1398398E-7122-4EA0-9018-71FC21EB2BBA-5234-00000201B28A8E6E.jpg

 

She was loyal but she hates this Hyundai rental so much that its tainting her, right or wrong.

Edited December 4, 2012 by SK360