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Hybrid claims of 39mpg


bengbrewer

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That is not always true. Ignoring all other factors a car will get better mileage at the rpm the engine is most efficient at. Smaller engines tend to not be as efficient at really low rpms because it doesn't make as much power that low, so the engine has to work harder to maintain speed.

 

Basically I was saying that you can "tune" a traditional car (with gears) to be optimum at the test mph and in a real world situation it would suffer because you go 20mph faster on the highway...

 

Again with a CVT I am sure it is a completely different story...

 

 

-Keith

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Basically I was saying that you can "tune" a traditional car (with gears) to be optimum at the test mph and in a real world situation it would suffer because you go 20mph faster on the highway...

 

Again with a CVT I am sure it is a completely different story...

 

 

-Keith

 

The test MPH varies. It is not a constant speed, so, basically, no, you can't. If it was a constant speed, sure, but it isn't. You have to accelerate to get from 0-60 MPH, and the gears that may help you achieve maximum MPG at x MPH may hurt you getting to x MPH, therefore negating any benefit.

 

And a CVT changes gears like a conventional automatic, only the CVT has an infinite number of gears whereas a conventional auto has a fixed number, so the gear changes are a very small increment, and the engine can stay in the meat of it's powerband for longer periods of time during acceleration, thus increasing fuel economy during acceleration. With steady-state cruising, there is no appreciable difference between a CVT and conventional auto.

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The Ford hybrid ICE's with the eCVT spend almost all their time between 1100 and 2000 rpm. They are designed to be most efficient there. The old caveat about small engines being inefficient at low rpms because they need to work harder does not apply to these hybrids. The ICE is run at almost full throttle and the lowest RPM for the horsepower called for by your foot. With the eCVT hybrids, mileage increases continuously with decreasing speed. There is no optimum speed.

Edited by lolder
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"Still think 40mpg is pretty darn good for such a large (& heavy) vehicle."

"I expect to get about 40mpg. Any more would be gravy..."

These are my feelings exactly. I have a 10 mile morning commute. Today, my battery started with minimum charge. Adding that the ICE had to also work to warm the car, I got 33 mpg going 60-65 mph. I usually get 38 in the morning. I then did a short hop in the city of 1.6 miles, 1.3 of which was on EV. That gave me over 76 mpg.

We get an mpg reading for each segment that we drive. It has bothered me a little that the fuel use for these is shown in tenths of a gallon. On a short trip, if you actually use .19 gal, it may be calculating as only having used .1 gal, which can throw your MPG results way off by. If the true amount you use is .06 gal on a short hop, it is probably rounding this up to .1, which will make the MPG look very low. This may not be how the system works. Does anyone know? The gallon readings for Trip 1 & 2 are shown to a hundredth of a gallon, so their MPG figures are more accurate.

Edited by Charlee
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Charlee, this is why I like to wait and look at the average for the whole tank. Short trips with a hybrid can be very misleading. My first drive (the drive home) in my Prius I got 25mpg. The second trip I got 50mpg. I tend to average around 40 in it, overall. I think a lot of this will settle out as time goes by.

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Another big issue here not being discussed in this thread. EPA has a specific well documented testing routine. Consumer Reports has a super secret testing routine and won't tell anyone what they did to actually achieve those numbers. Pretty hard to say whether CR's testing was right or wrong in any sense if they don't disclose their testing routine.

 

Didn't CR say that all others cars they tested came out close to the EPA numbers, which is why it was so strange that the FFH came out so far off from the EPA numbers?

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No, they didn't say the non-prius hybrids came close. The Camry's, Lexuses, Sonatas, Optimas and Altimas all missed by a lot and still had lower mpg. than the Fords.

 

All vehicles (or most) come up short of the EPA results. They said the Cmax and Fusion hybrids came up much shorter than the others.

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That's alright, the Government of Canada's "fuel consumption guide" has my AWD Titanium listed at 45mpg (Imperial, which is deceiving) 9.5L /100km City, and 6.3L/100km Highway, which works out to 24.76 mpg city / 37.3 mpg Highway in US -- Which I thought was rather hillarious, they must have coasted down a hill for their testing.

 

Best I've hit so far is 8.5ish on the highway which is 27.6 mpg, mind you it's cold as hell, and the car only has 430 miles on it.

Edited by -Strike-
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No, they didn't say the non-prius hybrids came close. The Camry's, Lexuses, Sonatas, Optimas and Altimas all missed by a lot and still had lower mpg. than the Fords.

 

I just rewatched the consumer reports video. They said most cars they tested come in a couple miles below EPA combined and easily beat the EPA highway numers. The fusion and cmax were the largest discrepancy they have seen. They didn't mention all those other cars except the Camry, which they said even the fusions lower number beat by 1 mpg.

 

 

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That's alright, the Government of Canada's "fuel consumption guide" has my AWD Titanium listed at 45mpg (Imperial, which is deceiving) 9.5L /100km City, and 6.3L/100km Highway, which works out to 24.76 mpg city / 37.3 mpg Highway in US -- Which I thought was rather hillarious, they must have coasted down a hill for their testing.

 

Best I've hit so far is 8.5ish on the highway which is 27.6 mpg, mind you it's cold as hell, and the car only has 430 miles on it.

 

Transport Canada's ratings are even further off than the EPA's in real world usage.

 

I think they're on flat ground, no stops, accelerate like grandma and coast at exactly 95KM/h then come to a slow and gradual stop. Completely useless testing... They rate the Prius at like 70MPG which is ridiculousness.

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Transport Canada's ratings are even further off than the EPA's in real world usage.

 

I think they're on flat ground, no stops, accelerate like grandma and coast at exactly 95KM/h then come to a slow and gradual stop. Completely useless testing... They rate the Prius at like 70MPG which is ridiculousness.

 

Lol! Maybe that is why the EPA want to try a different approach with the Fusion now. Ford's new Fusion Hybrid threatens its competition standing boldly at the top of the MPG hill..that's bound to bring some attention in on what makes it so "good". Let's just hope the EPA validates Fords numbers with whatever test they choose to use to determine real-world mileage.

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Yeah i made a post about this last week and yeah most likely they will be audited...what the results of the test will be is the mystery now.

Yup, I think the update they just added is interesting too:
Although "Ford is in talks with the EPA", the automaker isn't discussing the validity of fuel economy claims for the C-Max Hybrid or Fusion Hybrid. Rather, Ford is talking to the EPA about updating fuel economy tests for all hybrids to make them more accurate: "[W]e agree with EPA that hybrids are far more variable in testing than conventional vehicles compared to real world driving so we’re addressing the industry issue."
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I think what most complainers do not understand is that EPA estimates are more for their relative values than their absolute values. There are far too many variables to predict what drivers will get in their own real world driving. The point is how different vehicles compare under the same conditions. Sure, the Fusion Hybrid is no lock to get 47, but neither is the Camry Hybrid a lock to get it's 41mpgs. At least the Fusion has a higher ceiling under the same conditions. The bottom line is that the Fusion will still be better than the Camry for almost everyone.

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Here is the results from my first commute to work this morning since I got the car last Saturday. 18.6 total miles, 11.1 ev miles, 0.8 regen miles, 44.3 mpg. The caveat is that i did take a 12 mile trip before work to the store, and stopped home for 10 minutes before going to work. There are quite a few hills on my commute. Roads were wet and some parts slushy. Temp around 32 with a breeze. Pretty satisfied given the temps, road conditions and low miles of the car.

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Here is the results from my first commute to work this morning since I got the car last Saturday. 18.6 total miles, 11.1 ev miles, 0.8 regen miles, 44.3 mpg. The caveat is that i did take a 12 mile trip before work to the store, and stopped home for 10 minutes before going to work. There are quite a few hills on my commute. Roads were wet and some parts slushy. Temp around 32 with a breeze. Pretty satisfied given the temps, road conditions and low miles of the car.

 

That's awesome! Do you have the 17" or 18" wheels?

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My wife has not been altering her driving habits and has been returning around 38 MPG. Without trying to hypermile I can get over 40 every time. If I pay moderate attention to my driving habits it is no problem to get 44-46 (as indicated by the fuel economy screens). My first fillup was just a hair under 44MPG calculating it myself. We got 487 miles out of our first 11.1 gal.

 

Highway mileage is not as good as I had hoped. Highway driving seems to kill my mileage regardless of speed or road. Having driven a few priuses (sic) I feel that it is a lot easier to make the fusion switch into EV mode. I can pull away from a stop and accelerate up to 30-35MPH in EV mode and I have been able to cruise at 61-62 in EV mode. Staying in EV mode and accelerating past 35 though seems impossible, but if I am cruising anywhere under 60MPH and not climbing a hill, all I have to do is let off the gas, wait a second or two then gently reapply and then I am in EV mode.

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