Jump to content

Ford reported to either kill Lincoln or make Lincoln Stang


Recommended Posts

Ford Insidenews and others reporting that Lincoln will build a Stang-based coupe in 2015, if MKZ and MKC are both successful. If these models fail, Lincoln is dead.

 

 

I don't think there is a lot of reliability to any of this. However, I wouldn't put it past Ford to decide that a couple of models which people aren't very enthused about have to sell well before they build a model that people actually want to buy.

Edited by TBirdStangSkyliner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting! Sounds somewhat flimsy at best and I wonder what their sources are?

 

It also sounds weak that the boardroom would've said this was the game plan coming out of the box. If so then perhaps they agreed to take a half-hearted approach before killing the brand off only to create a whole new luxury brand at a later date. I say this because Ford will not stay out of the luxury market and the Titanium trim levels are not going to cut it in place of a luxury line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TBirdStangSkyliner - do you have a link or e-mail address to this Ford Insidenews source? Ford is generally very judicious in disclosing (or not disclosing) information about future products; this particular announcement seems dubious to me.

Edited by aneekr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like a rehashing of second hand information...it was in one of the many Lincoln posts on the board...basically if the MKZ and MKC are successful, a Lincoln Coupe based on the Mustang is more likely then not...but no word of killing Lincoln if they are not...

 

Plus what is the metric that Ford is using to judge Lincoln is successful or not? Is it 50K sales or 100K sales, or some other number that they'll never disclose? So obviously this is bunch of BS...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is undoubtedly a RWD, likely Mustang-based, coupe in the plans at LMC; J Mays himself said that back in '06 or '07, when he also said that it was contingent on the success of the sedans. IIRC, the next Mustang is due in 2015, so positing a Lincoln variant around that time isn't exactly a stretch, but I would be surprised if it happened, regardless of the success of the MKC and MKZ, for two reasons:

 

1) A low-volume coupe, like a halo car, isn't what Lincoln needs right now. What they need are strong sellers that can feed money back into Lincoln, and those are (currently) sedans and CUVs, not coupes.

2) I don't think Lincoln has the resources to pull off a new coupe while they're revamping the MKS, Navigator, MKX, and whatever other postulated CUV is possibly in the works. Given that they're rolling out a single vehicle at a time, they may not have enough resources to do more than two overlapping projects at a time, and they can't sacrifice those vehicles for a theoretical coupe.

 

As for shuttering Lincoln if the MKZ and MKC flop, that seems highly unlikely. It's certainly a possibility if they fail spectacularly enough, but the current signs are that Ford is playing the long game with Lincoln, which means Ford's investment is remaining conservative enough that they can't fail that spectacularly. As long as Lincoln remains revenue-neutral to mildly profitable for Ford, they can continue to play small-ball indefinitely, just making base hits and building momentum.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

People don't want to buy a RWD Lincoln coupe. That is why Ford is not building one.

 

They want to buy luxury sedans and crossovers. That is why Ford is building them.

4 door coupe if anything IMO, rwd 5.0 V8 .....say hello to the MKR.......halo....
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, BMW, and Jaguar all find coupes worthwhile to keep in their lineups. Ignoring this is...well, embracing ignorance.

 

As for what people want, the responses on Facebook and elsewhere bring up a luxury coupe/convertible with utter and dominant consistency. In fact, RWD is asked for in general with even more consistency.

 

The excitement over previous Ford and Lincoln RWD concepts was always huge. The Interceptor, the retro Continental...huge responses. In short, this isn't new. Many people have asked for RWD Lincolns to return, and coupes among them.

 

The way I see it, the vehicle would be be released as a "4 door coupe", just because Lincoln needs a certain degree of utility to keep sales up. Big power, big room, and rwd would all be mandatory, because those are three consistencies Lincoln can hold onto that work well with most customers.

 

As for the possible shuttering...more and more recent articles point toward Alan Mullaly willing to axe anything and everything to protect the Ford brand. Lincoln has been on a brutal death watch for some time, now...and yes, far beyond the stuff I've posted. The brand's withering sales over the years have put it in very deep trouble, and if the Mustang alone can sell almost as many units as the Lincoln lineup...it makes sense that some of that mechanical charisma would be seen as possible assistance to Lincoln IF the brand is pulling itself up toward relevance again.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What people say they want and what they actually buy are 2 different things. Expensive RWD coupes simply don't sell very well so it's difficult to make a business case for U.S. only sales. The Germans sell theirs worldwide which helps with volume.

 

Lincoln could build one but not at the expense of other more profitable vehicles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it reportedly won't get built unless the MKZ and MKC (MKD?) get sales numbers up...and as for profitable, there would be a great deal of shared tech with the Mustang, which costs about the same as the Fusion...so a personal coupe costing about the same as a loaded MKZ would potentially offer a similar profit, especially if the forthcoming RWD architecture is getting additional use with Mustang Exports and possible consolidation with Australia's Falcon program.

 

I think denying the huge request for YEARS for new rwd Lincoln products would be true suicide for the brand.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But personally, I think this is all wishful internet thinking,

Ford does not tenatively approve developemnt of anything, they have seven Lincoln vehicles to deliver in a four year period,

proirity dictates they be MKZ, new MKC Utility, new MKX, new MKS, new Navigator, Aviator replacement for MKT, so that means

one other vehicle spot left...

If there is a Lincoln based Mustang planned, it will be low proirity compared to other products and not here before 2015.

A Lincoln compact car, based on a mustang coupe would sure put the willies up the ATS at a fraction of the development price with better engines to boot..

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why does this make ANY sense for Lincoln?  

 

Is it because they can?  Because it's RWD and it's better than nothing?

 

Nobody is going to buy this, nobody.  It's not even AWD, a must in this business.  Not only that, it's such a prominent aberration in the Lincoln lineup and customer base that it further highlights the Ford link.  "Ah, it's that Lincoln Mustang thing!"  Therefore, the story is unbelievable.

 

As for the MKZ and MKC being their last chance....MKX and MKS are also in the queue so that makes no sense either.  And the MKC won't have trouble selling, without seeing it I know it will be a massive success since the segment is under-serviced and ripe for takeover.  I just wish they had moved much quicker on it because Lexus will get in there first.I'm not so sure about the MKZ, it's a great looking and gimmicky car, but it's also inadequate in many areas and it's seeking a customer that is otherwise very practical (and older).

Edited by BORG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of the aciduous attacks on the new MKZ are coming from non-buyers who seem bent to convince others that this is some form of

fraudulent high series Ford thinly disguised. While we have to suffer these constant noisy piffling attacks, I'm glad to know that:

- The MKZ matches and exceeds rival Lexus ES

- Lincoln has a class leading hybrid and plug in version on the way..

- Seven new or improved Lincoln vehicles are planned for delivery over the next few years.

 

A compact coupe for Lincoln really is not a high priority, I really doubt Ford is in any way

considering that ahead of at least five other vehicles that have much higher justification.....

 

I hate to say it but i think FIN may be listening to people giulty of wishful thinking with a RWD agenda.

This to me sounds like the RWD Lincoln rumor that went round and round the forums around three years ago..

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Ford came out and scotched the whole thing as a work of fiction..

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The expense required to adapt the floorpan, safety cage/greenhouse, firewall, and rear subframe for use in a Lincoln, along with all of the unique body stampings will be borne entirely by Lincoln.

 

If you figure the cost of differentiating from a Mustang will be greater than differentiating from the Fusion (which shares the floorpan, firewall, rear subframe, safety cage), and the volumes less than the MKZ, then you see exactly where the problem lies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The expense required to adapt the floorpan, safety cage/greenhouse, firewall, and rear subframe for use in a Lincoln, along with all of the unique body stampings will be borne entirely by Lincoln.

 

If you figure the cost of differentiating from a Mustang will be greater than differentiating from the Fusion (which shares the floorpan, firewall, rear subframe, safety cage), and the volumes less than the MKZ, then you see exactly where the problem lies.

I just don't see this as a high priority, I think Ford could do better making more use of the money elsewhere..

 

Compact utility Lincoln should be a roaring success, I pray they also make room for a compact hybrid too...

Edited by jpd80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Lincoln's approach thus far has their sales low enough to make something beyond re-working fwd/awd Fords attractive...as something has to change for improvement to happen.

 

The whole namby-pamby "safe volume vechicles" bit dug Lincoln into the pit of perceived mediocrity and sales dearth they're in. Just facts. If it works so well, where are the buyers?

 

Oops, that was likely mean or something.

 

For years, we've seen moves against "halo cars" and class-leaders that are actually exciting spin the brand around the drain. Yes, they have more resources now and yes, they're getting a big-maybe final-push from the Dearborn offices...but at the same time, no amount of same-old can be seen as a solution.

 

They may find it worthwhile to gamble slightly on a "halo" vehicle in the name of brand excitement. The Mustang's presence in Ford's lineup matters far further than Mustang buyers. It helps the whole brand's view in the public eye...which is why so many Mustang ads run while the car sells only modestly to decently.

 

The MKR was a Lincoln concept, RWD, that got a ton of interest from buyers and press alike. If Lincoln can wrest the sales needed from fairly "conventional" models like the MKZ/MKC...the brand could then use a "driver's car" model to bounce perception higher. If this doesn't work, why has Mercedes been advertising their C-class coupe so hard? Why is Lexus working on sports models? Why does Cadillac even bother making the "V"?

 

Performance and excitement are half of the "sports/luxury" model that is overlaid on the whole upper-end market. Not one luxury brand I can think of exists without implied performance/excitement. What I CAN'T understand is opposition to the idea of Lincoln actually doing a performance model again. During their much higher-sales periods, Mark VIIIs got a lot of ads despite other models being the volume sellers.

 

This is not new, and it shouldn't be alarming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What I CAN'T understand is opposition to the idea of Lincoln actually doing a performance model again. During their much higher-sales periods, Mark VIIIs got a lot of ads despite other models being the volume sellers.

 

 

I don’t see it as opposition as much as I see it a priority issue. Plenty of people here agree that it would be “nice” to have a halo car, or a RWD coupe (myself included) but I still think Lincoln's situation calls for patients. The dedicated effort is still new given the development time required for automobiles.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...