Ford reported to either kill Lincoln or make Lincoln Stang

[jpd80]

Has an energi model been announced? This post is the first I've seen referencing a plug-in Lincoln. Should make Neil Young happy.

Hmm, could have sworn I saw an announcement but clearly nothing official out there...

Maybe the numbers don't stack up. but would be smart incremental product..

[akirby]

The whole namby-pamby "safe volume vechicles" bit dug Lincoln into the pit of perceived mediocrity and sales dearth they're in. Just facts. If it works so well, where are the buyers?

 

The difference is the previous crop of "volume vehicles" aren't good enough. They look too much like their Ford counterparts and don't offer enough differentiation. If the new ones don't offer this differentiation then they too will be doomed to mediocre sales. Thankfully that's not the plan and the new "volume vehicles" will be even more different than the MKZ and that's why they can be way more successful.

[NLPRacing]

4 door coupe if anything IMO, rwd 5.0 V8 .....say hello to the MKR.......halo....

 

It's not nice to tease!

[RichardJensen]

I've already said my piece. The idea that Lincoln needs a niche product to increase sales volume is, on its face, contradictory.

[BORG]

I'm a Lincoln customer and could imagine myself buying any car they make, now or future (even MKT). However, I would never buy a RWD-only Mustang-based coupe.

 

Lincoln still needs to flesh out it's Crossover lineup, the MKC and MKExplorer are significantly more important, the MKC could easily become their bestseller and change the tide for the brand. Not to mention the very (well) aged MKX is due. Within 3 years Lincoln will have a solid crossover lineup and that's really the most important factor for me, I couldn't care less about a RWD anything and only non-customers care about such a car.

Edited December 29, 2012 by BORG

[BrewfanGRB]

Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti, BMW, and Jaguar all find coupes worthwhile to keep in their lineups. Ignoring this is...well, embracing ignorance.

 

As for what people want, the responses on Facebook and elsewhere bring up a luxury coupe/convertible with utter and dominant consistency. In fact, RWD is asked for in general with even more consistency.

 

Come on. You didn't just seriously use rabble rabble on Facebook from yahoos as evidence of pent-up demand of a product, did you? The same place where people incessantly demand "dislike buttons", share photos of 'shopped Powerball tickets with a promise to share $1M and bitch about their in-laws? You know, I complain about county highway department in the winter and post funny Family Guy quotes as my status. I also "like" Ketel One vodka. It doesn't mean me saying "Gee, you know what'd be nice? A Lincoln Mustang!" should be taken seriously.

Edited December 29, 2012 by BrewfanGRB

[jpd80]

My Line up would match a Utility with the next size up sedan:

1. MKC & MKZ = $36K starting price (C1 & CD4)

2. MKX & MKS = $42K starting price (CD4)

3. LWB Aviator & LWB Town Car(= MKT w/ trunk) =$46K starting price (D3)

4. Lincoln Navigator - $57K starting price (6.7 V8 diesel option)

 

That in my opinion is the best product envelope going forward and probably achieves the kind of customer spread Lincoln needs.

 

Lincoln needs to and be several things at the one time, to focus on just one area alone is to completely miss the whole luxury market.

there could be surprisingly strong sales at the bottom end of the range as well as quite a few customers overlooked in the middle of the pack too.

Let Navigator become the civilized "hummer" with a huge diesel, great performance and impressive economy.

Edited December 30, 2012 by jpd80

[2b2]

^ very interesting pricelist, Jpd

(swipe)

& those are 'my' 7 models for circa Jan1,2015, too!!

(actually I've seen an amazing amount of consensus web-wide about them)

 

 

I'm a Lincoln customer and could imagine myself buying any car they make, now or future (even MKT). However, I would never buy a RWD-only Mustang-based coupe...

...I couldn't care less about a RWD anything and only non-customers care about such a car.

I'm a non-customer but I've been semi-ranting that all Lincolns, incldg the RWDs, could benefit from being variously electrified (barely-'assist' thru full hybrid)...

[2b2]

^ very interesting pricelist, Jpd

(swipe)

& those are 'my' 7 models for circa Jan1,2015, too!!

(actually I've seen an amazing amount of consensus web-wide for them)

 

I'm a Lincoln customer and could imagine myself buying any car they make, now or future (even MKT). However, I would never buy a RWD-only Mustang-based coupe...

...I couldn't care less about a RWD anything and only non-customers care about such a car.

 

I'm a non-customer but have been semi-ranting that all Lincolns, incldg/esp the RWDs, could benefit frombeing variously electrified (barely'assist' thro full hybrid)...

[Hugh]

Come on. You didn't just seriously use rabble rabble on Facebook from yahoos as evidence of pent-up demand of a product, did you? The same place where people incessantly demand "dislike buttons", share photos of 'shopped Powerball tickets with a promise to share $1M and bitch about their in-laws? You know, I complain about county highway department in the winter and post funny Family Guy quotes as my status. I also "like" Ketel One vodka. It doesn't mean me saying "Gee, you know what'd be nice? A Lincoln Mustang!" should be taken seriously.

POTW!

[robertlane]

LMAO......I hope no one actually believes this Crap.

 

Bingo.

[ANTAUS]

Differentiating a vehicle doesn't always solve a sales issue. Flex = MKT I think the MKT team should have fire, and the "Lets turn the MKT into a livery vehicle" team be deported.

 

And then you have the opposite senario where GM can take a lowly Cruze and with minimal efforts Buickinize (Verano)and it's actually selling well.

 

I try not to read too much into those stories, if they are rumors or speculations, but reading between the lines it looks like "its not enough" that is being cried out...And when the media starts conveying that message, there's a problem.

[akirby]

Differentiating a Lincoln from a Ford that shares the same platform is VITAL to Lincolns long term success. But the styling has to be awesome or it won't matter. The people who cry about Lincoln being rebadged Fords or "not good enough" are not the target buyers.

[SoonerLS]

What people say they want and what they actually buy are 2 different things.

As a mutual friend of ours once said, a smart company doesn't listen to what its customers say they want, it figures out what they actually want.

[saintlaz1]

I'm so sick of people stating that coupes don't sell and people don't want them this is bs! Most Americans are brain washed into thinking they need four doors or an SUV. This happen sometime in the 90s and not sure what has change, families havent gotten bigger, people are not living in more flood zones, people are not hauling more items; Prime examples are these suburban families with thier one child in a minivan or SUV get the f overself you don't haul anything!

 

There was a time almost every car was available as a coupe and station wagon, I'm glad that Cadillac is not shying away from this and have brought this idea back.

[twintornados]

For Lincoln to have a viable coupe, they simply cannot just use a Mustang chassis or it will always be labeled just another "tarted up Ford". The chassis must be unique in the same way the Ford GT was like nothing else in the line. It can be done, but now is not the time for it....Lincoln needs to continue on the path it is on and let the new product define the presence of Lincoln. After that happens, then Lincoln can look at building a car of that magnitude.

[Hugh]

Up here, my experience is no one will buy a full-size car but will buy a full-size truck for personal use except to haul a boat or trailer in the summer and move some gear in the winter. That said, I am glad there's a choice and until the market changes or as said folks 'get over themselves' that's not going to change.

OTOH, I don't see the need for compact (B and C segment) coupes because IMHO, folks were brain-washed by companies saving a few pennies by offering a pass-through in the trunk and saying they don't need a hatchback. If there's a case for a Coupe, I think C/D segment is the sweet spot here in NA. I have no issues with wagons personally with the exception of load/unload from a C segment SUV/CUV is easier body dynamic wise then say a C segment wagon.

Again, if the company can figure out and sell what folks actually want, there would be a case.

[Hugh]

IIRC, VW group will spend around $16 Billion for Audi to take on BWW for let's call it 'Total World Domination!'

I am of the opinion that VW group in the search for number one has to be bleeding in the VW and lower brands to keep the hi-end (Audi, Bentley and Porsche) afloat. Even if it is an acceptable loss for long-term gain, I don't think Ford will choose that philosophy. If Ford loses profit-margin or any loss of brand power for Lincoln is not in the cards at least for the next 3 years. Just my 2 cents.

[silvrsvt]

I'm so sick of people stating that coupes don't sell and people don't want them this is bs! Most Americans are brain washed into thinking they need four doors or an SUV.

 

Coupes where popular in the 70s and into the 1980....so what happened?

 

As for the popularity of CUV/SUV's or even trucks...People like the high seating position on them, the ability to carry large items that wouldn't fit into a sedan or wagon or hatchback, The higher ride height if it snows, so on and so forth...but what it boils down to is that 4 door cars are naturally more flexible then a 2 door car...

 

As for Caddy doing a Coupe and a Wagon...how are they selling? I haven't seen a break out of them in CTS sales, but given how few of them I see...well I don't expect them to be selling that well

[jasonj80]

IIRC, VW group will spend around $16 Billion for Audi to take on BWW for let's call it 'Total World Domination!'

I am of the opinion that VW group in the search for number one has to be bleeding in the VW and lower brands to keep the hi-end (Audi, Bentley and Porsche) afloat. Even if it is an acceptable loss for long-term gain, I don't think Ford will choose that philosophy. If Ford loses profit-margin or any loss of brand power for Lincoln is not in the cards at least for the next 3 years. Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Though totally off thread but I feel that by the end of the decade VW is going to be in the mist of a combined GM implosion of the late 70's, early 90's and mid 00's all at once. You can't sustain their business model -- it doesn't work, it is GM all over again.

 

Lincoln needs to work its SUV line up over the next 18 months. I still wonder what Ford's launch schedule is going to be for the 2015MY - they have a ton of product coming out, both on the Lincoln and Ford side.

Edited December 30, 2012 by jasonj80

[sullynd]

Isn't the CTS wagon being discontinued, and the coupe not surviving the next refresh?

[Hugh]

Though totally off thread but I feel that by the end of the decade VW is going to be in the mist of a combined GM implosion of the late 70's, early 90's and mid 00's all at once. You can't sustain their business model -- it doesn't work, it is GM all over again.

 

Lincoln needs to work its SUV line up over the next 18 months. I still wonder what Ford's launch schedule is going to be for the 2015MY - they have a ton of product coming out, both on the Lincoln and Ford side.

Two things: I can see the GM similarity that you have spoken of. Being number one for the sake of being number one is foolish when you are not profitable. I think and I have to check refs. but VW hasn't shown a lassez-faire in getting into markets and sales. It's been a strategic model with ups and downs and reinventions. I haven't a clue what GM is doing or going so I can't comment except I ask 'Why Buick?'. Invest that into Chevrolet and Cadillac and sounds like a win but perhaps they are too big and too complex to fail or just so naive or cunning that they will use the sheer mass to remain afloat on government time and money. It stinks to think that if GM goes down, Ford will go down because of supplier loss. I really don't know. I think Ford knows that and is hopefully finding a way to not have that weight on them.

 

Second and on topic: IAW the briefing note from LMC at LAIAS: It was 4 new vehicles in 4 years and MKZ is the first. You can draw your own conclusions.

 

Here's a personal anecdote on my drive in my Mother-in-Law's BMW 335i coupe.

 

The drive of the twin-turbo RWD and the comfort and features and everything was amazing! A beautiful machine. Now, the plastic on the rear seats to prevent scuffing for embark/disembark makes sense. The leather seats, the centre consoles and storage bins with covers are the same as the ones I saw in a M/B C250 I saw at the airport. I assume the same supplier. The plastic finish for the sides, doors and dash: 2011 Ford Fiesta with different pattern. Now, the bins open and close under control and are very smooth showing no flex but the front cup holders aren't that practical but pretty trick how they deploy. When you close the door, the front seat belts will deploy a holder from the back to help you grab it and put on your belt. That's practical luxury IMO. The owners manual was thick and long but a minute reading the commands for iDrive made using the system easy. That said, my beloved lost Fiesta had a Quick reference guide which was easy to use and no issues getting acquainted with the car.

 

My point is Lincoln can do little details like that and show them off. Lincoln exclusives to separate from the Ford as well as the other things previously mentioned will help Lincoln.

[SoonerLS]

I'm so sick of people stating that coupes don't sell and people don't want them this is bs!

Then show numbers that refute it. Ford has four models that each handily outsell the combined sales of the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger, and the Mustang is outsold by seven of its Ford brethren.

get the f overself

That's good advice, and you should take it. As long as you're not paying for their vehicles and insurance, WTF do you care what anyone else chooses to buy?

[RichardJensen]

VW hasn't shown a lassez-faire in getting into markets

I'd suggest that you read VW's 2011 annual report and take note of the contribution that exchange rate adjustments made to the company's bottom line.

[jpd80]

I'd suggest that you read VW's 2011 annual report and take note of the contribution that exchange rate adjustments made to the company's bottom line.

Now I have a feeling that if that item and also the profit contributed by Audi were subtracted,

the rest of the VW group earnings would look pretty ordinary.....