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Ford reported to either kill Lincoln or make Lincoln Stang


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I've seen people wanting new, exciting, RWD Lincolns for years. All of the cool concepts got massive interest, and even if social media is to be just ignored (despite the clear and consistent calls for RWD and halo vehicles always found there...ALWAYS), Lincoln faces those questions form essentially every automotive scribe, analyst, or related talking/blogging head out there. THIS IS NOT NEW. Lincoln's moves to fwd-based vehicles along with the death of their rwd offerings have strangely coincided with the falling sales.

 

I'm not creating anything, but instead repeating requests and hopes that have been around forever. With Lincoln needing to shake its image of the recent past, why repeat it? A thicker layer of better lipstick, so to speak, will help some-especially if the Fords providing the mechanical bits continue to be very good-but with so many eyes on what's seen to be a reeling company right now, real change will be needed to make a real improvement to perception.

 

If there was no logic to a specialty car, Lexus would never have bothered with "F" cars, there would be no "R" Audis, no "M" BMWs, no AMG...but those models help bring interest to the rest of the line. Maybe the "Black Label" Lincolns will be their response.

 

As long as the MKZ and upcoming models/updates do what's required, I'd actually bet on seeing something a bit more bold coming from Lincoln's new design center.

 

I agree I'd like to see Lincoln have some sort of coupe/sporty car at some point, but as akirby was getting at - think of where those brands have been when launching those products - lets look at Lexus and Audi more specifically, since their entrants into this market are relatively new. Those brands are both healthy and established and were when they began offering "F" cars and "R" models. Now look at Lincoln - the brand is damaged with a mediocre lineup. What good does a halo car do now? Sure it brings attention to the brand, but if customers come into the showroom and see a mediocre lineup, what good does it do to have the halo car there to bring customers in? Strengthen and redo the core lineup and once that's done, THEN explore a halo product.

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="akirby" data-cid="822510" data-time="1356937013"><p>

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So obviously what Ford needs to build is an expensive RWD diesel powered coupe station wagon that laps the 'Ring in 7:00 flat because that's what EVERYBODY says they should build.<br />

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Only 5 people would actually buy one but just think of all the bench races it will win and all the kudos from the enthusiasts and media.<br />

<br />

Some of you people need to learn how to read sales charts.</p></blockquote>

I think you nailed it except fo the "expensive" part. .001 seconds after ANYTHING is revealed the whining about price starts. "Why isn't the fiesta unker $10K?" "Why is the Focus over $13K?" "How can you compete with a Fusion over $20K?" "Who the hell wants to buy a $35K Explorer?" And so on.

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I don't have numbers, the reason I don't because automakers simply just don't make enough coupes to give people a variety.
And you don't see the cause/effect relationship there? It's not like everybody was buying coupes and the mean ol' manufacturers said "screw you, you babies, we don't want to make coupes any more!" People stopped buying coupes, so manufacturers stopped making them.
I care for what people drive because this affects what automakers make.
So, it's OK for you to drive what you want, but it's not OK for anyone whose choices aren't the same as yours?
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Being that Ford has been developing what is supposed to be an all new Mustang, I would hope they have involved Lincoln people in the development of the platform so that flexibility for things that Lincoln might want could be baked into the design. It may not be the priority car that Lincoln needs right now, but it is what Ford is working on now. It would be a shame if they decided to wait and then at a later date try to cobble together a Lincoln version.

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So obviously what Ford needs to build is an expensive RWD diesel powered coupe station wagon that laps the 'Ring in 7:00 flat because that's what EVERYBODY says they should build.

 

Only 5 people would actually buy one but just think of all the bench races it will win and all the kudos from the enthusiasts and media.

 

Some of you people need to learn how to read sales charts.

I didnt say that, I was backing up a comment of another poster. Some of you need to not get so emotional and not jump on every comment that disagrees with your opinion.

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They're so popular that only Honda and Nissan are making them. Yeah, that's not a dying market...

And routinely for years, its always been 2-3 manufacture's that have gone back and fourth offering a 2 door variety. And now we see one size class smaller offering the same (in a price class that the previous midsize coupes) would sell in and I'm sure with more profits... doesn't look so dead now does it...

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And routinely for years, its always been 2-3 manufacture's that have gone back and fourth offering a 2 door variety. And now we see one size class smaller offering the same (in a price class that the previous midsize coupes) would sell in and I'm sure with more profits... doesn't look so dead now does it...

 

Why do you think the mfrs keep going back and forth on FWD midsized coupes? Because THEY DON'T SELL that well. They never have. If they did then everyone would have one like they do now with midsized sedans. In the C class they sell far more hatchbacks than coupes.

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I lot of interesting points by many of the posters here...two points for me are salient but somehow contradicting. As one poster mentioned, the mustang is set to outpace sales of the entire lincoln line-up; however, the market is so small in the luxury coupe segment! I heard former prod development VP Derek K reply as recently as the 1st quarter, during a Q&A session after the earnings annoucement, that Lincoln is not considering entering into this segement because the market is not large enough.

 

A lot of the speculation has been fueled by media outlets. Two weeks ago when Lincoln announced the new ad campaign and released a couple of teaser promotional videos on-line, viewers were given a brief glimpse of what appeared to be a mustang chassis during a scene in a manufaturing plant. This seemed to have stoke the fire. I had a conversation with a finance colleague who is working on the lincoln product cycle for the next five years. He divulged quite a bit of confidential information to me, but a rear wheel drive coupe was not mentioned. He seemed eager to share lincoln news and I think he would have mentioned confirmed this rumor had it been true.

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Pony car is a unique segment all to itself.

 

Yes, but there are signs that it is changing, as new generations buy.

 

IMHO, the "Pony car" is a lot more sophisticated today, especially with chassis dynamics and design. The cost range is also greater, from a V-6 no-frills Mustang to a glass-roof GT to a full-load 200 mph Shelby. The Camaro and Challenger have IRS, as will the next Mustang, so the solid axle drag-race part of Pony car is now irrelevant. The only iron-block is the Hemi option, in the Challenger.

 

As well, the A-5 and the new 4-series BMW coupes (the 4 replaces the 3 coupe) have grown so that they are really high-end Pony cars. The old rubber-mat notch-back 5.0 Mustang buyer is now a WRX wannabe with some kind of rice-burner. :)

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Yes, but there are signs that it is changing, as new generations buy.

 

IMHO, the "Pony car" is a lot more sophisticated today, especially with chassis dynamics and design. The cost range is also greater, from a V-6 no-frills Mustang to a glass-roof GT to a full-load 200 mph Shelby. The Camaro and Challenger have IRS, as will the next Mustang, so the solid axle drag-race part of Pony car is now irrelevant. The only iron-block is the Hemi option, in the Challenger.

 

As well, the A-5 and the new 4-series BMW coupes (the 4 replaces the 3 coupe) have grown so that they are really high-end Pony cars. The old rubber-mat notch-back 5.0 Mustang buyer is now a WRX wannabe with some kind of rice-burner. :)

Now, the only change from 3 to 4 is the name IMHO. ;) I think if more of a case for a V6 Mustang as a 'Sports Car' opposed as a 'cheap pony' will show the reason why there is not a Fusion coupe at present. I think the budget doesn't have it. The new Mustang will answer a lot of questions. From Fiesta and Focus ST to Mustang V6 to GT 500 and Taurus SHO = a full lineup of good cars just for starters :)

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Yes, but there are signs that it is changing, as new generations buy.

What the buyers are expecting from all cars is changing, but the Pony Car segment itself isn't really changing. When the Mustang was the lone car in the segment, it sold 160K units in a decent year. When GM and Chrysler added worthy competitors in the Camaro and Challenger the market didn't skyrocket, it increased by ~25% and stayed there. A 25% increase sounds good, but what really happened is that Ford and GM split the meat of the market, and tail-end Charlie Chrysler caught the leftovers--none of them are even coming close to what the Mustang was selling in a bad year when it owned the segment.

Edited by SoonerLS
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You mean, like "luxury sport coupe" is, as well?
Then. let's spread it out a bit: "dynamic driver's car". That's a bigger segment, lots of potential definitions, but the most memorable and the best ones for brand perception (silly me, coming back to that time and again) require going beyond re-dressing a Camry, Accord, or Fusion...and if possible, having more "dynamic" bones underneath to start with.

I still can't understand opposition to a single, exciting Lincoln that shows more attitude and confidence. They have a stable full of "safe volume models" that are expected to bring the brand's sales up...so why not go after the buyers that normally wouldn't give Lincoln a second glance? That's pretty much the definition of growing the business...right?

Pony car is a unique segment all to itself.
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The new 4 Series: the front track is around 40mm wider (about 2") and the rear track is 80mm wider, or just over 3". If you want small, it'll have to be a 135.

2 and 3 " is not difficult to achive with existing equipment. :) I agree with the 1-Series, My friend has one, a wee small especially the coupe.

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I still can't understand opposition to a single, exciting Lincoln that shows more attitude and confidence.

 

why not go after the buyers that normally wouldn't give Lincoln a second glance? That's pretty much the definition of growing the business...right?

1: Cost. Further, what evidence have you that sales of the Lexus RX are boosted by the, say, presence of the short-lived LF, or the whatever-their-initial is 'sports' series? Or their coupe (now dead).

 

2: Why not go after them? Because you won't get them and you don't need them. You grow the business by attracting customers 'adjacent' to your existing customers.

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...but if the problem is a company seen as stodgy and over-conservative, more of the same doesn't fix the image, which fails to fix the sales. Dramatic product that garners notice and gets words like "bold", "exciting", and "new direction" would be a great benefit to a company whose "core, volume products" approach has basically failed.

If Lincoln fights this hard to find 100,000 buyers per year, "conservative" didn't get the job done.

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...but if the problem is a company seen as stodgy and over-conservative

 

The problem is not enough customers.

 

The solution? Get more customers.

 

I know that sounds tautological, but follow me on this:

 

You've got customers that buy your product: view them as a group of people with at least one thing in common: They all bought your product.

 

Now, what other things do they have in common?

 

Say that there's a significant minority that also collectively:

 

- Take off-the-beaten path vacations. Everyone else is going to Napa Valley, they're touring the Washington Wine Country instead.

 

- Live in exurbs

 

- Own their own businesses

 

- Watch Downton Abbey, without realizing that it's Edwardian Dallas.

 

Your next step, roughly: Figure out how big this market is. How many people in the US fit this demographic? (mind you, I'm simplifying here)

 

Let's assume that the market is big enough for your company to target.

 

Okay, next step: How much of this market are you already serving?

 

- If it's a significant portion, then great. You need to figure out 1) why they're buying your product and continue doing that and 2) figure out how you can leverage from that group out to say, the group that is just like them except, perhaps, they're professionals instead of entrepreneurs. What do you need to do differently to draw in a professional?

 

- If it's a small portion, then you need to figure out 1) Why your existing customers in that demographic are buying your products, and 2) whether enhancing those 'value-adds' will bring in more customers from that demographic.

 

--------

 

The thing about performance is that it is a very small portion of the overall buying matrix. Ditto design. Design is more important than performance, but even so, it is only one of many factors that influence the purchasing decision.

 

AND (and this is the big AND that Ford has discovered):

 

If your customers and your target customers do not care what Car & Driver says about your product, then it is counterproductive for you to care what C&D says.

 

In a pluralistic buyer-driven marketplace, the manufacturer succeeds when they match output to customer preference.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Essentially every luxury maker out there right now boosts their brand perception with some kind of "sport" approach. BMW touts their own record. Audi has benchmarked BMW, and is spending $17B to overtake them (according to Autoblog this morning). Benz is doing Miata-esque commercials for the C-class. Lexus built a supercar, and created the F cars...etc.

Even if performance is a small market, the perception of performance seems to draw people into dealerships...other dealerships. Perhaps "more customers" could be found among them?

And no, I didn't quite Car and Driver on ANY of that.


The thing about performance is that it is a very small portion of the overall buying matrix. Ditto design. Design is more important than performance, but even so, it is only one of many factors that influence the purchasing decision.

 

AND (and this is the big AND that Ford has discovered):

 

If your customers and your target customers do not care what Car & Driver says about your product, then it is counterproductive for you to care what C&D says.

 

In a pluralistic buyer-driven marketplace, the manufacturer succeeds when they match output to customer preference.

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