Pre-Order vs Dealer Order - 2013 MKZ

[MicKeyZ]

I've been lurking here for a bit and have some questions that hopefully the forum might answer.

 

Several people have discussed their anguished wait for delivery so I wanted to know in retrospect...Do you wish you had waited for dealer stock instead of pre-ordered? I have considered pre-ordering but I'm afraid I won't like it in the color I'm considering and don't want to be obligated (I think I want Ginger Ale - And, yes, yes I already know that most people hate it, think it looks like puke, wonder WTF Ford was smoking, etc. etc.). I don't trust the colors shown on the Lincoln website because I've seen how widely they can vary from the real thing. For example, take a look at their representation of Ice Storm and then look at some actual photographs of Ice Storm Fusions. Also, sometimes colors just don't look right on certain models.

 

Once you pre-order, are you locked into that vehicle? Do you have to put down a deposit? Are you basically just paying what the price configurator shows or are there markups or mark downs?

 

If I don't pre-order, am I destined to wait until Summer or Fall until a build shows up somewhere in the vicinity that matches my requirements?

 

If you are going to pre-order, is it better to do so from a dealer with few pre-orders or one with a whole bunch already?

 

I'm very confused at this point

 

TIA

[akirby]

You're usually not obligated to purchase the vehicle you order but it depends on the specific contract you sign and the vehicle you're ordering. Whether the dealer requires a deposit or not is up to the dealer - some do and some don't.

 

I don't know anybody that pays MSRP outside of a few very rare high demand vehicles. $200 - $1000 over dealer invoice is typical.

 

It may take a couple of months for the dealers to get inventory. You can use dealerconnection.com to find the dealers in your area and search their inventory to see if they have what you're looking for in stock or on order.

 

It's usually better to order from a larger dealer since they will have more allocation. But it depends on how many other orders are in queue. If a dealer has 25 orders but only allocation for 20 and another dealer has 3 orders but allocation for 5 then the smaller dealer is better, but you have no way to know that. Special orders take precedence over dealer stock at all dealers.

[MicKeyZ]

Thanks for your answers. I'm not quite sure what you meant by

 

Special orders take precedence over dealer stock at all dealers.

 

Are you saying my pre-order would be built before some generic dealer order? I seem to remember reading where people were complaining that their pre-orders were sitting behind some of the dealer orders. That was one of the reasons I hesitate to pre-order for fear of an acceptable car sitting on a dealer's lot somewhere while I'm impatiently waiting months for my car to arrive.

 

I've looked through dealer ordered lists for most of the dealers in my general area and no one has what I want. At this point, no one is even ordering that color for any of the engines. Someone posted a status sheet on a website (which I can now no longer locate) that says Ginger Ale wasn't going to be available until some time in February. I don't know enough about the process to determine if no one is ordering it because it isn't yet available or it's not available because no one (besides me, apparently) wants it on the MKZ. Just a quick zoom through Cars.com shows that 445 Year 2013 Fusions in Ginger Ale are available (when the location is set to "All") so I know the color is being made. There were also 48 MKS' with the color so it's not a Lincoln thing.

[akirby]

Are you saying my pre-order would be built before some generic dealer order? I seem to remember reading where people were complaining that their pre-orders were sitting behind some of the dealer orders. That was one of the reasons I hesitate to pre-order for fear of an acceptable car sitting on a dealer's lot somewhere while I'm impatiently waiting months for my car to arrive.

 

I don't know enough about the process to determine if no one is ordering it because it isn't yet available or it's not available because no one (besides me, apparently) wants it on the MKZ.

 

Don't confuse "pre-orders" with regular orders. Pre-orders were taken before they started making the MKZ. Anything ordered now is a regular order.

 

When Ford first starts making a new model, they hold every car built for inspection until they can build 5 days in a row without a defect. Once they hit the 5 day mark they give the "OK to buy" order and all cars from that point on are shipped directly from the assembly line. At this point they go back to all those cars they built first, fix them if necessary and then ship them out.

 

If a pre-order was built first it could get stuck in this holding cell for weeks waiting for it to be fixed and shipped, so Ford only allows dealer orders to be built during this time. Once the OK to buy has been given all of the retail orders are scheduled and built. So it's possible for one of those early build dealer orders to show up before a pre-order. Once they're in regular production, they give allocation to each dealer each week depending on what they've sold recently. When a dealer gets allocation, their vehicles are built in order of priority (lowest first). Retail orders must be 10-19 while dealer stock is 20-99. So under normal production retail orders get built before dealer stock.

[akirby]

And yes - Ginger Ale will be a rare color but I'm sure you could find a few in stock somewhere once inventory levels stabilize.

If it's late availability there is a technical reason for it - has nothing to do with initial demand.

[xgman]

Unless you are in hurry like I am for instance, I would wait. I am 100% convinced that here is trouble in the build that we aren't being told about. The dealer orders are being held for multiple weeks and re-checked and the pr-orders keep getting delayed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there are problems.

[MicKeyZ]

Don't confuse "pre-orders" with regular orders. Pre-orders were taken before they started making the MKZ. Anything ordered now is a regular order.

 

Thank you for clarifying. I did misundersand those terms but now the stuff I previously read makes a lot more sense.

 

 

Unless you are in hurry like I am for instance, I would wait. I am 100% convinced that here is trouble in the build that we aren't being told about. The dealer orders are being held for multiple weeks and re-checked and the pr-orders keep getting delayed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out there are problems

I am in a hurry so that's why I wanted to know which is likely to arrive first: Dealer stock on an unusual color and build combination (Fully loaded hybrid sans panoramic roof in Ginger Ale) or just order my preferred configuration.

.

[timf]

If you want a hybrid, I would highly suggest ordering. A survey of early dealer stock orders shows extremely few hybrids on order, so the odds of finding the combination of color and features you want in a hybrid are miniscule. Remember that even after you place an order you can still look for stock models that come in first, and if one meets your criteria you can buy that one instead of your special order.

[xgman]

There was a problem in the ginger ale color listed on one of the sites, and they recommended ordering a different color, however, it was said to be cleared in February sometime.

[MicKeyZ]

If you want a hybrid, I would highly suggest ordering. A survey of early dealer stock orders shows extremely few hybrids on order, so the odds of finding the combination of color and features you want in a hybrid are miniscule. Remember that even after you place an order you can still look for stock models that come in first, and if one meets your criteria you can buy that one instead of your special order.

How do you go about the process of ordering? Based on what I've been reading, everyone here seems to be working with a particular dealership. I recently visted a local dealership to inquire about ordering the exact build since so far it hasn't appeared on any dealer order that I've checked in numerous dealerships in Socal. The salesman said I should build it on the website and that it would then be assigned (or I assign, I wasn't quite clear) to a dealership in the area. He seemed completely unintersted in being involved in this process. I could kind of understand if he had been trying to hurry me out of the dealership so he could move on to a more profitable customer but he was very nice and spent quite a bit of time with me.

 

I also got the impression from what he said that it is late to be ordering. He didn't exactly say I couldn't but it seemed a little iffy.

 

I don't know anybody that pays MSRP outside of a few very rare high demand vehicles. $200 - $1000 over dealer invoice is typical.

 

Again, based on what he indicated, I would be paying MSRP since I would be just entering my build data into the Lincoln configurator.

 

I'm pretty discouraged after reading everyone's travails here and after meeting with this salesman. I'm wondering if I should move on (perhaps waiting for the 2014) or restart my car search entirely.

 

Any advice?

[jeff_h]

Any advice?

 

Yes - don't use the dealer that told you that stuff, sounds like the salesman either doesn't know what he/she is talking about, or seeing whether you are familiar with the process and if he/she senses not then you get told well MSRP is the way it is, and expects you to pay that. That part about doing the online build & price online and then it assigns to a particular dealer, don't know what that's about as you put in a zip code and it defaults to the closest dealer. Not sure what this person meant.

 

My local dealer told me that when the Escape Hybrid first came out, as we were buying one for my wife, dealer said sorry these are really high demand so no coming down from MSRP at all. So I searched around and did some online queries and saved $700 by driving to a dealer that was an hour away... for $700 sure I'll take that.

 

I think you should find a dealer that shows your model as dealer stock and do an online price query for that, with the comments that "I like this model it's not quite like I want, what would be your price when placing a retail order?" and go from there. This past purchase I did that with four different dealers and went with the one who offered a price that was $200 over invoice. So shop around a bit, it might save you some money.

[SMSgt B]

Yes - don't use the dealer that told you that stuff, sounds like the salesman either doesn't know what he/she is talking about, or seeing whether you are familiar with the process and if he/she senses not then you get told well MSRP is the way it is, and expects you to pay that. That part about doing the online build & price online and then it assigns to a particular dealer, don't know what that's about as you put in a zip code and it defaults to the closest dealer. Not sure what this person meant.

 

My local dealer told me that when the Escape Hybrid first came out, as we were buying one for my wife, dealer said sorry these are really high demand so no coming down from MSRP at all. So I searched around and did some online queries and saved $700 by driving to a dealer that was an hour away... for $700 sure I'll take that.

 

I think you should find a dealer that shows your model as dealer stock and do an online price query for that, with the comments that "I like this model it's not quite like I want, what would be your price when placing a retail order?" and go from there. This past purchase I did that with four different dealers and went with the one who offered a price that was $200 over invoice. So shop around a bit, it might save you some money.

 

Great advice and just to add on, you need to do your homework prior to going into the dealer. Go to the site and build your car exactly the way you want it. Then go to edmunds.com and rebuild it exactly again so you can see the total invoice price; you want to negotiate as close to or even below invoice. Call every delaer around you and let them know you are very serious to do a deal, but at the right price. If you don't get a warm fuzzy, then go on to the next dealer. Even try out of state as they can have it shipped to the dealer closest to you. Bottom line is the more you educate yourself on the entire car buying process (for example, knowing about hold back, allocation/preorder, etc) will get you a long way when it comes to negotiations.

[MicKeyZ]

That part about doing the online build & price online and then it assigns to a particular dealer, don't know what that's about as you put in a zip code and it defaults to the closest dealer.

 

I think that's what he meant. There are 10 dealers within a 50 mile radius so I suppose I could easily go for any one of those. The dealership I visited is the closest. The way I interpreted what he was saying was as if it were an entirely automated process and I would not be dealing with a particular person.

 

Then go to edmunds.com and rebuild it exactly again so you can see the total invoice price; you want to negotiate as close to or even below invoice.

 

I did do this previously but with the way the process was described (or the way I may have misinterpreted his description), I did not see where I had the opening to talk to a live person about pricing.

 

I think you should find a dealer that shows your model as dealer stock and do an online price query

 

On the dealer's site, Lincoln's site, or some 3rd party site? Ironically, the only hybrid within a 250 mile radius is at the dealership I visited.

[SMSgt B]

MicKeyZ,

 

When you build the car on Lincoln's website and send it out to the dealers, the only thing you are really accomplishing is for a dealer to call and talk about it which is close to you. When you do that, you are not agreeing to purchase it at MSRP since no negotiations have been completed; you're only getting a dealer to call you. About to late to order, you can order at any time, but I would suggest try let the dealership hunt/find your exact car you want first. If they can't find it, then order one (normally the dealer will ask for a $500 deposit).

 

Once you decide to purchase a car, that is when you need to know invoice price and how much you are willing to pay...closer to invoice price, the better.

[akirby]

Every vehicle Ford produces is ordered by a dealer. Most are for dealer stock but if a dealer has a customer that wants something specific then they place a retail order. The only difference is retail orders get built first. You just have to find a dealer willing to do the order for you. The website doesn't do anything for you and the only thing you get from Edmunds is the invoice prices so you know how much to negotiate.

 

Call another dealer and ask for the sales MANAGER (not just a sales person). Tell them what kind of vehicle you want to order and see if they'll work with you. I've never heard of one that would not do that. You either find one in stock somewhere or find a dealer willing to order what you want. Either way you negotiate the price exactly the same as if you were buying it off the lot.

 

One note - the Edmunds or KBB invoice prices do not include the advertising charge which is a legitimate cost that the dealer has to pay. If you take the Edmunds or KBB price and add $500 you'll be pretty close to the actual Ford invoice price. Anywhere from that price to $1000 over is a relatively good deal (minus any rebates or other incentives offered by Ford).

[MicKeyZ]

Back with more questions.....

 

I've tried to heed all the advice offered by the knowledgeable folks here at BON.

 

I found a dealer (fleet) willing to place an order for me at a satisfactory price BUT......

 

I'm likely looking at a July Delivery!!!! Is there a way to move up in priority? I did ask about trading my order for another dealer's stock in the extremely unlikely event one becomes available but was told other dealers would probably want MSRP or greater since the supply is so limited.

 

From what I gather, the customer does not have access to dealer allocations so how can I find someone who can get an earlier delivery or should I just give up and wait for the 2014s?

Edited February 28, 2013 by MicKeyZ

[Serraph]

Back with more questions.....

 

I've tried to heed all the advice offered by the knowledgeable folks here at BON.

 

I found a dealer (fleet) willing to place an order for me at a satisfactory price BUT......

 

I'm likely looking at a July Delivery!!!! Is there a way to move up in priority? I did ask about trading my order for another dealer's stock in the extremely unlikely event one becomes available but was told other dealers would probably want MSRP or greater since the supply is so limited.

 

From what I gather, the customer does not have access to dealer allocations so how can I find someone who can get an earlier delivery or should I just give up and wait for the 2014s?

 

 

They are still listed as 14-16weeks. The dealers around here told me about 10 weeks. Some who have a build date in early Feb have an ETA date of 2nd week into March. Lincoln said all deliveries should be out to dealers by April. Not too sure about 2014s, I think they are open for startup by July but the ok to buy might be in Fall. Some one with more knowledge can chime in on that.

[MicKeyZ]

Lincoln said all deliveries should be out to dealers by April.

 

 

Those are the pre-ordered ones, right? I meant if I placed an order today.

[timf]

Are you still looking for Ginger Ale? You may be out of luck. They have discontinued the color for the Fusion, which likely means the same for the MKZ unless they are saving a limited supply for MKZ production.

[MicKeyZ]

Are you still looking for Ginger Ale? You may be out of luck. They have discontinued the color for the Fusion, which likely means the same for the MKZ unless they are saving a limited supply for MKZ production.

I hope that is not the case. Where did you hear about this? I briefly searched online and didn't find any mentions and Ford's website still allows you to build with that color on a Fusion. Why would a company discontinue a color in the middle of a model year?

[timf]

It was posted in the dealer update over in the Fusion Titanium tracking thread:

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52490-progress-on-orders-for-fusion-energi-and-hybrid-titanium/?p=834346

 

"Balanced out" is another way of saying sold out. Also posted on Donlen production updates in simpler terms:

http://www.donlen.com/production-cars-ford.aspx

 

The fact that they haven't posted a similar message under the MKZ means there's a chance it doesn't apply to it, but generally when a paint color gets built out it applies to all models built at that factory.