New Light & Medium Duty News

[bzcat]

Hino likewise has a 4 cyl diesel in class 4 and 5 cab overs and I do believe will soon have a class 6 cab over

 

Daimler too... Fuso Canter class 3, 4, and 5 with 3.0 I4 diesel.

 

http://www.mitfuso.com/en-us/models/fe130

 

Isuzu is the only one that offers a larger diesel (5.2) for class 4 and 5.

Edited November 9, 2017 by bzcat

[twintornados]

Yeah they are:

 

https://www.isuzucv.com/en/nseries/diesel_trucks

.

My bad...missed that, thanks 7M3

 

ADD ON: Did you see the rear axle ratio on these trucks?? 5.125?? Thats deep indeed...

Edited November 10, 2017 by twintornados

[zipnzap]

Bit of a question. Could this end up being "6.0 Power Stroke" bad?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/06/28/ford-transit-recall/434934001/

 

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/ford-transit-driveshaft-flexible-coupling-lawsuit.shtml

 

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170712006220/en/Lieff-Cabraser-Jones-Ward-Announce-Filing-Ford

 

https://www.law360.com/articles/943756/ford-sued-by-consumers-after-recalling-402k-transit-vans

 

Will this end up having any effect on sales?

 

I'm kind of wondering... This is a work vehicle. The thing already has F-150 drivetrains and a F-150 rear end. Why didn't they just follow suit and use a standard F-150 U-joint or just any U-joint in general?

[packardbob]

Bit of a question. Could this end up being "6.0 Power Stroke" bad?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/06/28/ford-transit-recall/434934001/

 

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/ford-transit-driveshaft-flexible-coupling-lawsuit.shtml

 

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170712006220/en/Lieff-Cabraser-Jones-Ward-Announce-Filing-Ford

 

https://www.law360.com/articles/943756/ford-sued-by-consumers-after-recalling-402k-transit-vans

 

Will this end up having any effect on sales?

 

I'm kind of wondering... This is a work vehicle. The thing already has F-150 drivetrains and a F-150 rear end. Why didn't they just follow suit and use a standard F-150 U-joint or just any U-joint in general?

 

The recall states that they aren't even worried about it until it hits about 30,000 miles so we wont even have ours done until that time.

 

It looks to me like the lawyers got tired of chasing ambulances so they are going after Ford for this. Our Transit has been a great vehicle so far.

Edited November 10, 2017 by packardbob

[twintornados]

 

The recall states that they aren't even worried about it until it hits about 30,000 miles so we wont even have ours done until that time.

 

It looks to me like the lawyers got tired of chasing ambulances so they are going after Ford for this. Our Transit has been a great vehicle so far.

.

Hey there PackardBob...ain't seen you in a while...welcome back.

[zipnzap]

I dunno. Doing a search, seems like this has the primary major issue for owners, especially those on the Fordtransitusa forum:

 

https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=ford+transit+guibo

 

That and rain water or melted snow entering the air filter opening, which Ford has sort of addressed. Though before that, many of them had done a lot of janky fixes to either cover the opening or redirect the water.

[Joe771476]

The only way Ford is going to gain customer trust, confidence, respect in class 7 is by going into class 8. Vocational only, forget the highway tractor....for now anyway. When customers see you don't make anything bigger than class 7, they're going to think you're not fully committed to trucks. A lot of customers like having the same DNA -- if you will -- in their fleets for maintenence and just general familiarity. And if Ford does get back into class 8, they can NEVER get out of it again or they'll NEVER realize any loyalty! Glad to see Ford supplying engines to Pierce, even though I understand it's supposedly an entry level custom cab/chassis. Are you kidding? If it's not a commercial chassis, it's not entry level! These $500,000 custom pumpers/tankers and $1 million ladder trucks is a joke! I don't care how much aluminum, stainless steel, diamond plate, hydraulic and electrical wizardry is in there, it's not worth that kind of money! They get that much because they don't sell that many trucks often enough to allow them to sell them for $250,000, which is all they're worth. In order to maintain revenues they jack up the prices. They keep trying like hell to get the certification levels down to where they would mandate depts. to replace a truck after 10 years instead of 20 years. But if they ever get it down to 10 years, they better drop the cost to $250,000! Taxpayers can't afford these trucks anymore! And most volunteer depts. have budgets that have to be voted on! Screw the mandates. I'd like to see an F750 crew cab outfitted to haul and supply water to a tiller ladder! They should donate some to New York, Chicago and Boston. It would be a great test of performance and durability!

[MGolden]

Delete

Edited November 11, 2017 by MGolden

[SoonerLS]

Hmm. Tesla just announced a new electric semi (Class 8, I guess, as it's supposed to be rated up to the US max GVWR (80K lbs?)) that will hold 65mph on a 5% grade. Supposedly due in two years (sez the company that still hasn't delivered on their promised production targets for the Model 3), and WalMart has said they'll be testing them.

 

I wonder if that'll make Hackett more interested in mediums...

[Bob Rosadini]

Hmm. Tesla just announced a new electric semi (Class 8, I guess, as it's supposed to be rated up to the US max GVWR (80K lbs?)) that will hold 65mph on a 5% grade. Supposedly due in two years (sez the company that still hasn't delivered on their promised production targets for the Model 3), and WalMart has said they'll be testing them.

 

I wonder if that'll make Hackett more interested in mediums...

If anything I think it will discourage him. As for Tesla, it blows my mind that how this guy can talk about pulling something out of his hat so quickly. we are talking about an unbelievable change in power trains- no transmissions, no differentials etc etc. And he is going to be on the road in 24 months!

[jpd80]

LOL, this is cart before the horse stuff..

 

Tesla needs the full Mega charging network to be in place first before releasing the truck.

 

Electric trucks offer a huge shift in transport paradigm, away from diesel engines and transmissions,

I still think that Tesla will have a hard road convincing long distance freight companies to switch and

equally, regional operators may not see the economic up point for years, there's so much up front cost.

 

Someone like Volvo may embrace this tech in Europe where they are preparing a fast charge network

by collaboration with multiple brands, I just see this as a lot slower coming in North America.

Edited November 18, 2017 by jpd80

[351cid]

Not to mention initial purchase price. No small operator can afford what I guess to be a $300,000 tractor that can only go 500 miles.

[351cid]

Not to mention initial purchase price. No small operator can afford what I guess to be a $300,000 tractor that can only go 500 miles.

[jpd80]

That's the thing with buying into new technology, all the costs of the vehicle and battery storage are up front.

If a regular class 8 can get 5-7 mpg hauling a full load, then 500 miles is going to be about 100 gallons of

diesel so the costs rack up fast versus what could be a $10-$20 recharge...is that about right?

 

You guys in the industry can fill in the blanks but to a lay person like me, it looks like a heck of a lot of up front

cost to save if fuel in the long term. I guess that over 500,000 miles, saving close on 100,000 gallons of diesel

means quite a lot provided there isn't a hefty give back ....

Edited November 19, 2017 by jpd80

[Ron W.]

Will an electric motor last for up to 500 hundred thousand miles (or more) the way the big diesels do ?

[SoonerLS]

Will an electric motor last for up to 500 hundred thousand miles (or more) the way the big diesels do ?

IIRC, he said they will be warrantied for a million miles.

[SoonerLS]

If anything I think it will discourage him. As for Tesla, it blows my mind that how this guy can talk about pulling something out of his hat so quickly. we are talking about an unbelievable change in power trains- no transmissions, no differentials etc etc. And he is going to be on the road in 24 months!

Oh, I have serious doubts about his ability to deliver this within the specified time frame, but if a big player like WalMart is seriously considering them, there might be something there--WalMart isn't known for taking fliers or backing the wrong horse (at least not very often).

 

I'm just thinking this might be the kind of Silicon Valley Sexiness that might interest Hackett.

Edited November 19, 2017 by SoonerLS

[jpd80]

IIRC, he said they will be warrantied for a million miles.

Yeah, I was going to say that generally, electrical components that are designed properly will outlast a conventional ICE,

especially if it's a brushless AC traction motor that gets proper cooling around the coils.

 

The other interesting part is regenerative braking on a truck with 80,000 lbs to pull up down a long grade is gonna do some

serious recharging of the batteries instead of burning out many sets of brake linings..

Edited November 19, 2017 by jpd80

[Bob Rosadini]

So Check this out;

 

Ford Trucks Press Release / November 21, 2017

Our heavy commercial vehicle brand Ford Trucks combines over 55 years of truck manufacturing experience in the global market with the ability to develop special products for different export markets.

Following investment in Morocco, Algeria and Ghana, Ford Trucks has now moved one step further in Africa with a new distributor in Cairo, the capital of Egypt.

Ford Trucks continues to strengthen and grow in the international market with dealers outside the country.

In cooperation with new partner Aljico MISR, Ford Trucks will launch the 1843t XHR, 3543t LR, 1833 DC, 3543d DC and 4143m DC models in Egypt.

These models have been specially designed in accordance with the hot and dusty conditions of the region.

Our new generation of Euro 6 Ford “Ecotorq” engines are produced at our powertrain plant in Eskisehir Inonu, Turkey, and are strategically important for our sustainable growth globally.

We are working on advanced technologies to offer products that will compete in all potential export markets, including Ford Otosan, not only in Turkey but in Europe and North America.

500 of the 1500 engineers at the Ford global truck R&D center are working to develop heavy commercial vehicles for international markets.

"As Ford trucks, we continue to expand our network of dealers in accordance with our goal of being in total 50 countries as of 2020,” says Ford Trucks International markets director Emrah Duman.

“The African market has a very important place in our global growth plans. Egypt has launched a new development move with investments in transportation and construction projects amounting to 14.4 billion euros. Furthermore, 90% of cargo transported in Egyptian are via heavy trucks. This reveals the magnitude of the heavy truck market in Egypt. Depending on the high potential of Egypt, we are planning to open 3 separate facilities in Egypt by the end of 2018 with Aljico Misr, one of the leading distributors of the region. With our ability to develop products for different export markets as Ford trucks, we offer our models to market the geographical and climatic conditions of Egypt. We believe that we are going to increase our market share in Africa with our new facilities and move our customer satisfaction in the region further. "

I wonder if "engineer" means anyone working in the plant!

[twintornados]

 

So Check this out;

....

Our new generation of Euro 6 Ford “Ecotorq” engines are produced at our powertrain plant in Eskisehir Inonu, Turkey, and are strategically important for our sustainable growth globally.

We are working on advanced technologies to offer products that will compete in all potential export markets, including Ford Otosan, not only in Turkey but in Europe and North America.

500 of the 1500 engineers at the Ford global truck R&D center are working to develop heavy commercial vehicles for international markets.

.

Bring on the Ecotorq to the North American market!!

[jpd80]

That Ecotorq is a massive engine, imagine what it could do for the MDs as well as class 8.

[Bob Rosadini]

Regarding my comment on .."does "engineer" mean anyone woking on the line"- my source has told me in fact they have that many engineers working on the total commercial vehicle program on a world wide basis.

 

And I agree with TT and JPD 80 on the Ecotorques. But does some licensing deal with Fiat Powertrain preclude bringing these engines to North America??

 

In any case, with GM doing the deal with Isuzu on the rebadged LCO's, this has to put pressure on Ford to get back into this market IMO. Perhaps the lower weight class Cargos from Brazil might be an option. Some say that are "dated" but perhaps an upgrade is in the works.

[jpd80]

Regarding my comment on .."does "engineer" mean anyone woking on the line"- my source has told me in fact they have that many engineers working on the total commercial vehicle program on a world wide basis.

 

And I agree with TT and JPD 80 on the Ecotorques. But does some licensing deal with Fiat Powertrain preclude bringing these engines to North America??

 

In any case, with GM doing the deal with Isuzu on the rebadged LCO's, this has to put pressure on Ford to get back into this market IMO. Perhaps the lower weight class Cargos from Brazil might be an option. Some say that are "dated" but perhaps an upgrade is in the works.

The 13 liter MK 3 Ecotorq ist own design not related to the 9.0 liter Fiat based MK 2 Ecotorq.

Edited November 24, 2017 by jpd80

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I think that a lot of the talk here is kind of missing the shift that is going to be coming to first world nations over the next decade. The movement is already afoot against fossil fuels, and a big target of that movement is diesel. Once Elon Musk, Via Tesla's Electric Semi, as well as CAT, Mercedes, and several other entrants into the electric semi movement start to prove out that the technology is ready and usable, you'll see the legislatures start to set sunset dates for Diesel OTR and city tractors. Trucking companies will have to go through the pain of upgrading their freight docks with recharging facilities, and some of the big truck stop chains will have to invest in fast charging facilities themselves.

 

This shift is going to put a terrible financial strain on a lot of the smaller freight companies, and I think that you'll see a round of consolidation in the industry because of it. But, the long term benefits will vastly outweigh the short term up front costs. It's not just fuel savings. It's reduced cost for brakes as pads will last longer than they do now. It's maintenance and upkeep as there are many fewer moving parts, including the elimination of transmissions. Municipalities will appreciate them as they are going to be much quieter and less sooty in most situations (I'm aware that modern, well kept diesels are relatively smoke free, but, they still generate some and can potentially generate a lot), and I think we'll all appreciate the absence of the jake brake.

 

For those that say that the US will drag it's feet on making the change, I think that you are overlooking the power of two things:

1)It appears that there will be a significant backlash against the current political party that's in the majority, resulting in a legislature that is more in favor of progressive policies that apply to transportation.

2) Companies vote with their wallet. When the numbers start coming in and show that the electric semis are not only feasible to operate, but also cheaper to operate in a full lifecycle basis, you'll start to see the industry push adoption to higher levels.

 

In this case, I'm not so concerned about Musk making his delivery promises. He's had prototypes running for over a year wearing standard sheetmetal and making deliveries for him. There is a lot of competition in this space, though not many of them are high profile. This is one area that he can and will meet expectations.

 

How this relates to Ford? Ford seems to be pushing a lot of their larger vehicle development towards over seas projects in countries that will still be running fossil fuels for a long time due to reduced infrastructure support for electrical distribution. The above listed announcements really bear this out. Domestically, if they aren't working on Electric Class 7 and below large trucks, then they are making a serious mistake. Their lack of progress on larger engines would indicate that they are focusing their efforts on something else. I'm hoping that it's electric, or at least heavy duty hybrid.

[7Mary3]

The infrastructure issue is not just a factor in less developed nations, it's a very significant factor here. There isn't enough generating to support widespread use of EV's currently. As for Musk, building a practical electric class 8 truck isn't the trick, it's building the truck profitably..........