Jump to content

New Light & Medium Duty News


Recommended Posts

I don't think GM really wants to be a serious player in class 6 and 7, beyond offering their commercial dealers a basic product in that segment.  From what I understand Navistar is more than pleased with the GM joint venture, it got them into class 4/5 at minimal cost and it has increased plant utilization at Springfield significantly.  GM is also able to offer Navistar engineering and components for HVAC, electrical, and body systems, I suspect that is what is driving the possibility of future joint projects.   I don't see VW having much of a problem with this, it represents sales volume and cost savings.  BTW, after VW made that offer for Navistar the silence has been deafening...........     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, SteelyD said:

So this is a direct competitor to the F-600 or F-650. C-60.

 

The platform is medium duty frame so in concept it is similar to F-650. But GM also offers lower GVWR for class 4 and 5 that competes with F-450/550. This is why Ford is offering F-600 as a response.

 

GM's truck offerings doesn't quite line up with Ford or FCA.

 

Ford has 1 chassis for Class 2a (F-150) and 2nd chassis for class 2b to Class 5 that it markets as "HD" (F-250-550) and a third medium duty Class 6 to Class 8 chassis (F-650-750). 

FCA has 1 chassis for Class 2a to Class 5 (Ram 1500 to 5500)

GM has 1 chassis for Class 2a to Class 3 (Silverado 1500 to 3500) and 2nd chassis (actually Navistar medium duty chassis) for Class 4 to 6 (Silverado 4500 to 6500)

 

Ford

Class 1: Ranger 

Class 2a:  F-150

Class 2b/3/4/5: F-250/350/450/550

Class 6/7/8: F650/750

 

Class 2b/3: Transit cutaway/chassis cab

Class 3/4: E-350/450 cutaway/stripped chassis

Class 4/5/6: F59/F53 stripped chassis

 

Class 1: Transit Connect van

Class 2a/2b/3: Transit van

 

FCA

Class 1: Jeep Gladiator

Class 2a/2b/3/4/5: Ram 1500/2500/3500/4500/5500

 

Class 2b/3: Promaster cutaway/chassis cab

 

Class 1: Promaster City

Class  2a/2b/3: Promaster

 

GM

Class 1: Colorado (based on Isuzu design)

Class 2a/2b/3: Silverado 1500/2500/3500

Class 4/5/6: Silverado 4500/5500/6500 (Navistar chassis)

 

Class 3/4/5: Low Cab Forward (Isuzu chassis)

 

Class 2b/3: Express van

 

You can see why Ford dominates commercial truck sales in the US - they have a tool for every niche. The only thing they don't compete in is cab forward but E-series can fill in there with better pricing and operating costs on a lot of bids. Unless the RFP specifically require cab forward or have length restriction, Ford can compete with everyone else. 

Edited by bzcat
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bzcat said:

 

The platform is medium duty frame so in concept it is similar to F-650. But GM also offers lower GVWR for class 4 and 5 that competes with F-450/550. This is why Ford is offering F-600 as a response.

 

GM's truck offerings doesn't quite line up with Ford or FCA.

 

Ford has 1 chassis for Class 2a (F-150) and 2nd chassis for class 2b to Class 5 that it markets as "HD" (F-250-550) and a third medium duty Class 6 to Class 8 chassis (F-650-750). 

FCA has 1 chassis for Class 2a to Class 5 (Ram 1500 to 5500)

GM has 1 chassis for Class 2a to Class 3 (Silverado 1500 to 3500) and 2nd chassis (actually Navistar medium duty chassis) for Class 4 to 6 (Silverado 4500 to 6500)

 

Ford

Class 1: Ranger 

Class 2a:  F-150

Class 2b/3/4/5: F-250/350/450/550

Class 6/7/8: F650/750

 

Class 2b/3: Transit cutaway/chassis cab

Class 3/4: E-350/450 cutaway/stripped chassis

Class 4/5/6: F59/F53 stripped chassis

 

Class 1: Transit Connect van

Class 2a/2b/3: Transit van

 

FCA

Class 1: Jeep Gladiator

Class 2a/2b/3/4/5: Ram 1500/2500/3500/4500/5500

 

Class 2b/3: Promaster cutaway/chassis cab

 

Class 1: Promaster City

Class  2a/2b/3: Promaster

 

GM

Class 1: Colorado (based on Isuzu design)

Class 2a/2b/3: Silverado 1500/2500/3500

Class 4/5/6: Silverado 4500/5500/6500 (Navistar chassis)

 

Class 3/4/5: Low Cab Forward (Isuzu chassis)

 

Class 2b/3: Express van

 

You can see why Ford dominates commercial truck sales in the US - they have a tool for every niche. The only thing they don't compete in is cab forward but E-series can fill in there with better pricing and operating costs on a lot of bids. Unless the RFP specifically require cab forward or have length restriction, Ford can compete with everyone else. 

 

That's about the way I see it as well.  GM does offer a class 6 LCF, the 6500XD, which is similar to the Isuzu FTR.  The E series does offer better pricing than certain LCF's, but they really don't compete directly.  And based on my experiences, Isuzu's have about the lowest operating costs of any commercial vehicle.  Overall ownership costs are also low, the higher purchase price is offset by higher resale value.  The E competes directly with the old Savanna/Express 3500/4500 cut-away versions.  GM offers no stripped chassis models at this time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well Hino sales keep climbing in class 8 from 2019 YTD last month of 8, now YTD for 2019 of 18 units.  I could be wrong, but class 7 Hino and Ford sales seem to be getting closer.  I foresee Hino overtaking Ford in class 7 because of Hino's entry into class 8. VW's Caminhoes e Onibus sales in Brazil are up 15 percent, since Ford bowed out there.  It was because VW ordered Ford out of Brazil to show good faith regarding the VW/Ford joint venture.  Yes, VW gives orders, Ford takes orders!  No guts!  VW had $14 billion profit last year!  So many lawsuits over the dieselgate scandal totalling billions and it's like a nickel to them!  They'll own Ford and International soon.  I've made some monumental predictions that came true and if I told you them, you'd $hit!  I hope I'm wrong about this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

The platform is medium duty frame so in concept it is similar to F-650. But GM also offers lower GVWR for class 4 and 5 that competes with F-450/550. This is why Ford is offering F-600 as a response.

 

GM's truck offerings doesn't quite line up with Ford or FCA.

 

Ford has 1 chassis for Class 2a (F-150) and 2nd chassis for class 2b to Class 5 that it markets as "HD" (F-250-550) and a third medium duty Class 6 to Class 8 chassis (F-650-750). 

FCA has 1 chassis for Class 2a to Class 5 (Ram 1500 to 5500)

GM has 1 chassis for Class 2a to Class 3 (Silverado 1500 to 3500) and 2nd chassis (actually Navistar medium duty chassis) for Class 4 to 6 (Silverado 4500 to 6500)

 

Ford

Class 1: Ranger 

Class 2a:  F-150

Class 2b/3/4/5: F-250/350/450/550

Class 6/7/8: F650/750

 

Class 2b/3: Transit cutaway/chassis cab

Class 3/4: E-350/450 cutaway/stripped chassis

Class 4/5/6: F59/F53 stripped chassis

 

Class 1: Transit Connect van

Class 2a/2b/3: Transit van

 

FCA

Class 1: Jeep Gladiator

Class 2a/2b/3/4/5: Ram 1500/2500/3500/4500/5500

 

Class 2b/3: Promaster cutaway/chassis cab

 

Class 1: Promaster City

Class  2a/2b/3: Promaster

 

GM

Class 1: Colorado (based on Isuzu design)

Class 2a/2b/3: Silverado 1500/2500/3500

Class 4/5/6: Silverado 4500/5500/6500 (Navistar chassis)

 

Class 3/4/5: Low Cab Forward (Isuzu chassis)

 

Class 2b/3: Express van

 

You can see why Ford dominates commercial truck sales in the US - they have a tool for every niche. The only thing they don't compete in is cab forward but E-series can fill in there with better pricing and operating costs on a lot of bids. Unless the RFP specifically require cab forward or have length restriction, Ford can compete with everyone else. 

Good summation although I would say F-600 is similar to 550, not 650.  I view it as a 550 with heavier spring and tire options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Good summation although I would say F-600 is similar to 550, not 650.  I view it as a 550 with heavier spring and tire options.

 

I forgot to include F-600 but it is on the F-series HD chassis so definitely a 450/550 extension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, J-150 said:

 

GM launched the MDs with a grill design to match the outgoing model. The light duty pickups don't look like that anymore. Huge blunder.

 

Not that it really matters for an MD truck. 

 

I'm starting to see quite a few of them around now too.  My niece's husband just bought one for his business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, just found them.  Looks good, a lot of frame options, high GVW's on the 750's.  Noticed tractors are diesel only and the 7.3L gas is only available with hydraulic brakes.  Not too much of a surprise.  Now all Ford needs is an F-850 with a 9L Cummins/Allison 3000 drive train and a tandem axle option.......

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Thanks, just found them.  Looks good, a lot of frame options, high GVW's on the 750's.  Noticed tractors are diesel only and the 7.3L gas is only available with hydraulic brakes.  Not too much of a surprise.  Now all Ford needs is an F-850 with a 9L Cummins/Allison 3000 drive train and a tandem axle option.......

I do believe air brakes are on the horizon.  Now why would they NOT be available now?  Good question.  Air on same chassis with a Power Stroke.  You don't think Ford would do something to encourage buyers to favor the more more costly  6.7?? Nah.

 

Can't believe they would be releasing the 7.3 without adequate compressor mounting points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

I do believe air brakes are on the horizon.  Now why would they NOT be available now?  Good question.  Air on same chassis with a Power Stroke.  You don't think Ford would do something to encourage buyers to favor the more more costly  6.7?? Nah.

 

Can't believe they would be releasing the 7.3 without adequate compressor mounting points.

 

I was looking at a 7.3L out of a truck (250-350 I assume) and I couldn't clearly see were they would mount a compressor.  The timing cover has integral brackets for the belt tensioner and idler pulleys, maybe with a different front cover they could mount a compressor.  I figure most 7.3L's would be in <26,000# GVW F-650's with juice brakes anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, snooter said:

I see one cant get 3.73 gearing in f250 with 7.3l...interesting

 

What's interesting? Truck has a 10 speed instead of a 6 speed.

 

Gm had changed their gearing with their 10 speed. (Diesel only, of course)

Edited by MY93SHO
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I was looking at a 7.3L out of a truck (250-350 I assume) and I couldn't clearly see were they would mount a compressor.  The timing cover has integral brackets for the belt tensioner and idler pulleys, maybe with a different front cover they could mount a compressor.  I figure most 7.3L's would be in <26,000# GVW F-650's with juice brakes anyway.

No doubt .  But there are plenty of applications in class 7 where the 7.3 will be a good choice-in particular when  full air is available.   Keep in mind, the 7.3  puts out HP and torque numbers that exceed the old 401 and are close to the 477 Super Duty ratings of the 60's. And for the nth time, if an operator does not run high annual mileage, but needs a class 7 rating in terms of GVW and power, he will never payout the 6.7 premium in a reasonable period of time and the 7.3 will be a good compromise IMO. Take a typical building contractor.  These guys often run class 6 and 7 trucks as a matter of convenience.  Moving a big volume of dirt? Usually contract that out.  But an occasional load of fill? Or a load of crushed stone?, Mason sand? etc etc. Or they own a Lull.  Nice to have a class7 dump with air  to the rear, a pintle and a  tandem tag trailer.  Been there-done that.

Like I said, I do  believe the 7.3 will be available with air before long.

 

And yes I'm old school when an F-250 had a 272 V-8.?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...