SteelyD Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 14 hours ago, jpd80 said: Do you think that an air brakes option is something Ford feels is better left to a tier 1 supplier to develop for post production fitment? I could see that working much the same way that CNG prep allows buyers to have that option without Ford handling the complete system. I don't have an opinion on med duty air brakes. Fleet sales might know what fleet owners may want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 No, adding air brakes to a truck originally built with hydraulic would not be practical. I don't think many potential buyers of 7.3L powered F-650's would be interested in air brakes anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Guys-what am I missing? We are not talking about anything overly complicated.....Air brakes! All the stuff is readily available. Somehow, Ford has a problem because the 7.3 runs hotter than a 6.8 V-10?? or a 6.7 Power Stroke? OR ANY OF THE CUMMINS/CAT OPTIONS THAT WERE AVAILABLE ON THE OLD 650/750 Cautilan Fords or the Bluediamond Fords?? Glad these guys aren't working on a space capsule? Oh and 7m- you might be right on an air braked 650. I think the bigger market now is a properly specced 33,000 lb 750 that carries a derated plate to 26,000 (25,999?) to avoid hiring a cdl driver. Its all about the cost-and availability -of a CDL driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Did Ford ever offer air brakes on 6.8L V-10 F-650's? If they did I never saw one so equipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 21 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Did Ford ever offer air brakes on 6.8L V-10 F-650's? If they did I never saw one so equipped. 7m-can't say I have either..I'll check my collection and see if I have any spec sheets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 11:47 AM, Bob Rosadini said: Guys-what am I missing? We are not talking about anything overly complicated.....Air brakes! All the stuff is readily available. Somehow, Ford has a problem because the 7.3 runs hotter than a 6.8 V-10?? or a 6.7 Power Stroke? OR ANY OF THE CUMMINS/CAT OPTIONS THAT WERE AVAILABLE ON THE OLD 650/750 Cautilan Fords or the Bluediamond Fords?? Glad these guys aren't working on a space capsule? Oh and 7m- you might be right on an air braked 650. I think the bigger market now is a properly specced 33,000 lb 750 that carries a derated plate to 26,000 (25,999?) to avoid hiring a cdl driver. Its all about the cost-and availability -of a CDL driver. From what I’m seeing F600 has taken a big chunk of sales growth potential away from F650, It might be only 600 sales per month but that’s added to F550’s 4,500 to 5,000 sales per month. In good months, F650 is up around 1500-1800 sales while F750 is about 10%-15% of that. Perspective is important here, the MDs could be more but Ford isn’t thinking that way, F Series got the 7.3 exactly because it was just big enough to cover “everything else” that needed a better sized/ bigger gasoline engine than the 6.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 13 hours ago, jpd80 said: From what I’m seeing F600 has taken a big chunk of sales growth potential away from F650, It might be only 600 sales per month but that’s added to F550’s 4,500 to 5,000 sales per month. In good months, F650 is up around 1500-1800 sales while F750 is about 10%-15% of that. Perspective is important here, the MDs could be more but Ford isn’t thinking that way, F Series got the 7.3 exactly because it was just big enough to cover “everything else” that needed a better sized/ bigger gasoline engine than the 6.2 JP-no doubt F-600 is eating into some 650 sales. My guess is the cab size appeals to a lot of "non-truckers" who view the 650 as a big truck. I would be shocked if U-Haul for example continues with 650 over 600-unless wheel base is an issue-should get off my butt and see if I have any literature with respective available WB's. On another note, I've previously mentioned how while Ford with LN -8000 in the "old days" was the predominant 33,000 gvw (2800 gal) heating oil truck around here, International, F'liner and Paccar now share that business. Although today I saw a new Pete that was chromed to the hilt. Outfit in question still has some good looking Ln-8000s but given Fords drive to boost ATP's, when I look at that Pete, for sure cost savings was not an issue when this Pete was specced. Again big motivator IMO is driver retention as well as company image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 Interesting. Blue Bird Will Produce School Buses Using Ford 7.3L Godzilla V8: Video 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I figured it was a matter of time before Blue Bird adopted the 7.3L. They should sell a few in rural areas, at least for a while. School buses are prime candidates for BEV electrification due do relatively short fixed base routes. The vehicles also have a lot of space for batteries and parents like the safety and zero emissions characteristics of BEV's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edselford Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 Mary, Do you think the comments on the heat issue regarding 7.3 liter is due to the limited amount of coolant flowing through the fly cut between the cylinder bores and the cylinder head or could it be due to a deck height that is somewhat short for a 101mm stroke? Thanks edselford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 On 9/27/2021 at 12:39 PM, 7Mary3 said: I figured it was a matter of time before Blue Bird adopted the 7.3L. They should sell a few in rural areas, at least for a while. School buses are prime candidates for BEV electrification due do relatively short fixed base routes. The vehicles also have a lot of space for batteries and parents like the safety and zero emissions characteristics of BEV's. Hopefully Ford will be able to capitalize on the F150 Lightning technology and between Roush and Ford come up with a system for buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 9 hours ago, edselford said: Mary, Do you think the comments on the heat issue regarding 7.3 liter is due to the limited amount of coolant flowing through the fly cut between the cylinder bores and the cylinder head or could it be due to a deck height that is somewhat short for a 101mm stroke? Thanks edselford I am not really sure, but my guess is the issue would have more to do with how much coolant is in the heads. The slots should help with cylinder bore distortion, and the 7.3L looks to have good sized water jackets in the block. Problem is that's not where most of the heat is generated. The 7.3L's heads on the other hand, appear not to have a lot of coolant flow through them. I have not as of yet actually measured how much water the heads hold, I am just going by what I have seen so far. Funny the big issue 50 years ago with the Ford FT 330-361-391 truck engines was coolant flow through the heads. Those engines were chronic over-heaters when pushed hard. I wouldn't think the deck height would be much of an issue regardless of what it is. Does anyone know what the 7.3L's connecting rod ratio is? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 So Ford Mexico has starting selling the Transit Courier: https://www.ford.mx/camiones/transit/courier/2021/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edselford Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Yes, the rod to stroke ratio of the 7.3 is 1.589 to 1. This is probably the lowest of any ford V8! The FT series truck engines had problems with heat that was never fixed . The fix was the 370 V8 from the 385 series I think ? edselford 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 The Lima's were a much better truck engine than the FT's ever were, in my opinion. I think the only reason the Super Duty V-8's stayed around so long was because the FT391 could not compete with the GM 'truck' 427's. Interesting about the rod ratio of the 7.3L. I never thought rod ratio was that big a deal, one of the 'worst' engines from a rod ratio standpoint was the Ford 300 6 cylinder. Right around 1.5 as I remember. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, edselford said: Yes, the rod to stroke ratio of the 7.3 is 1.589 to 1. This is probably the lowest of any ford V8! The FT series truck engines had problems with heat that was never fixed . The fix was the 370 V8 from the 385 series I think ? edselford For decades now, anything around 1.6 has proven to be more than acceptable in most regular applications. While having a long enough rod is important, improvements in other areas of engine design have made newer engines more efficient. I don’t claim to be an expert in this field but it seems to me that HD & MD require gasoline engines to be at least 7.0 litres to have sufficient capacity to maintain efficiency under continuous load. Going larger capacity probably treads on the toes of sacred cow diesel sales…. Edited September 30, 2021 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: For decades now, anything around 1.6 has proven to be more than acceptable in most regular applications. While having a long enough rod is important, improvements in other areas of engine design have made newer engines more efficient. I don’t claim to be an expert in this field but it seems to me that HD & MD require gasoline engines to be at least 7.0 litres to have sufficient capacity to maintain efficiency under continuous load. Going larger capacity probably treads on the toes of sacred cow diesel sales…. Well JP and Edsel appreciate the education-way above my pay grade. But what was the sales pitch back in the 50's when the OHV's replaced the flathead and "short stroke design"was a sales pitch? Or does that get lost when crankshaft design is taken into consideration? And as for 7 liters being max, go back to the days of the 534 Ford, 549 International and the V-12 GMC. They competed quite well with the likes of a 220 Cummins, 6-71 Detroit etc. Pretty much on the first cost issue- for sure fuel consumption was not a factor. I always wondered how those old gassers would perform today with modern fuel and ignition systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyD Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 No over heating problems have been reported to Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard1 Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 4:13 PM, Joe771476 said: Hopefully Ford will be able to capitalize on the F150 Lightning technology and between Roush and Ford come up with a system for buses. In recent years, Roush has concentrated on LP conversions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 20 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Well JP and Edsel appreciate the education-way above my pay grade. But what was the sales pitch back in the 50's when the OHV's replaced the flathead and "short stroke design"was a sales pitch? Or does that get lost when crankshaft design is taken into consideration? And as for 7 liters being max, go back to the days of the 534 Ford, 549 International and the V-12 GMC. They competed quite well with the likes of a 220 Cummins, 6-71 Detroit etc. Pretty much on the first cost issue- for sure fuel consumption was not a factor. I always wondered how those old gassers would perform today with modern fuel and ignition systems. The 7.3 makes it easy to imagine the 370, 429, 460 Lima engines, modernised with alloy heads and fuel injection. How I wish that Ford had merged 302, 351 and 400 engines into one engine architecture like Ford Motorsport did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 From CCJ........ COMPANIES Shareholders approve Daimler Truck spinoff CCJ Staff Oct 4, 2021 Trucking news and briefs for Monday, Oct. 4, 2021: Shareholders okay spinoff of Daimler Trucks Shareholders of Daimler AG, the parent-company of Daimler Trucks North America, Mercedes-Benz and others, approved by an overwhelming margin Friday realignment of the company, which will include spinning off the company's truck and bus business. A vote in favor of the measure was 99.90%, clearing the way for Daimler Truck Holding AG to become an independent company on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. Two current members of the Daimler Supervisory Board, Marie Wieck and Joe Kaeser, will step down from their positions and join the Supervisory Board of Daimler Truck Holding AG. Shareholders approved, also with an overwhelming majority of 99.89% of the votes cast, renaming Daimler AG to Mercedes-Benz Group AG effective Feb. 1, 2022. The new name, the company said, emphasizes the future focus on cars and vans of the brands Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-AMG, Mercedes-Maybach and Mercedes-EQ. The two measures must now be entered in the Commercial Register. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 That was expected, but still big news. What is amazing about Daimler Trucks is how DTNA (Freightliner) constitutes the largest part of the company, both in sales and profit. By large margins too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted October 7, 2021 Author Share Posted October 7, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 12:42 PM, 7Mary3 said: That was expected, but still big news. What is amazing about Daimler Trucks is how DTNA (Freightliner) constitutes the largest part of the company, both in sales and profit. By large margins too. The reason why Daimler bought Freightliner is because of those butt ugly Mercedes Trucks they were selling around 1996! One floral company in CT bought about 20 of those ugly beasts! Only problem was he was the ONLY buyer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 You mean the conventional with the Mercedes cab? Ugly, but the best riding Daimler truck I ever drove! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 If anyone was wondering, the Transit has started production in Uruguay. Also E-Transit is headed to Australia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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