ausrutherford Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On 10/4/2021 at 1:28 PM, Bob Rosadini said: From CCJ........ COMPANIES Shareholders approve Daimler Truck spinoff CCJ Staff Oct 4, 2021 Trucking news and briefs for Monday, Oct. 4, 2021: Shareholders okay spinoff of Daimler Trucks Shareholders of Daimler AG, the parent-company of Daimler Trucks North America, Mercedes-Benz and others, approved by an overwhelming margin Friday realignment of the company, which will include spinning off the company's truck and bus business. A vote in favor of the measure was 99.90%, clearing the way for Daimler Truck Holding AG to become an independent company on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange. Two current members of the Daimler Supervisory Board, Marie Wieck and Joe Kaeser, will step down from their positions and join the Supervisory Board of Daimler Truck Holding AG. Shareholders approved, also with an overwhelming majority of 99.89% of the votes cast, renaming Daimler AG to Mercedes-Benz Group AG effective Feb. 1, 2022. The new name, the company said, emphasizes the future focus on cars and vans of the brands Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-AMG, Mercedes-Maybach and Mercedes-EQ. The two measures must now be entered in the Commercial Register. I wonder if this will spell the death of the rebadged Freightliner Sprinter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, ausrutherford said: I wonder if this will spell the death of the rebadged Freightliner Sprinter? Not necessarily, it could be good business for both parties to continue this arrangement for now. It feels like rationalisation is coming sooner rather than later and the fact that Daimler/MB wants out of heavy trucks so that it can concentrate on light vehicles is not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamweasel Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Not necessarily, it could be good business for both parties to continue this arrangement for now. It feels like rationalisation is coming sooner rather than later and the fact that Daimler/MB wants out of heavy trucks so that it can concentrate on light vehicles is not surprising. I think eventually the Sprinters will keep making their way towards being handled by the Mercedes car dealers. Most Freightliner dealers don't even want to deal with Sprinters (or Metris) - even those who have them. The Dealer Ops group that controls Sprinters/Metris have been horrible for years - and that's one reason why Ford kicks their butts in the marketplace - and selling/servicing those Benz vans is not worth the hassle for the truck dealers, honestly. For the Freightliner dealers who have them, it's such a small piece of the pie compared to the bigger medium/heavy trucks it's not worth their attention. I know Sales Managers at many Freightliner dealerships and several of them dropped the franchise in the past 3-5 years, and the rest who still have it really don't care to keep it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 44 minutes ago, iamweasel said: I think eventually the Sprinters will keep making their way towards being handled by the Mercedes car dealers. Most Freightliner dealers don't even want to deal with Sprinters (or Metris) - even those who have them. The Dealer Ops group that controls Sprinters/Metris have been horrible for years - and that's one reason why Ford kicks their butts in the marketplace - and selling/servicing those Benz vans is not worth the hassle for the truck dealers, honestly. For the Freightliner dealers who have them, it's such a small piece of the pie compared to the bigger medium/heavy trucks it's not worth their attention. I know Sales Managers at many Freightliner dealerships and several of them dropped the franchise in the past 3-5 years, and the rest who still have it really don't care to keep it. Daimler might make it a condition of the new company to keep buying them but going on your feedback it’s more likely that they won’t. Not a good time to be kicked out of the nest…… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Well picked up the latest Truck and Equipment Post which is an "ad rag" that is out every two weeks here in NE. As I've done in the past I did a tally of Ford dealer ads comparing inventory of 350, 450, 550 as a group, then 550, 600, 650/750. 350, 450, 550 units in stock 65 550 " 31 600 " 4 650/750 7 No clue what this proves other than not many dealers are betting on 600 vs 550. And I would bet most the of the 600 units are alternatives to 650. Chevy and International units in stock in class 4, 5, 6 If I had to guess about 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 36 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Well picked up the latest Truck and Equipment Post which is an "ad rag" that is out every two weeks here in NE. As I've done in the past I did a tally of Ford dealer ads comparing inventory of 350, 450, 550 as a group, then 550, 600, 650/750. 350, 450, 550 units in stock 65 550 " 31 600 " 4 650/750 7 No clue what this proves other than not many dealers are betting on 600 vs 550. And I would bet most the of the 600 units are alternatives to 650. Chevy and International units in stock in class 4, 5, 6 If I had to guess about 10. 1 October inventory of Heavy Trucks was 3500, I suspect that sales are a little indifferent at the moment, also GM managed to sell around 2,000 MDS last quarter, so maybe they are also biting into Ford’s customers… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 22 hours ago, jpd80 said: 1 October inventory of Heavy Trucks was 3500, I suspect that sales are a little indifferent at the moment, also GM managed to sell around 2,000 MDS last quarter, so maybe they are also biting into Ford’s customers… JP No question that the GM/Navistar twins have to be having some impact. But my thought was these stats support the fact that 600 is not moving to the degree many thought it would-at least by these inventory figures-and my assumption that dealers order for stock what they think will move. Now I suppose some would say.."well there is no dealer inventory because they are moving off lots quickly". Perhaps-but I try to pay attention to what I see on street and can't say I see many. I would imagine big question is what is premium$$ for a 600 at 22,000 gvw vs a 550 at 19,500? My guess is if it is significant a lot of guys will take their chances with a 550 running "heavy" every now and then. Any sales guys out there with an opinion. Or better yet any sales stats on 600? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: No question that the GM/Navistar twins have to be having some impact. But my thought was these stats support the fact that 600 is not moving to the degree many thought it would-at least by these inventory figures-and my assumption that dealers order for stock what they think will move. Possibly, but I wonder if the F-600, being a newer design, is more affected by the chip shortages and logistics snafus, and Ford just isn't capable of producing as many of them right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, SoonerLS said: Possibly, but I wonder if the F-600, being a newer design, is more affected by the chip shortages and logistics snafus, and Ford just isn't capable of producing as many of them right now. Ford looks to be favouring Super Duty production a KTP and Avon Lake, even over full F150 production at DTP and KCAP. Last month, they looked to have produced about 1500 MDs with about 3500 in inventory by the end of the month. I should have some idea of F600 sales in the next week or so, for obvious reasons, Ford likes to hold those break outs close to its chest. What Bob said with regards to GVW seems to ring true, the F600 being just an extension of F550 to 22,000 for certain operators is probably true and less costly than going to 26,000 of an F650.<—- those that need them keep buying but F750 not so much… Edited October 10, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Could be that the 22,000 GVW F600 is an "in between" size that not many buyers want- The 19,500 F550 is the biggest operators who need to pull a trailer without the IRS demanding FET want, and the 26,000 GVW F650 is popular because it's just under the CDL requirement and avoids fuel tax prorating in some states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) Also F550 starts at $41k, F600 starts at $45k and F650 starts at $59k Ford has done it’s homework on the need for F600 and 22,000 GVW, probably picking up those buyers just over that F550 19,500 limit but wanting something costing a lot less than F650 Edited October 11, 2021 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 I'm seeing a lot of new F750's here around Connecticut. Also Explorers and Broncos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Joe771476 said: I'm seeing a lot of new F750's here around Connecticut. Also Explorers and Broncos. Joe-and I would bet a high percentage of those have 25,999 plates but are derated 33,000 lb trucks-everything is about avoiding the need for CDL drivers. In any case good news if you are seeing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 I pulled up next to an old L9000 dump truck today. Fond memories of the old L series. In my opinion those trucks were far ahead of their time. If they were introduced today they would probably still be sought after trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 35 minutes ago, Stray Kat said: I pulled up next to an old L9000 dump truck today. Fond memories of the old L series. In my opinion those trucks were far ahead of their time. If they were introduced today they would probably still be sought after trucks. Was working at a Mercury dealer in late '69 when the Ford dealer kiddy-corner from us had their first Louisville come in. We (and I mean we, seemed like everyone from the Mercury dealer found an excuse to walk over to the Ford dealer that day) were amazed that even this lowly LN500 with a 300 six got such top of the market features- tilt hood, well laid out instrument panel, even constant velocity joints in the steering shaft so it wouldn't bind! For several years the only medium/heavy truck that could compete with the Louisville was Mack's R and U models, good company to be compared with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 5 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said: Was working at a Mercury dealer in late '69 when the Ford dealer kiddy-corner from us had their first Louisville come in. We (and I mean we, seemed like everyone from the Mercury dealer found an excuse to walk over to the Ford dealer that day) were amazed that even this lowly LN500 with a 300 six got such top of the market features- tilt hood, well laid out instrument panel, even constant velocity joints in the steering shaft so it wouldn't bind! For several years the only medium/heavy truck that could compete with the Louisville was Mack's R and U models, good company to be compared with. Gosh that brought back memories. The LN 500 did indeed have the 300 six as a base engine. Albeit with a forged steel crank as opposed to the more common cast version. I remember getting to drive an LN600 single axle dump with a FT361HD V8. That was a thrill for me at 16 years of age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Think about it gang in the 70’s and most of the 80’s Ford was rocking B, C, F, and L series trucks and in my opinion kind of dominating large portions of the markets they were in. An LN and a C series with some modern updates and the 7.3 gas and 6.7 diesel would really make people think twice about them. Don’t get me wrong the F trucks are good but the visibility and serviceability out of the old L and C series was legendary. Dang I miss the old Ford. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 Stray Kat and Teamster... you need a "fix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 15, 2021 Share Posted October 15, 2021 8 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Stray Kat and Teamster... you need a "fix I apologize if I posted this before. I took this about two years ago during the fall cranberry harvest on Cape Cod. That LN 9000 still with original owner. It will be back on duty any day now. To the right is a 2000 F 750-the pipe is coming from the picker that separates the berries from stems and that flows to the 750. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 My employer didn't own many Louisville's, but did have few interesting ones. Early on we had an LT900 with a 534 in it. We also had a number of 1995 L8000 5 yd. dumps with the 'Ford 1460' Cummins 8.3 in them. I was told at the time we bought them they were some of the last Louisville's built. For that application we usually bought International severe service S series with DT466's, but Ford won the bid that year, probably because Louisville production was winding down. I remember in the late 80's-early 90's Ford tried hard to get a bigger slice of the O/O market with dolled up LTL's and Aeromax's. Lots of custom paint, chrome, and large Able Body sleepers, some splashy ads, and a pretty good slogan: 'Together We Will Run The Country'. It really didn't work, the Louisville had a rep. for being a cheap fleet truck. Which it pretty much was. However, the effort continued with the HN80 project, and believe it or not at least one long-nose LTL style HN80 prototype was built. It was shown at a couple of trucking trade shows very briefly before the Freightliner sell-out. When Freightliner bought Ford's heavy truck operation their vision was that it be strictly a vocational line, and there was no place for a Sterling long nose O/O style tractor. Always wondered what happened to that special HN80. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 20 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: My employer didn't own many Louisville's, but did have few interesting ones. Early on we had an LT900 with a 534 in it. We also had a number of 1995 L8000 5 yd. dumps with the 'Ford 1460' Cummins 8.3 in them. I was told at the time we bought them they were some of the last Louisville's built. For that application we usually bought International severe service S series with DT466's, but Ford won the bid that year, probably because Louisville production was winding down. I remember in the late 80's-early 90's Ford tried hard to get a bigger slice of the O/O market with dolled up LTL's and Aeromax's. Lots of custom paint, chrome, and large Able Body sleepers, some splashy ads, and a pretty good slogan: 'Together We Will Run The Country'. It really didn't work, the Louisville had a rep. for being a cheap fleet truck. Which it pretty much was. However, the effort continued with the HN80 project, and believe it or not at least one long-nose LTL style HN80 prototype was built. It was shown at a couple of trucking trade shows very briefly before the Freightliner sell-out. When Freightliner bought Ford's heavy truck operation their vision was that it be strictly a vocational line, and there was no place for a Sterling long nose O/O style tractor. Always wondered what happened to that special HN80. 7M No doubt the Louisville was a good vocational truck. While you say it had a reputation of being a "cheap fleet truck", I thought of them as "best bang for the buck". And your comment on the O/O market is right on. I remember an ad featuring some O/O who was 6 ft-6, and he was extolling the room in his new Ford. I thought .."great, how many 6-6 guys are there but you will never win over the majority whose ultimate goal is to some day have a new Pete or KW." When the new HN-80 was on the drawing board, I think had Ford concentrated on what they did best-vocational-they might have survived. then again with "Jac the Knife" Nasser in charge, the only thing that mattered was the financial return and a broad product mix with varying returns was the last thing on his mind and the heavy truck faction at Ford lost the battle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/12/2021 at 11:36 AM, Bob Rosadini said: Joe-and I would bet a high percentage of those have 25,999 plates but are derated 33,000 lb trucks-everything is about avoiding the need for CDL drivers. In any case good news if you are seeing them. Thanks for that info. That Scotty Kilmer guy did a video on F-series from F150 all the way up to F750 and said that the 750's didn't need CDL drivers which puzzled me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Joe771476 said: Thanks for that info. That Scotty Kilmer guy did a video on F-series from F150 all the way up to F750 and said that the 750's didn't need CDL drivers which puzzled me. Joe- bottom line-take what some of these You Tube guys say with a grain of salt?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 On 10/10/2021 at 11:53 AM, Bob Rosadini said: JP No question that the GM/Navistar twins have to be having some impact. But my thought was these stats support the fact that 600 is not moving to the degree many thought it would-at least by these inventory figures-and my assumption that dealers order for stock what they think will move. Now I suppose some would say.."well there is no dealer inventory because they are moving off lots quickly". Perhaps-but I try to pay attention to what I see on street and can't say I see many. I would imagine big question is what is premium$$ for a 600 at 22,000 gvw vs a 550 at 19,500? My guess is if it is significant a lot of guys will take their chances with a 550 running "heavy" every now and then. Any sales guys out there with an opinion. Or better yet any sales stats on 600? FYI, September sales, F600………….615 F650……...1,068 F750………….162 It looks like F600 has settled into around 600/mth, F650 sales are still down a little and F750 never sets the world on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 6 hours ago, jpd80 said: FYI, September sales, F600………….615 F650……...1,068 F750………….162 It looks like F600 has settled into around 600/mth, F650 sales are still down a little and F750 never sets the world on fire. thx JP- would you have any history? Stats on 650 BEFORE 600 went into production would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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