Joe771476 Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) On 5/31/2022 at 8:56 PM, Bob Rosadini said: ...... and to continue the logic, the fact that VW owns International I guess that brand is dead. As is Mack given Volvo's ownership and for sure, it wasn 't bad enough that Daimler acquired Western Star but now the final nail in that coffin is WS no longer has its own cab. I'll stick to my minority opinion. The Scout name has value in my opinion. And as I get out of my 68 Bronco with its anemic 289 2 bbl. and 3 on the tree and get into my son's new Bronco with its turbo, 4 cylinders and 7 speed I'm not at all turned off but rather appreciate the continuation of the name. But I guess further evidence of my age? Daimler/Freightliner keeps WS so the boys in the US northwest corner and Canada don't go bonkers! The numbers aren't that great. Edited June 10, 2022 by Joe771476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 10, 2022 Author Share Posted June 10, 2022 On 6/8/2022 at 2:09 PM, 7Mary3 said: Looks like everyone took a beating in class 6 sales this month. Figuring at least a third of Ford's class 6 sales were F-600 and class 7 sales are almost nonexistent, I am stating to doubt the 650 and 750 have much of a future. About the new plant, it really doesn't look very large compared to the existing facility. Maybe only 30%. I'll say it again: I dare Ford to drop F650/750! Do it right now! And watch your class 1-5 go down the tubes! If Ford drops mediums, Dodge/Ram will go into it! Right now there's too many players. But if Ford drops it, the vultures will swoop in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe771476 said: I'll say it again: I dare Ford to drop F650/750! Do it right now! And watch your class 1-5 go down the tubes! If Ford drops mediums, Dodge/Ram will go into it! Right now there's too many players. But if Ford drops it, the vultures will swoop in! Joe, even at low sales, the F650 is money for jam, with a starting price of $63k, they’re worthwhile building. lf the 63k price included spicer axles, Allison gearboxes, and Cummins engine, it probably wouldn’t be worthwhile to Ford as all the profit would be going to suppliers….I don’t know that for certain but the fact that Ford took everything in house speaks volumes for their desire to keep as much profit as possible. Also, I accept that the reason why F750 sales are low is exactly because it has none of the industry standard equipment I mentioned above and probably why Freightliner’s combined sales of class 6 & 7 trucks is four times Ford’s tally, International is double Ford’s tally Edited June 10, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 12 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Maybe this will cheer you up: Hah! 7M-thx I needed that. Open sequence I think shows OAP view and then a shot of KTP? Maybe a compilation of both-a lot of 450/500/600 shots-maybe those are KTP as OAP does those too but clearly a lot of OAP showing E series and 650/750 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Joe771476 said: One thing is for sure: Hino should just pack their bags! Hine is in the process of switching over to Cummins engines, I don't think they are actually producing any trucks at present. As for as I know they are still importing class 3/4 LCF's, but beyond that they are only selling down leftover inventory. They will be back soon in class 6 through baby 8 tandems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Daimler/Freightliner keeps WS so the boys in the US northwest corner and Canada don't go bonkers! The numbers aren't that great. Joe, Look around you -there are plenty of WS trucks around us. I did a post talking about WS using the Cascadia and 7M clarified that- WS vocationals are still the old cab. And I hate to say it but there are plenty of Mack fleets that are buying 'Stars. Just this morning I saw a new WS tractor pulling a trailer dump. A multi location ready mix /aggregate supplier. All the old mixers? rear discharge Mack DM's. All the new mixers? front discharge Oshkosh. Dumps-a lot of RD's still in service and CH tractors pulling dumps. But like I said, brand new WS pulling a dump. And this is an old school company...not corporate suits running it. Owner has a team of beautiful Clydesdales..and a CH sleeper that is in company colors and on weekends, he grabs it to pull horse trailer....or at least he did-was wrecked when a four wheeler pulled in front of it. Not sure what his horse puller is now..but again, all Mack fleet and a new Star in service. And as far as waving the American flag, if you really want to make your purchasing decision on that, your only choice now is a KW or a Pete☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 12 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Hah! 7M-thx I needed that. Open sequence I think shows OAP view and then a shot of KTP? Maybe a compilation of both-a lot of 450/500/600 shots-maybe those are KTP as OAP does those too but clearly a lot of OAP showing E series and 650/750 Something I like to do every so often is look at truck assembly plants on Google Earth or even Google Maps satellite pictures. These plants all have large holding lots for the finished trucks and you can get a pretty good idea what is actually being built. For instance looking at OHAP you usually see more E series cutaways than anything else, followed by a lot of 350-450-550-600 Super Duty cab and chassis and a fair number of 650/750's. What is interesting is that I have seen what looks like a few complete E series vans from time to time, I wonder if a few are still being produced for export or some special fleet orders. Navistar's Springfield plant is much the same, often huge numbers of GM Express/Savanna cutaway van chassis (Navistar builds these for GM) are visable, a large percentage with 'Penske Yellow' cabs. A lot of MV series trucks are usually present along with CV/Silverado mediums (easy to distinguish because of their sloped windshield). Funny the Navistar plant seems to have a number of lots all around it, and the new trucks seem scattered about nowhere near as well organized as OHAP. Probably the most interesting plant is the Spartan Motors/Shyft Group plant in Charlotte MI.. They assemble the Isuzu/Chevy LCF's along with Utilimaster van bodies, Spartan Fire apparatus, and their line of large RV chassis. Several small plants on the property, and LCF trucks all over the place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 15 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Hah! 7M-thx I needed that. Open sequence I think shows OAP view and then a shot of KTP? Maybe a compilation of both-a lot of 450/500/600 shots-maybe those are KTP as OAP does those too but clearly a lot of OAP showing E series and 650/750 At least part of that video is a few years old--note the V10 badge on one of the trucks. Didn't KTP used to build chassis cabs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Something I like to do every so often is look at truck assembly plants on Google Earth or even Google Maps satellite pictures. These plants all have large holding lots for the finished trucks and you can get a pretty good idea what is actually being built. For instance looking at OHAP you usually see more E series cutaways than anything else, followed by a lot of 350-450-550-600 Super Duty cab and chassis and a fair number of 650/750's. What is interesting is that I have seen what looks like a few complete E series vans from time to time, I wonder if a few are still being produced for export or some special fleet orders. Navistar's Springfield plant is much the same, often huge numbers of GM Express/Savanna cutaway van chassis (Navistar builds these for GM) are visable, a large percentage with 'Penske Yellow' cabs. A lot of MV series trucks are usually present along with CV/Silverado mediums (easy to distinguish because of their sloped windshield). Funny the Navistar plant seems to have a number of lots all around it, and the new trucks seem scattered about nowhere near as well organized as OHAP. Probably the most interesting plant is the Spartan Motors/Shyft Group plant in Charlotte MI.. They assemble the Isuzu/Chevy LCF's along with Utilimaster van bodies, Spartan Fire apparatus, and their line of large RV chassis. Several small plants on the property, and LCF trucks all over the place. If you use google earth on your laptop, zoom into the plants and hover your mouse over the image, it should give you the date the image was captured. That way you can see if it’s current or from last year… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 7M....DUH! Thx for tip on Google earth. I make a frequent use of Google earth but never thought to check out an assembly plant! And back when I was earning a living I was always using it to come up with order of magnitude numbers for projects..vs going to plan drawers. Also when dealing with new contractors? A view of their business quickly gave you a feel for scope of their operation...either a poser with leased office space or someone with the assets they claimed to have. Just looked at OHAP. Shocked at number of completed units...in particular the lot where trucks are decked on trailers or moved to rail cars. Going by colors, looks like a lot of Penskes as well as Buster Brown??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 5 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: 7M....DUH! Thx for tip on Google earth. I make a frequent use of Google earth but never thought to check out an assembly plant! And back when I was earning a living I was always using it to come up with order of magnitude numbers for projects..vs going to plan drawers. Also when dealing with new contractors? A view of their business quickly gave you a feel for scope of their operation...either a poser with leased office space or someone with the assets they claimed to have. Just looked at OHAP. Shocked at number of completed units...in particular the lot where trucks are decked on trailers or moved to rail cars. Going by colors, looks like a lot of Penskes as well as Buster Brown??? That’s fine but as I said above, how old is the image in google earth? if you go on google earth with a laptop, hover over the image with your mouse and the capture date should appear… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 (edited) May production numbers 149DD11A-A202-409B-AEB7-60980E23469B.webp Edited June 11, 2022 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Check out WS video..... https://www.heavyequipmentguide.ca/article/38190/video-western-star-introduces-its-new-x-series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Check out WS video..... https://www.heavyequipmentguide.ca/article/38190/video-western-star-introduces-its-new-x-series At this point why not just buy a Freightliner SD series and save a ton of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 35 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: At this point why not just buy a Freightliner SD series and save a ton of money. Because there is a segment that thinks WS is superior and built better...much like there are those that think GMC trucks are superior and built better than Chevy trucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 Since when is Western Star more expensive? I'm seeing Western Star win a lot of government purchases with lowest bids or bids not enough higher than International and Freightliner to take the lower bid. Add in Western Star's full slate of options and they're a serious competitor. And Ford? Not even in the running! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 3 hours ago, twintornados said: ...much like there are those that think GMC trucks are superior and built better than Chevy trucks Once upon a time, they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 13, 2022 Share Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said: Since when is Western Star more expensive? I'm seeing Western Star win a lot of government purchases with lowest bids or bids not enough higher than International and Freightliner to take the lower bid. Add in Western Star's full slate of options and they're a serious competitor. And Ford? Not even in the running! Sometimes a more expensive truck will win a bid if it requires less modifications for body/equipment installation than a cheaper truck. For this very reason the company I work for buys the more expensive Freightliner M2 over the Ford F-750. By the time the truck is outfitted the completed Freightliner is less expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 6 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Sometimes a more expensive truck will win a bid if it requires less modifications for body/equipment installation than a cheaper truck. For this very reason the company I work for buys the more expensive Freightliner M2 over the Ford F-750. By the time the truck is outfitted the completed Freightliner is less expensive. That's been a problem for Mack too- About 15 years ago they switched to Volvo chassis and Volvo wants to standardize where everything is mounted on the chassis to reduce costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted June 14, 2022 Share Posted June 14, 2022 12 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Sometimes a more expensive truck will win a bid if it requires less modifications for body/equipment installation than a cheaper truck. For this very reason the company I work for buys the more expensive Freightliner M2 over the Ford F-750. By the time the truck is outfitted the completed Freightliner is less expensive. Yes, someone I know works at an upfitter that only does snow plow and salt/liquid deicer bodies. According to him, International has an option where there are no mods or drilling of the frame required and the electrical system is just plug in and go. This saves several weeks in the process, and time is money also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 15, 2022 Author Share Posted June 15, 2022 On 6/14/2022 at 5:31 AM, lfeg said: Yes, someone I know works at an upfitter that only does snow plow and salt/liquid deicer bodies. According to him, International has an option where there are no mods or drilling of the frame required and the electrical system is just plug in and go. This saves several weeks in the process, and time is money also. I thought Ford mediums implemented this ease of upfitting several years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Joe771476 said: I thought Ford mediums implemented this ease of upfitting several years ago. They did with the move to Avon Lake with the post Blue Diamond F650/750.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 I think Ford made body installation easier than it was with the Blue Diamond trucks. International has taken body installation to a new level though, their trucks are quite literally 'plug and play' now. We ran into trouble with the F-650 because of limited options and our P.T.O. requirements, but I am told the Fords are easy to upfit for 'regular' bodies like flatbed, van, ect.. Which is what they are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 6/11/2022 at 3:25 AM, jpd80 said: If you use google earth on your laptop, zoom into the plants and hover your mouse over the image, it should give you the date the image was captured. That way you can see if it’s current or from last year… What is the street address of the Avon Lake factory or better yet, the coordinates? Meanwhile, I remember reading in here that Ford was bringing back the Maverick nameplate. Did they know back then that the recent Top Gun movie was coming out?! Hmmmm. Anyway, it was part of my father's day gift and I hadn't been to a movie theater in 30 years until yesterday. Very enjoyable and I spotted a 68-ish Bronco (Hi Bob!) and an Expedition I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Joe771476 said: What is the street address of the Avon Lake factory or better yet, the coordinates? Meanwhile, I remember reading in here that Ford was bringing back the Maverick nameplate. Did they know back then that the recent Top Gun movie was coming out?! Hmmmm. Anyway, it was part of my father's day gift and I hadn't been to a movie theater in 30 years until yesterday. Very enjoyable and I spotted a 68-ish Bronco (Hi Bob!) and an Expedition I believe. for sure Joe you did see an EB! And likewise one of my kids took me to see it a couple of weeks ago. Totally unrealistic script but what a movie should be..entertainment and a "feel good" ending without a social statement..other than maybe some pride in the military??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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