Jump to content

New Light & Medium Duty News


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

From what I understand, the 2023 Super Duty has an 'all new' cab, though it looks very similar to the 2017-2022 cab.  And yes, it is the same as the F-150.  As far as the 650 and 750 are concerned, as you know they currently use the old circa-1999 steel cab.  The 2024 650 and 750 should be out first quarter 2023, no idea at present if those trucks will adopt the new aluminum cab.

7M-thx for response.  My source said only change to 650/750 was the 10 speed replacing the 6.

And as for previous discussions  on 600 cannibalizing 650 sales, looking at stats JP has posted and what RC has posted I would say if anything 600 has taken 550 sales-which I think is logical.  The "big truck" appeal will stick with a certain class be it tilt hood or whatever while the GVW increase in 600 will appeal to the market that is more comfortable with the "smaller" cab-at least that is their perception..also easier getting in and out of 600 than 650

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

If you consider that class 4 and 5 are "medium", looking at those sales stats and throwing out class 8, Ford truly is the commercial "gorilla".

This is what I’ve often thought, that Ford’s heavier truck sales are grouped around class 2b, 3 & 4, (the F450 is an upgraded F350), the F550 & F600 are linked while the F650/F750 is another heavy design.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Estimates for August, September, and Q3

 

image.thumb.png.820e949a1574485b4f50d55c3b3f8724.png

 

image.thumb.png.adc32ba5aeeb1ddde3709ddb0563609a.png

 

image.thumb.png.d2b658c594b895afebac6568923da0bc.png

Thank you Rmc,

It’s obvious that F600 sales are coming from F650 sales that were in the 1600s pre-pandemic.

Ford is comfortable with that split of sales because the F600 is lower cost build, extension of F550.

Makes me wonder if F650/F750 remains because it’s money for jam and Ford wants it to stay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just came back from Parris Island SC to see my grandson graduate from Marine camp, and was pleased to see a high percentage of Ford mediums off and on the base. Most military, police vehicles and ambulances were Fords. Only other brand was Dodge.  On a side note, flying back to Boston over Rhode Island, I saw a windmill farm of about 8 windmills in RI.  Without googling it, anybody know where those windmills are?  Bob R?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/22/2022 at 8:00 PM, Rick73 said:

Betting the farm is risky if you don’t guess right, or can’t anticipate all market variables. 

 

Good point Rick73. With respect to medium-duty trucks, the position Ford is taking right now is to do R&D in both BEV and FCEV. A few months ago, Ford piloted a F-550 FCEV. Ford rolling out fuel cell F-550 utility truck | Hard Working Trucks

 

The quote below from Ford's executive of Research and Advanced Engineering demonstrates the opportunity cost and risk involved with the transition to ZEV. If the "application gaps" for BEV that Buczkowski mentioned are resolved sooner than later, FCEV could be a flop.

 

"For our wide spectrum of Ford Pro customers, there are application gaps that battery electric vehicles just can't fulfill yet, so we're looking at hydrogen fuel cells to power larger, heavier commercial vehicles while still delivering zero tailpipe emissions,” said Jim Buczkowski, executive director of Ford Research and Advanced Engineering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

ugh- couldn't open it but 4 model years?  that is a lot of 550's although I would imagine it involved one specific wheelbase-and probably a common application....like bucket trucks?

 

It involves a few different wheelbases with the Payload Plus package.  It only covers trucks with specific vocational bodies like aerial bucket, roll-back wreckers, service bodies with hoists and cranes, and roll-off refuse trucks.  No wonder, those are tough applications and those bodies are tricky to mount properly.  Bad thing is to perform the repair the body has to be removed in some instances (sounds like Ford may reimburse).     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, rperez817 said:

 

Good point Rick73. With respect to medium-duty trucks, the position Ford is taking right now is to do R&D in both BEV and FCEV. A few months ago, Ford piloted a F-550 FCEV. Ford rolling out fuel cell F-550 utility truck | Hard Working Trucks

 

The quote below from Ford's executive of Research and Advanced Engineering demonstrates the opportunity cost and risk involved with the transition to ZEV. If the "application gaps" for BEV that Buczkowski mentioned are resolved sooner than later, FCEV could be a flop.

 

 

 

 

 

I’m aware hydrogen could extend an F-550’s range (at relatively high cost), but don’t know how GHG reduction would compare to its ICE or BEV counterparts.  My limited understanding of hydrogen suggests GHG reduction depends greatly on process and energy source used in manufacturing.  Electrolysis using typical grid energy mix, as worst case,  is likely counterproductive.  Renewable energy changes that, but do we want to spend limited amount making hydrogen versus eliminating coal at a faster rate?  Until grid is mostly renewable or nuclear, I don’t see hydrogen playing a major role, if ever.  By then some future liquid eFuel may be a better option for large trucks.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Rick73 said:

I’m aware hydrogen could extend an F-550’s range (at relatively high cost), but don’t know how GHG reduction would compare to its ICE or BEV counterparts.  My limited understanding of hydrogen suggests GHG reduction depends greatly on process and energy source used in manufacturing.  Electrolysis using typical grid energy mix, as worst case,  is likely counterproductive.  Renewable energy changes that, but do we want to spend limited amount making hydrogen versus eliminating coal at a faster rate?  Until grid is mostly renewable or nuclear, I don’t see hydrogen playing a major role, if ever.  By then some future liquid eFuel may be a better option for large trucks.

 

Good points Rick73. In another thread topic, bzcat wrote this very helpful description of the technical issues associated with hydrogen fuel. I agree with you that FCEV applications for medium and heavy duty trucks will be limited for the foreseeable future. That doesn't make Ford's F-550 FCEV prototype a complete waste of effort, but hopefully Ford is aware of the issues that bzcat summarized.

 

On 9/14/2021 at 2:35 AM, bzcat said:

I work in the energy industry. I won't say which part but it's clear to anyone I work with who has even the slightest basic understanding of physics and the chemical process to make hydrogen that this is a road to nowhere.

 

Hydrogen only makes sense if you have abundant free or very cheap carbon electricity (so you can make it from water), and the consumption point is close to the source. The first part is not happening anytime soon. Any carbon free electricity we generate (hydro, nuclear, solar, wind etc) are more efficiently used directly to power the grid and charge batteries. The conversion to hydrogen waste too much energy so the math doesn't work.

 

Hydrogen doesn't exist in the nature by itself in liquid form so you have to make it. The only commercially viable way to make hydrogen now and the foreseeable future is from natural gas (CH4). All the money that is going into "clean" hydrogen is actually just oil companies and fracking interest trying to find a way to fool consumers and regulators. They don't tell you hydrogen is just a significantly less efficient way to use natural gas. The energy loss of a liter of hydrogen compare to natural gas is about 60% conservatively speaking... Even if we somehow make a breakthrough in technology and lower than to 50% (which again, is basically impossible), it's still not even close! We are better off just converting gasoline car to run on CNG if we want to keep using natural gas. But we don't because you know... climate change and all that carbon we are pumping into the atmosphere. Hydrogen doesn't solve climate problem, in fact, it makes it worse because it is very inefficient storage medium for fossil fuel energy.

 

Once you make the hydrogen, you have to super-chill (-423F!)  it to keep it in liquid form to transport it. This means you cannot use pipelines to transport hydrogen. Hydrogen has to be moved by refrigerated tanker trucks. And once at the dispensing location, the tank has to be super-chilled too. If temperature goes only a few degree higher, hydrogen starts to vaporize and tanks gets vapor locked and cannot dispense anymore liquid hydrogen. 

 

These are real problems that we can't overcome and still make hydrogen economically viable as a vehicle fuel. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs to read a basic college level physic or chemistry textbook. 

 

What does make sense is to use hydrogen in a limited way. For example, in a setting that doesn't involve transporting hydrogen long distances, like in a port or industrial park. Or in cases where batteries doesn't make sense because of weight or fire concerns like container ships. In those limited use cases, hydrogen makes a lot of sense. You can produce hydrogen at a port and use it to power all the trucks and cranes that operates at the port and fuel container ships - when you produce and consume hydrogen almost immediately in the same place, you eliminate the transportation and storage issue and things start to make more sense. 

 

Beyond that, the idea that one day you can go to a filling station in the small town in America and fill up on hydrogen is basically science fiction. The energy consumption required to make that tank of hydrogen, transported hundred of miles, then store it for days, weeks, if not month in super-chill storage is mind boggling. You might as well dream about retiring at lakeside vacation villa on Mars.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just came back from Parris Island SC to see my grandson graduate from Marine camp, and was pleased to see a high percentage of Ford mediums off and on the base. Most military, police vehicles and ambulances were Fords. Only other brand was Dodge.  On a side note, flying back to Boston over Rhode Island, I saw a windmill farm of about 8 windmills in RI.  Without googling it, anybody know where those windmills are?  Bob R?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted this earlier, that OEM's are having trouble building Type A school buses due to material shortages and delays.  As Buford T. Justice said, "What in the heck is the world coming to?"  World War III is going to be simply over natural resources as in fossil fuel, minerals/ore.(lithium, platinum etc.).  How much more is left?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

I posted this earlier, that OEM's are having trouble building Type A school buses due to material shortages and delays.  As Buford T. Justice said, "What in the heck is the world coming to?"  World War III is going to be simply over natural resources as in fossil fuel, minerals/ore.(lithium, platinum etc.).  How much more is left?

That was the case earlier this year but as of September, F Series Chassis is (Detroit Chassis) back over 2,000 builds (2,146)

September was a big month for F Series builds - maybe more than a few are incomplete this month?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/24/2022 at 9:42 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

I think Joe was referring to something on land-Block Island is an offshore field.

Yeah, the plane was going east and I was looking out the left side of the plane.  According to the plane's flight path displayed in front of me, we were over land and I could see buildings. These were on land and I was looking northward.  I read somewhere there's some windmills on I-93, south of Boston.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Yeah, the plane was going east and I was looking out the left side of the plane.  According to the plane's flight path displayed in front of me, we were over land and I could see buildings. These were on land and I was looking northward.  I read somewhere there's some windmills on I-93, south of Boston.

No clue on 93- but there are 4 big ones on Rt 25 in Wareham.. If you were on left side east bound you would not have seen  Cape  Cod bay off to right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/24/2022 at 9:42 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

I think Joe was referring to something on land-Block Island is an offshore field.

Well there's a new school bus postage stamp out and the school bus depicted is most likely an International/IC or could -- I say could -- be a Freightliner/Thomas.  But it is NOT a Bluebird!  Very discriminatory!  Especially from an agency such as the USPS that followed like sheep the practice of UPS and had all brand logos removed from their trucks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, ausrutherford said:

Well, this is a surprise...but a boring one at that.

 

JMC's new E-Luchun: https://www.autohome.com.cn/news/202211/1269981.html#pvareaid=6827541

 

1488x0_1_autohomecar__ChsFWWNp8myAF-9EAA

 

Wondering if they based this off the old Transit Custom platform. 

 

Not sure if this new Lushun van is related to Transit but the original Transit based Teshun is available in EV version.

 

https://www.autohome.com.cn/4922/#pvareaid=6834146

 

https://www.jmc.com.cn/config.html?brand_id=228&car_category=2

 

The MSRP of Lushun is lower than Teshun EV so it is more entry level EV offering by the looks of it. 

Edited by bzcat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Not sure if this new Lushun van is related to Transit but the original Transit based Teshun is available in EV version.

 

https://www.autohome.com.cn/4922/#pvareaid=6834146

 

https://www.jmc.com.cn/config.html?brand_id=228&car_category=2

 

The MSRP of Lushun is lower than Teshun EV so it is more entry level EV offering by the looks of it. 

The older RWD Transit and FWD Transit Custom were of similar stamped steel ladder frame construction 

so I think finding battery space under the frame rails like the later e-Transits would be a fairly straight forward process.

So my hunch is that this is JMC doing a clever rework of Gen 2 Transit platform with Chinese electrics of course….

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...