Rick73 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Guys, In the back of my mind wasn't that the way it was expressed years ago?? Yeah, not in my lifetime either. “Torque is a twisting or turning force that tends to cause rotation around an axis”, so units of measure can never be pounds per feet. Actual units are pounds “times” feet, not divided by. Most often it’s abbreviated to lb-ft or ft-lb instead of using lbXft. In science and engineering most numbers are meaningless without correct units, so it’s critical to get units right. The Internet doesn’t help when wrong units get repeated so often that some people start to think they are correct. It’s becoming a common problem, particularly in electrical discussions. Another error I find annoying is when an equipment supplier uses Watts per hour, or Watts/hour. Most of the time they mean to state Watt hours, or Wh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 On 5/22/2023 at 12:44 PM, 7Mary3 said: https://www.thewattcar.com/home/binary-thinking-the-enemy-of-climate-friendly-transportation-solutions Great article, it ackowledeges the problems with binary thinking on the environmentalist side as well. Thanks for posting — some great points made. Agree extreme views often make opposite side dig in and take extreme positions of their own to balance things out. Electrification is a good example when focus is solely on building BEVs and doesn’t address where “clean” electricity will come from in a realistic manner. I’m glad to see Bill Gates and a few others are starting to revisit nuclear as a necessary evil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 It appears the medium duty U-Haul truck that crashed through a gate in Washington DC is an F650. Anybody else come to that conclusion? No wonder, since I see a ton of them around the Northeast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Latest "Ford" from Otosan.......doesn't look like a warmed over Cargo cab..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liy_MR3eVP0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Japan specific Toyota, Daimler Truck, Hino and Mitsubishi Fuso join forces https://www.autoblog.com/2023/05/30/toyota-daimler-mitsubishi-truck-partnership/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lfeg Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 In the engineering world (soon to be 50 years in it) we use pound-foot for torque and foot -pound for energy. I worked mostly in the SI (metric) world and used Newton-meters for torque and joules for energy. When I was learning the ropes it was explained that torque was a force (the pound) acting over a distance (the foot) and that potential energy was the distance (foot) that a weight (pound) was above the ground plane surface. I do not know how torque got switched around in the language, but when you are doing calculations it can make a difference, as I have seen some people believing that torque = energy since both are stated in foot pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 4 hours ago, silvrsvt said: Japan specific Toyota, Daimler Truck, Hino and Mitsubishi Fuso join forces https://www.autoblog.com/2023/05/30/toyota-daimler-mitsubishi-truck-partnership/ Maybe the rumor I heard about Toyota spinning Hino off.....is more than a rumor. Daimler Truck bought Fuso out years ago, and since that time has not done much with it other than sharing some (large) diesel engine platforms and bail out of the North American market. Keep iamweasel's comments in mind. You never know, this agreement may have a bearing on Hino's continued presence in the North American market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 9 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Latest "Ford" from Otosan.......doesn't look like a warmed over Cargo cab..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liy_MR3eVP0 Saying this is a "Ford" is like saying all Chinese made Fords are "Ford"s. JV Fords are still Fords. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted May 31, 2023 Share Posted May 31, 2023 20 hours ago, ausrutherford said: Saying this is a "Ford" is like saying all Chinese made Fords are "Ford"s. JV Fords are still Fords. Correct, Ford Otosan is the name of the company, not Otosan. Ford Otosan is synonymous with Ford Turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 2, 2023 Author Share Posted June 2, 2023 Why don't they use the blue oval logo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Why don't they use the blue oval logo? The entity Ford Otosan is a joint venture like Auto Alliance, BlueOval SK, Chang'an Ford, JMC, or Ford Lio Ho. So it has its own logo. These are all primarily production oriented joint ventures. But all the vehicles it produce are designed by Ford and carry the blue oval logo: Transit, Transit Custom, Transit Courier, EcoSport, Puma, Cargo, F-Max If we think a vehicle produced by Ford Otosan is not a real Ford, then neither are Ranger produced by Auto Alliance, nor anything produced in China by Chang'an Ford and JMC. Edited June 2, 2023 by bzcat 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 It will be interesting to see where Ford Otosan's heavy truck business goes. I don't think they have the resources to go it alone concerning electrification/fuel cells, so I figure they may either form a JV with another manufacturer or simply stay in markets like Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: It will be interesting to see where Ford Otosan's heavy truck business goes. I don't think they have the resources to go it alone concerning electrification/fuel cells, so I figure they may either form a JV with another manufacturer or simply stay in markets like Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. They have already moved into Central and Western Europe and Africa. They are in 48 markets as of March: https://www.fordtrucksglobal.com/denmark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Another good month for F Series in May with over 70,000 sales. https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/files/doc_news/2023/06/ford-may-2023-u-s-sales-data.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 On 5/30/2023 at 8:29 AM, Bob Rosadini said: Latest "Ford" from Otosan.......doesn't look like a warmed over Cargo cab..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liy_MR3eVP0 The beauty of that unit is that while COE designs don't really make sense in the NA market, the chassis components could be used in F650/750/future medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 On 6/3/2023 at 4:02 AM, jpd80 said: Another good month for F Series in May with over 70,000 sales. https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/files/doc_news/2023/06/ford-may-2023-u-s-sales-data.pdf jpd80, is there a breakdown of hybrid sales similar to that of BEVs? BEVs are Lightning, Mach-E, and E-Transit combined which are listed separately, but I’m curious which hybrid vehicles are driving the 20% growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 4, 2023 Share Posted June 4, 2023 5 hours ago, Rick73 said: jpd80, is there a breakdown of hybrid sales similar to that of BEVs? BEVs are Lightning, Mach-E, and E-Transit combined which are listed separately, but I’m curious which hybrid vehicles are driving the 20% growth. Unfortunately no, I haven’t seen any breakout of hybrids like that, it would be interesting to know the depth of electrification sales across the vehicles Ford currently offers… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 On 6/2/2023 at 12:10 PM, 7Mary3 said: It will be interesting to see where Ford Otosan's heavy truck business goes. I don't think they have the resources to go it alone concerning electrification/fuel cells, so I figure they may either form a JV with another manufacturer or simply stay in markets like Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. Ford's truck operations are a bit tactical and regional not strategic and global. The three parts (Ford Otosan, JMC, Ford US) are operating separately and there isn't much synergy. Really not sure what Farley wants to do but transition to ZEV will not work on regional basis. None of the 3 surviving truck operations generate enough cash to justify the investment so Ford may be just going to sit on the business and see what happens. The US ops can always leverage off F-Series investments and limp along. Ford Otosan and JMC would have to bend together and find a way out. The problem is Ford Otosan is focused on heavy duty while JMC is exclusively medium duty... no synergy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 Just a quick off topic blurb: I was watching Modern Marvels: Heavy Machinery episode and the first mfr. to use a robot was GM in a New Jersey plant back a few decades. Same episode revealed a construction equipment mfr. in Georgia called Sany builds all its products by hand. I never even heard of this company! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 3 hours ago, bzcat said: Ford's truck operations are a bit tactical and regional not strategic and global. The three parts (Ford Otosan, JMC, Ford US) are operating separately and there isn't much synergy. Really not sure what Farley wants to do but transition to ZEV will not work on regional basis. None of the 3 surviving truck operations generate enough cash to justify the investment so Ford may be just going to sit on the business and see what happens. The US ops can always leverage off F-Series investments and limp along. Ford Otosan and JMC would have to bend together and find a way out. The problem is Ford Otosan is focused on heavy duty while JMC is exclusively medium duty... no synergy. Good points, and none of the current commercial trucks produced by Otosan or JMC would be successful in North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 This just in: https://news.gm.com/newsroom.detail.html/Pages/news/us/en/2023/jun/0605-flint.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 9 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Just a quick off topic blurb: I was watching Modern Marvels: Heavy Machinery episode and the first mfr. to use a robot was GM in a New Jersey plant back a few decades. Same episode revealed a construction equipment mfr. in Georgia called Sany builds all its products by hand. I never even heard of this company! Joe-Sany is a large Chinese co. Never knew they built anything here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Seems like this might be of interest to some of y'all. F550 PSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 CCJ Daily Report today has big article on Mack MD series..."nothing short of success". Goes on to say the class 6 and 7's are now at 5% market share and following rollout in September 2020 they built their 10,000th in Feb. of this year!! And Ford can't afford to engineer in air brakes for a 650/750 with gasoline power.. Mack's president goes on to say..."The visibility is fantastic. The ride is great, and then of course we came to market with what was already the accepted components, right? Allison transmissions, Cummins B6.7, Meritor....its what people know, what they're comfortable with and certainly now for Mack what they're buying". And yes, I understand how much Ford makes with a proprietary engine/trans as the only option. I just think it is foolish to leave so many incremental sales on the table that would serve to lower Ford's unit costs at OAP. And to those who say those incremental sales would come at the expense of Ford's proprietary driveline I would say for sure..but at a very low percentage vs the gain. Many buyers would be willing to accept the less than state of art cab, but not the big ticket power train items. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 The Mack MD seems to be doing well to me, just based on the number I am seeing. I assume it's priced competitively with Freightliner and International. And also for what it's worth, I am seeing very few Ford F-650's with the 7.3L gas V-8. Maybe Ford is having second thoughts about making air brakes available on gas engine trucks due to sales volume? Ford is really pushing class 3-4-5 and Transit commercial sales to small fleets these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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