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51 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

Guys,

 

In the back of my mind wasn't that the way it  was expressed years ago??


Yeah, not in my lifetime either.  “Torque is a twisting or turning force that tends to cause rotation around an axis”, so units of measure can never be pounds per feet.  Actual units are pounds “times” feet, not divided by.   Most often it’s abbreviated to lb-ft or ft-lb instead of using lbXft.

 

In science and engineering most numbers are meaningless without correct units, so it’s critical to get units right.  The Internet doesn’t help when wrong units get repeated so often that some people start to think they are correct.  It’s becoming a common problem, particularly in electrical discussions.  Another error I find annoying is when an equipment supplier uses Watts per hour, or Watts/hour.  Most of the time they mean to state Watt hours, or Wh.

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On 5/22/2023 at 12:44 PM, 7Mary3 said:

https://www.thewattcar.com/home/binary-thinking-the-enemy-of-climate-friendly-transportation-solutions

 

Great article, it ackowledeges the problems with binary thinking on the environmentalist side as well.


Thanks for posting — some great points made.  Agree extreme views often make opposite side dig in and take extreme positions of their own to balance things out.

 

Electrification is a good example when focus is solely on building BEVs and doesn’t address where “clean” electricity will come from in a realistic manner.  I’m glad to see Bill Gates and a few others are starting to revisit nuclear as a necessary evil.

 

 

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In the engineering world  (soon to be 50 years in it) we use pound-foot for torque and foot -pound for energy. I worked mostly in the SI (metric) world and used Newton-meters for torque and joules for energy. When I was learning the ropes it was explained that torque was a force (the pound) acting over a distance (the foot) and that potential energy was the distance (foot) that a weight (pound) was above the ground plane surface. I do not know how torque got switched around in the language, but when you are doing calculations it can make a difference, as I have seen some people believing that torque = energy since both are stated in foot pounds.

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4 hours ago, silvrsvt said:

 

Maybe the rumor I heard about Toyota spinning Hino off.....is more than a rumor.  Daimler Truck bought Fuso out years ago, and since that time has not done much with it other than sharing some (large) diesel engine platforms and bail out of the North American market.  Keep iamweasel's comments in mind.  You never know, this agreement may have a bearing on Hino's continued presence in the North American market. 

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20 hours ago, ausrutherford said:

 

Saying this is a "Ford" is like saying all Chinese made Fords are "Ford"s. JV Fords are still Fords. 

 

Correct, Ford Otosan is the name of the company, not Otosan. Ford Otosan is synonymous with Ford Turkey. 

 

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2 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Why don't they use the blue oval logo?  

 

The entity Ford Otosan is a joint venture like Auto Alliance, BlueOval SK, Chang'an Ford, JMC, or Ford Lio Ho. So it has its own logo. These are all primarily production oriented joint ventures. 

 

But all the vehicles it produce are designed by Ford and carry the blue oval logo: Transit, Transit Custom, Transit Courier, EcoSport, Puma, Cargo, F-Max

 

If we think a vehicle produced by Ford Otosan is not a real Ford, then neither are Ranger produced by Auto Alliance, nor anything produced in China by Chang'an Ford and JMC.

 

 

 

Edited by bzcat
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It will be interesting to see where Ford Otosan's heavy truck business goes.  I don't think they have the resources to go it alone concerning electrification/fuel cells, so I figure they may either form a JV with another manufacturer or simply stay in markets like Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.  

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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

It will be interesting to see where Ford Otosan's heavy truck business goes.  I don't think they have the resources to go it alone concerning electrification/fuel cells, so I figure they may either form a JV with another manufacturer or simply stay in markets like Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.  

They have already moved into Central and Western Europe and Africa.

 

They are in 48 markets as of March: https://www.fordtrucksglobal.com/denmark

 

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On 6/3/2023 at 4:02 AM, jpd80 said:

Another good month for F Series in May with over 70,000 sales.

 

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/files/doc_news/2023/06/ford-may-2023-u-s-sales-data.pdf


jpd80, is there a breakdown of hybrid sales similar to that of BEVs?  BEVs are Lightning, Mach-E, and E-Transit combined which are listed separately, but I’m curious which hybrid vehicles are driving the 20% growth.

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5 hours ago, Rick73 said:


jpd80, is there a breakdown of hybrid sales similar to that of BEVs?  BEVs are Lightning, Mach-E, and E-Transit combined which are listed separately, but I’m curious which hybrid vehicles are driving the 20% growth.

Unfortunately no, I haven’t seen any breakout of hybrids like that, it would be interesting to know 

the depth of electrification sales across the vehicles Ford currently offers…

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On 6/2/2023 at 12:10 PM, 7Mary3 said:

It will be interesting to see where Ford Otosan's heavy truck business goes.  I don't think they have the resources to go it alone concerning electrification/fuel cells, so I figure they may either form a JV with another manufacturer or simply stay in markets like Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.  

 

Ford's truck operations are a bit tactical and regional not strategic and global. The three parts (Ford Otosan, JMC, Ford US) are operating separately and there isn't much synergy. Really not sure what Farley wants to do but transition to ZEV will not work on regional basis. None of the 3 surviving truck operations generate enough cash to justify the investment so Ford may be just going to sit on the business and see what happens. The US ops can always leverage off F-Series investments and limp along. Ford Otosan and JMC would have to bend together and find a way out. The problem is Ford Otosan is focused on heavy duty while JMC is exclusively medium duty... no synergy.

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Just a quick off topic blurb: I was watching Modern Marvels: Heavy Machinery episode and the first mfr. to use a robot was GM in a New Jersey plant back a few decades. Same episode revealed a construction equipment mfr. in Georgia called Sany builds all its products by hand. I never even heard of this company!

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3 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Ford's truck operations are a bit tactical and regional not strategic and global. The three parts (Ford Otosan, JMC, Ford US) are operating separately and there isn't much synergy. Really not sure what Farley wants to do but transition to ZEV will not work on regional basis. None of the 3 surviving truck operations generate enough cash to justify the investment so Ford may be just going to sit on the business and see what happens. The US ops can always leverage off F-Series investments and limp along. Ford Otosan and JMC would have to bend together and find a way out. The problem is Ford Otosan is focused on heavy duty while JMC is exclusively medium duty... no synergy.

 

Good points, and none of the current commercial trucks produced by Otosan or JMC would be successful in North America.

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9 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Just a quick off topic blurb: I was watching Modern Marvels: Heavy Machinery episode and the first mfr. to use a robot was GM in a New Jersey plant back a few decades. Same episode revealed a construction equipment mfr. in Georgia called Sany builds all its products by hand. I never even heard of this company!

Joe-Sany is a large Chinese co.  Never knew they built anything here.

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CCJ Daily Report today has  big article on Mack MD series..."nothing short of success".  Goes on to say the class 6 and 7's are now at 5% market share and following rollout in September 2020 they built their 10,000th in Feb. of this year!!

 

And Ford can't afford to engineer in air brakes for a 650/750 with gasoline power..:doh:

Mack's president goes on to say..."The visibility is fantastic.  The ride is great, and then of course  we came to  market with what was already the  accepted components, right?  Allison transmissions, Cummins B6.7, Meritor....its what people know, what they're comfortable with and certainly now for  Mack what they're buying".

 

And  yes, I understand how much Ford makes with a proprietary engine/trans as the only option.  I  just think it is foolish to leave so many incremental sales on the table that would serve to lower Ford's unit costs at OAP.  

 

And to  those who say those incremental sales would come at the expense of  Ford's proprietary driveline I would  say for sure..but at a very low percentage vs the gain.

Many buyers would be willing  to accept the less than state of art cab, but not the big ticket power train items.

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The Mack MD seems to be doing well to me, just based on the number I am seeing.  I assume it's priced competitively with Freightliner and International.  

 

And also for what it's worth, I am seeing very few Ford F-650's with the 7.3L gas V-8.  Maybe Ford is having second thoughts about making air brakes available on gas engine trucks due to sales volume?

 

Ford is really pushing class 3-4-5 and Transit commercial sales to small fleets these days.    

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