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Joe771476

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Indiana and other states are using VW dieselgate money to buy a lot of propane school buses (mostly Bluebird Vision with the Roush 6.8 L Ford).  Thanks VW!!!!!!!!!!  But isn't that the V10?  I thought it was being discontinued but the Bluebird site is still saying 6.8. 

Edited by Joe771476

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6 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Indiana and other states are using VW dieselgate money to buy a lot of propane school buses (mostly Bluebird Vision with the Roush 6.8 L Ford).  Thanks VW!!!!!!!!!!  But isn't that the V10?  I thought it was being discontinued but the Bluebird site is still saying 6.8. 

7.3 isn't out yet.

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58 minutes ago, MY93SHO said:

7.3 isn't out yet.

I would be willing to wager that Roush has a few already for testing..

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7 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

Indiana and other states are using VW dieselgate money to buy a lot of propane school buses (mostly Bluebird Vision with the Roush 6.8 L Ford).  Thanks VW!!!!!!!!!!  But isn't that the V10?  I thought it was being discontinued but the Bluebird site is still saying 6.8. 

Are they 'mostly' Bluebird Visions?  I was under the impression the 6.8L was already out of production.  Of course it is possible Roush has new engines in a warehouse somewhere, but remember that both Thomas and IC Bus are offering propane fueled school buses now using the PSI 8.8L.  I bring this up because my local district has bought many propane fueled buses in the last few years.  They started with Bluebirds, but switched to Thomas and IC.  I am told the PSI engine is more reliable and lasts longer than the 6.8L on propane.

In any event, it's all be certain there will be propane versions of the 7.3L shortly, and I expect it to be a superior engine to the 6.8L.

  

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7 hours ago, twintornados said:

I would be willing to wager that Roush has a few already for testing..

I'd wager that Roush was involved in the design process.

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3 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I'd wager that Roush was involved in the design process.

I think that would be safe to say.......

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July 

Vehicle..........  07-19.....07-18........%........7Mth-19.....7Mth-18..........%
Class 4 ............ 1,820 ......2,457 ..–25.9........15,256 .......19,317 .........–21.0
Class 5 .............4,081 ......3,946 ......3.4 .......30,891 ........29,828 .............3.6
Class 6 ............ 2,672 ......2,005 ....33.3 .......14,994 ........12,015 ...........24.8
Class 7 ................205 ........185 .....10.8 .........1,263 .............966 ...........30.7
Class 8 ..................15 ............7 ...114.3 ..............74................72 .............2.8
Ford ................8,793 ....8,600 ......2.2 ......62,479 .......62,198 ............0.5

 

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20 hours ago, jpd80 said:

July 

Vehicle..........  07-19.....07-18........%........7Mth-19.....7Mth-18..........%
Class 4 ............ 1,820 ......2,457 ..–25.9........15,256 .......19,317 .........–21.0
Class 5 .............4,081 ......3,946 ......3.4 .......30,891 ........29,828 .............3.6
Class 6 ............ 2,672 ......2,005 ....33.3 .......14,994 ........12,015 ...........24.8
Class 7 ................205 ........185 .....10.8 .........1,263 .............966 ...........30.7
Class 8 ..................15 ............7 ...114.3 ..............74................72 .............2.8
Ford ................8,793 ....8,600 ......2.2 ......62,479 .......62,198 ............0.5

 

Nice to see the 650/750 numbers up.  But as I've said before, driving the interstate system here in New England,  I just don't see them.  HIno? --another story.  Local Jerr Dan dealer must  have  about 15 class 6 Hino ramp trucks completed and sitting on the lot- my guess is  pool vehicles ordered  for stock.  When it comes to class 4/5 hydraulic booms, mostly Fords  with  few  Dodges thrown in.  Have yet to  see an International or Chevy class 4,5, 6 there.

Altech yard still full of Ford class 4 and 5's and a couple of Dodges-no GM/Internationals yet.  Remember how GM had commented in one of their introductory videos about  how much the  Altech guys had remarked favorably?

Any opinions why the class 4 numbers are down so much?  Dodge putting money on the hood big time?

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19 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Nice to see the 650/750 numbers up.  But as I've said before, driving the interstate system here in New England,  I just don't see them.  HIno? --another story.  Local Jerr Dan dealer must  have  about 15 class 6 Hino ramp trucks completed and sitting on the lot- my guess is  pool vehicles ordered  for stock.  When it comes to class 4/5 hydraulic booms, mostly Fords  with  few  Dodges thrown in.  Have yet to  see an International or Chevy class 4,5, 6 there.

Altech yard still full of Ford class 4 and 5's and a couple of Dodges-no GM/Internationals yet.  Remember how GM had commented in one of their introductory videos about  how much the  Altech guys had remarked favorably?

Any opinions why the class 4 numbers are down so much?  Dodge putting money on the hood big time?

Thanks Bob,

Hino sales  for July and YTD,

Vehicle............  07-19.....07-18........%........7Mth-19.....7Mth-18..........%
Class 4 .................. 85 ...........64 .......32.8...........563 ..............770 ........–26.9
Class 5 .................226 .........130 .......73.8 .......1,494 ............1,403.............6.5
Class 6 ................ 701 .........583 .......20.2 .......4,353 ............4,612 ..........–5.6
Class 7 ................206 ..........153 ........34.6 .......1,203 ...........1,125 .............6.9
Hino ................1,218 .........930 .......31.0.......7,613 ..........7,910..........3.8

 

 

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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I have seen some of the International CVs around here, mostly with utility/service bodies. It is a good looking truck. Been in upstate NY and VT this week, I have seen some of the Chevy 5500/6500 on the road. There is a Chevy dealer in the Montpelier/Barre area that has quite a few of the 5500/6500 on the lot, so it looks as if some dealers are going to be aggressive with them. Also have seen quite a few of the Chevy Isuzu mediums on lots north of Saratoga.

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2 hours ago, lfeg said:

I have seen some of the International CVs around here, mostly with utility/service bodies. It is a good looking truck. Been in upstate NY and VT this week, I have seen some of the Chevy 5500/6500 on the road. There is a Chevy dealer in the Montpelier/Barre area that has quite a few of the 5500/6500 on the lot, so it looks as if some dealers are going to be aggressive with them. Also have seen quite a few of the Chevy Isuzu mediums on lots north of Saratoga.

have not seen one on the road yet.  I personally think they are ugly--"Bulbous" is the word but if I were a mechanic-or an owner paying today's high shop rates would I want a guy leaning over the hood of a 550 while standing on a platform, or standing inside of a front wheel well looking down on the  engine?   No  doubt the trucks will sell for this reason alone assuming the pricing is not out of line.  

Ball is in Ford and Dodge's court to match this IMO.

I probably posted this before but I frequent a friends truck repair shop.  When you peer into the hood of  a PowerStroke Ford that has been exposed  to 4 or 5 years of our winter conditions, it is a scary sight.  No doubt stuff corrodes- getting to it is another story.

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8 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

 

I probably posted this before but I frequent a friends truck repair shop.  When you peer into the hood of  a PowerStroke Ford that has been exposed  to 4 or 5 years of our winter conditions, it is a scary sight.  No doubt stuff corrodes- getting to it is another story.

You take the cab off. Been doing it since the 6.0 came out. My tech friend can have the cab off a 6.0 S.Duty in 1.5 hours.

 

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Kind of sad you have to remove the cab.  Anyway, I just came back from lower Maine on vaca and was surprised to see 2 or 3 Western Stars!  They must be out of a Canadian dealer.  Ogunquit is running a ton of new Ford class 2 thru 5 for rescue/ambulance and public works trucks.  I wouldn't be surprised if they use them for highway trucks, especially for plowing with the roads so narrow.  York still has their Chevy rescue/ambulances.  Oh, I did see ( I did, I really did!) a brand new  F-medium utility/bucket truck!   The name on the door was Consolidated, but I couldn't read any more to see if it was a cable TV truck or electric utility truck.  But they must have bought a batch of them, I would imagine.  One last thing:  There's an Isuzu/Hino dealer in town that now all of a sudden has brand new F-series mediums on the lot including a 4 door. Is this how Ford is beefing up dealer count?  So how does this work?  Unless a customer knows that he wants a certain brand, what is the salesman going to pitch?  I mean how do we know if Hino is paying a higher commission than Ford to the dealer/salesman?  The salesman isn't going to care what BRAND he sells.  He's going to sell the brand that pays him the most, right?  Or am I wrong about that system?  

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4 hours ago, MY93SHO said:

You take the cab off. Been doing it since the 6.0 came out. My tech friend can have the cab off a 6.0 S.Duty in 1.5 hours.

 

Agree that cab removal is one option PS owners have.  Some how I don't think that is a solution to the problem.  No doubt there are some repairs for which that is the only option.  To offer that as a "solution" is in a word bullshit IMO.  Its the nickel dime stuff that drives guys crazy-and all trucks IMO have it.  The key is how tough is it to make the repair.

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11 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

Kind of sad you have to remove the cab.  Anyway, I just came back from lower Maine on vaca and was surprised to see 2 or 3 Western Stars!  They must be out of a Canadian dealer.  Ogunquit is running a ton of new Ford class 2 thru 5 for rescue/ambulance and public works trucks.  I wouldn't be surprised if they use them for highway trucks, especially for plowing with the roads so narrow.  York still has their Chevy rescue/ambulances.  Oh, I did see ( I did, I really did!) a brand new  F-medium utility/bucket truck!   The name on the door was Consolidated, but I couldn't read any more to see if it was a cable TV truck or electric utility truck.  But they must have bought a batch of them, I would imagine.  One last thing:  There's an Isuzu/Hino dealer in town that now all of a sudden has brand new F-series mediums on the lot including a 4 door. Is this how Ford is beefing up dealer count?  So how does this work?  Unless a customer knows that he wants a certain brand, what is the salesman going to pitch?  I mean how do we know if Hino is paying a higher commission than Ford to the dealer/salesman?  The salesman isn't going to care what BRAND he sells.  He's going to sell the brand that pays him the most, right?  Or am I wrong about that system?  

Joe-what town was that Isuzu/Hino dealer in?  talk about covering the bases!

As for Western  Star, all sorts of them running around Central Mass.

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9 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

have not seen one on the road yet.  I personally think they are ugly--"Bulbous" is the word but if I were a mechanic-or an owner paying today's high shop rates would I want a guy leaning over the hood of a 550 while standing on a platform, or standing inside of a front wheel well looking down on the  engine?   No  doubt the trucks will sell for this reason alone assuming the pricing is not out of line.  

Ball is in Ford and Dodge's court to match this IMO.

I probably posted this before but I frequent a friends truck repair shop.  When you peer into the hood of  a PowerStroke Ford that has been exposed  to 4 or 5 years of our winter conditions, it is a scary sight.  No doubt stuff corrodes- getting to it is another story.

I was thinking this when GM did the last generation of the Kodiak/Top Kick, that the tilt hood for Class 4 and up was a good idea and was a plus for GM over Ford.  Granted, GM's bankruptcy probably had more to do with killing off the last generation of GM Mediums.  They were popular around here for Ambulances and I still see a few still in service as rollbacks.  I still haven't seen the GM/International mediums on the road around here.  Prince George's County, Maryland (outside Washington, DC) just ordered 8 new ambulances on the new Chevrolet Medium chassis.  The past few years they have been splitting their orders between Freightliner and Ram.

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40 minutes ago, hwyman3 said:

I was thinking this when GM did the last generation of the Kodiak/Top Kick, that the tilt hood for Class 4 and up was a good idea and was a plus for GM over Ford.  Granted, GM's bankruptcy probably had more to do with killing off the last generation of GM Mediums.  They were popular around here for Ambulances and I still see a few still in service as rollbacks.  I still haven't seen the GM/International mediums on the road around here.  Prince George's County, Maryland (outside Washington, DC) just ordered 8 new ambulances on the new Chevrolet Medium chassis.  The past few years they have been splitting their orders between Freightliner and Ram.

Likewise jup  ere there were a lot of  GM 4500's in EMS service.  City of Boston went pretty much then to In ternationsal and now Fords.  I suspect we will see the GM's returm.

Also some departments haver upsized to F'liners.

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19 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Likewise jup  ere there were a lot of  GM 4500's in EMS service.  City of Boston went pretty much then to In ternationsal and now Fords.  I suspect we will see the GM's returm.

Also some departments haver upsized to F'liners.

We had 2 departments in my area try the Terrastars.  One has already been retired.  Both have left International since, one went to ford, the other Freightliner.  Everyone in this area houses mediums went Freightliner.  Pickup based are mostly Ford, with some Ram mixed in.

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The Topkick/Kodiak were Express/Savana based cabs with a tilt nose....Ford could do the same with an Econoline cab from an E-450 with a tilt nose and create an E-550/650 medium variant to continue battle in the medium wars with Isuzu and Hino.

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2 hours ago, twintornados said:

The Topkick/Kodiak were Express/Savana based cabs with a tilt nose....Ford could do the same with an Econoline cab from an E-450 with a tilt nose and create an E-550/650 medium variant to continue battle in the medium wars with Isuzu and Hino.

TT,

Well on that note, I agree-except I  think that makes the case for a new cab that serves 450/550 chassis that are built at OAP plus 650, 750 and the E cut aways.  Ford currently uses 3 cab structures at OAP- aluminum 450/550, steel SD cab  for  650/ 750 and the E series steel  cab structure-for  which the dies must be about shot!

Seems like there should be some economics for a new cab that would work for all 3-perhaps based on Transit glass house??  I've posted  this thought before.

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4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

TT,

Well on that note, I agree-except I  think that makes the case for a new cab that serves 450/550 chassis that are built at OAP plus 650, 750 and the E cut aways.  Ford currently uses 3 cab structures at OAP- aluminum 450/550, steel SD cab  for  650/ 750 and the E series steel  cab structure-for  which the dies must be about shot!

Seems like there should be some economics for a new cab that would work for all 3-perhaps based on Transit glass house??  I've posted  this thought before.

Well, quite honestly, F650/750 cab can go aluminum and likely retain the same tilt (fiberglass) nose with an update to the nose to match the body lines of the aluminum cab. I am sure the stamping dies for E-Series cab structure have been replaced a few times...doubt they are using the same dies from last cab update.

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1 hour ago, twintornados said:

Well, quite honestly, F650/750 cab can go aluminum and likely retain the same tilt (fiberglass) nose with an update to the nose to match the body lines of the aluminum cab. I am sure the stamping dies for E-Series cab structure have been replaced a few times...doubt they are using the same dies from last cab update.

Even if they could not use the existing hood on the 650/750, it would be easy and inexpensive to come up with a new one to match the aluminum cab.  I understand why the 650/750 started off using the then-current steel Super Duty steel cab, but it does not seem to make much sense to not switch to the aluminum cab at some point.  I don't think a new purpose-designed cab is in the bards, there is just not enough volume to justify it. 

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It's probably easier to keep things as they are, the 450/550 (+ 600) Cabs are all shared with F150, F250, F350
while F650/F750 are amortized form older F Series, E-Series cab similar. The cost of change may outweigh
just leaving things as they are now.

Edited by jpd80

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I think eventually, they will have to use the current F-150 through 550 cab on the 650/750.  Like 7Mary3 said, am either modified current tilt hood or a new hood would be minimal change.  It might require a little design work, but I would think going from 3 different cabs to 2 at OAP would make sense.

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You're forgetting  the F600 due at the end of the year, maybe Ford wants to see  how that
affects F650 sales,  it may also be the excuse that Ford needs to reorganize MD and its cabs.

If F600 is a success then perhaps Ford  looks at  reorganizing F650/F750 to just one, F700 model
and a class 8 variant. Yeah, I'm getting way ahead of things here.....

Edited by jpd80

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