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Joe771476

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11 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

The 4.9 I6 was gas engine mated to a relatively short 4 speed auto. We are talking about a modern I6 turbo diesel and modern auto (even the 6 speed used in E-series seems outdated). Plus all the emission equipment required. I think it will take a pretty substantial surgery of the entire front half of the frame to make it work. My point was that if you are going thru all the trouble, you might as well design a whole new chassis that works with all the current and future drivetrains including EV and PHEV applications. 

 

I've always felt that the 3.2 5 cylinder diesel would have been a good fit in E-Series...

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19 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

For sure.   As for the E-Series, a consideration for sure  but as Transit gains  a following I would have to think the E will end up very low on the priority list.  

I don't know enough about the medium duty business, but I still see a lot of "box trucks" built on the E-Series chassis.

 

Anyone hoping for any significant upgrades on the Transit can forget about it !  Full frame ?  Nope !  How about dual rear wheel that go outside of the body (like all dually pickups).  Nope !  Why, ?  Because EU is in charge of the Transit.  Same reason there is RIDICULOUS second and third row seating.

 

Don't forget, E-Series is by far the most the most common platform for shuttle buses and Class C motor homes.  Those are worthwhile markets as long as Ford does not have to spend a lot on unique upgrades.

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3 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

I've always felt that the 3.2 5 cylinder diesel would have been a good fit in E-Series...

Not enough power for the E350 payload.  I guess you could put a 4.10 or 4.33 rear axle in it and a limit the RPM so it does blow itself up.

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19 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

For sure.  As many on this site have questioned-what would it take to bring the 9L Duratorque over from Otosan?  Or perhaps build off of its design?  

My gut says that it is too old of a design (and too big for Class 4-7) to be worth investing in.  Better off with a clean sheet.

 

19 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

For sure.And given the success of the 7.3 I would have to believe that will displace a lot  of potential diesel sales-in particular given the likely premium for a diesel option.

Do we know that yet ?

 

From my observation point, the usefulness of diesels in Class 4-7 is long past its peak.  Emission has emasculated the power and fuel economy is nothing exciting (especially since diesel sells for more than regular around here).  Add in the initial cost premium, the cost of DEF and those 4 GALLON oil changes with expensive filters and things don't look very promising for it future  Diesels niche is very high loads and very long hauls (>50K/year).

 

10 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Over the past 4 years, we have been phasing out our class 6 and 7 diesels, replacing them with CNG powered units.

 

Frito Lay delivery trucks in this area are all propane powered.  While propane may be more expensive than CNG, if you have your own pumping station with a large storage capacity you can negotiate non-seasonal prices and the conversion cost is much lower.

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4 hours ago, theoldwizard said:

My gut says that it is too old of a design (and too big for Class 4-7) to be worth investing in.  Better off with a clean sheet.

Well my thought is use of the Duratorque gets Ford into  an different class of engine far quicker and for sure with much less expense.  In particular when some will argue that electrics  are the not too distant future.

Any clue what it cost to  bring the 6.7 PS out?

Do we know that yet ?

I have to believe that is a given.  IIRC a consortium of  the tree service industry actually published some sort of paper asking for gasoline power as they were tired of the diesel issues associated with high engine idle hours and regen issues.  And your next statement actually supports the case for the 7.3.  As many of us have repeatedly said with words to the effect of..."If  you don't run the miles and pull/carry the weight  consistently gas is a better bet.  I think the only thing holding the 7.3 back  in 650/750 is lack of an air brake option and  that will be  addressed in...January??

 

From my observation point, the usefulness of diesels in Class 4-7 is long past its peak.  Emission has emasculated the power and fuel economy is nothing exciting (especially since diesel sells for more than regular around here).  Add in the initial cost premium, the cost of DEF and those 4 GALLON oil changes with expensive filters and things don't look very promising for it future  Diesels niche is very high loads and very long hauls (>50K/year).

 

 

Frito Lay delivery trucks in this area are all propane powered.  While propane may be more expensive than CNG, if you have your own pumping station with a large storage capacity you can negotiate non-seasonal prices and the conversion cost is much lower.

7M3's comments speak volumes as a current user

And now I'm headed down to my barn to pull the steering box out of my B-61X....Which sports a current inspection sticker and valid commercial plates.  Think any  new Paccar will still be on the road 60 years from now😎

 

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Speaking of the tree industry, CT and I imagine other states in New England got hit hard by Isaias.  Unfortunately Eversource intelligence said CT wouldn't be hit hard so they sent all their trucks and crews to the Carolinas!  Now Canadian crews are coming down!  I was eating lunch under a huge tent held down by 10  almost half-ton concrete blocks and 2 inch diameter metal rods buried in asphalt today and 15 Blue Diamond Asplundh F750's paraded by!  That tent had been up since outdoor dining started a couple months ago and I said it would never come down from a storm until it did a few days ago like it was a toy, those blocks were flipped over like Legos!  The storm was Tuesday, but he got it back up Thursday (yesterday)!

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if Ford wants to be taken seriously in class 7, they have to go into class 8.  Also, if a new medium duty cab/chassis is coming, it will only be financially feasible if class 8 is re-entered.  But I think VW (who will eventually own Navistar/International) ORDERED Ford to stay out of class 8.  Because if Ford does go into class 8 VOCATIONAL, Freightl'r and Intern'l and the rest are all done! 

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4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

if Ford wants to be taken seriously in class 7, they have to go into class 8.  Also, if a new medium duty cab/chassis is coming, it will only be financially feasible if class 8 is re-entered.  But I think VW (who will eventually own Navistar/International) ORDERED Ford to stay out of class 8.  Because if Ford does go into class 8 VOCATIONAL, Freightl'r and Intern'l and the rest are all done! 

Joe as always admire your passion for getting back into 8.  But real world, I would settle for a serious upgrade in 6 and 7 with an inline 6 diesel, an Allison option,  and a tandem axle with at least a 40,000 lb rating.  I see that as a least cost path to expand the "commercial" line and many will say..."Ford won't spend the bucks to do that given limited market share.

 

Then I look at this guy who is about to turn loose a kick ass Autocar conventional and I say..."how does a little guy like that do it?  But Ford can't?"  and to answer my own question, its not that they "can't", its more a question of the bean counters saying 'but we can make more money doing another SUV-or a unibody Maverick pick up"

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About $2300 (driveway install) to remove the epa garbage on any 6.7..we are on our 3rd conversion...crap is gone and it becomes a truck....20mpg on the 2012 6.7 (f350) without the choke hold on the diesel has been done......looking for a low mileage 2014 f350 now...the 7.3 can rot on the lot..not worth even considering

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31 minutes ago, snooter said:

About $2300 (driveway install) to remove the epa garbage on any 6.7..we are on our 3rd conversion...crap is gone and it becomes a truck....20mpg on the 2012 6.7 (f350) without the choke hold on the diesel has been done......looking for a low mileage 2014 f350 now...the 7.3 can rot on the lot..not worth even considering

And you have no state annual inspection that creates a problem?

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10 hours ago, snooter said:

About $2300 (driveway install) to remove the epa garbage on any 6.7..we are on our 3rd conversion...crap is gone and it becomes a truck....20mpg on the 2012 6.7 (f350) without the choke hold on the diesel has been done......looking for a low mileage 2014 f350 now...the 7.3 can rot on the lot..not worth even considering

 

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On 8/7/2020 at 4:31 AM, bzcat said:

They need to invest in a new medium duty chassis to make investment in I6 make sense. Don't think I6 can fit in the E-series and if you have to spend money to make it fit, you might as well look at a modern clean sheet design. 

 

Right now, E-series + F650/750 + stripped chassis doesn't add up enough volume for Ford to make a clean sheet new chassis design so I don't see any new engine investment happening. 

 

The big question is electrification. Ford hasn't really tipped its hand about how they will address this issue from both regulatory and demand standpoint. The answer can't be putting batteries in the ancient E-series. 

You'd be surprised, especially if there's room to do it.....

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I saw no reason to start a new thread in the Lounge forum, so let's relax and have some fun and just take the time to view the most fun you can have in 2-1/2 minutes!  In these trying times, we need a break!  No dancing girls (except for the ones bouncing out of their seats!), no lasers, no lip syncing, no smoke and mirrors. This was posted in 2016 of a live performance in 1964 and it has almost 36 million hits!  Forward it to some of your younger friends and relatives.  They'll thank you later!  Enjoy!

 

The Beatles - Twist & Shout - Performed Live On The Ed Sullivan Show 2/23/64 - YouTube

Edited by Joe771476

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