New Light & Medium Duty News

[7Mary3]

I think VW is alluding to the idea that 'Scout' will be a separate nameplate with it's own dealers, a move which would certainly make VW dealers mad it they would have to spend money and jump through hoops to get a Scout franchise.  I think 'Scout' along with Hummer are going to be huge hits as BEV SUV's with real off-road capabilities are going to be quite the rage very soon.  Word is that GM was planning a Wrangler/Bronco competitor but shelved it early on to focus resources on the Hummer program.  This has to this point worked towards Ford's advantage as there is nothing like making hay while the sun shines, but 5 years from now things could be different.  Maybe the Scout could spawn a next generation Bronco?   

Edited May 30, 2022 by 7Mary3

[bzcat]

On 5/29/2022 at 8:05 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Why wouldn't they stick with the Scouts roots...and bank on any possible loyalty from International diehards?

 

Is that a serious question? Scouts roots is crude BOF truck with underpowered engine and manual transmission. VW wants to sell vehicles not actively alienate potential buyers ?

[SoonerLS]

On 5/29/2022 at 10:05 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Why wouldn't they stick with the Scouts roots...and bank on any possible loyalty from International diehards?

Probably because the people who tend to be International diehards would also tend to be offended by seeing the name slapped on a VW.

[Bob Rosadini]

8 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Probably because the people who tend to be International diehards would also tend to be offended by seeing the name slapped on a VW.

...... and to continue the logic, the fact that VW owns International I guess that brand is dead.  As is Mack given Volvo's ownership and for sure, it wasn 't bad enough that Daimler acquired Western Star but now the final nail in that coffin is  WS no longer has its own cab.

I'll stick to my minority opinion.  The Scout name has value in my opinion. And as I get out of my 68 Bronco with its anemic 289 2 bbl. and 3 on the tree and get into my son's new Bronco with its turbo, 4 cylinders and 7 speed I'm not at all turned off but rather appreciate the continuation of the name.  But I guess further evidence of my age?

[7Mary3]

9 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Is that a serious question? Scouts roots is crude BOF truck with underpowered engine and manual transmission. VW wants to sell vehicles not actively alienate potential buyers ?

 

You forgot about the Scout's affinity for corrosion.  Rust was a big part of the Scout ownership experience.

[7Mary3]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

.....As is Mack given Volvo's ownership and for sure, it wasn 't bad enough that Daimler acquired Western Star but now the final nail in that coffin is  WS no longer has its own cab......

 

I think just the X series gets the Freightliner aluminum cab, the 4700/4900's continue with the old Western Star steel cab.  At least for the time being.  Funny that Navistar dumped their aluminum cabs, even the HX uses the International steel cab that dates back to 2001. 

[GearheadGrrrl]

The old Scout and IH enthusiasts are just that, old. Enthusiasts tend to pick their fave vehicles as teenagers, which puts the youngest old Scout enthusiasts in their 60s, at best good for maybe one sale of an expensive halo truck that won't be out for years. None the less, VW Group knows better than to offend the aging International loyalists, look at how they've kept old brands like SEAT and Skoda around. And as more Scania, MAN, and VW truck tech filters in to Internationals, VW Group will keep the International brand alive and started that with a big donation to one of the IH collectors clubs last year. 

[Bob Rosadini]

11 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

You forgot about the Scout's affinity for corrosion.  Rust was a big part of the Scout ownership experience.

As was the original Bronco...didn't stop Ford though from using the name again....now Pinto?  My  bet is they will pass on that?.  And G'grrl  ......that would put the typical Bronco enthusiast in his/her age in their 60's as well.

[iamweasel]

12 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

I think just the X series gets the Freightliner aluminum cab, the 4700/4900's continue with the old Western Star steel cab.  At least for the time being.  Funny that Navistar dumped their aluminum cabs, even the HX uses the International steel cab that dates back to 2001. 

 

4700, 4900 and 5700 are dead.  They will not be produced after this year.   

 

The WST X-Series is not the same cab as the FTL.  Does it look the same and have the same dimensions......yep....but they are constructed differently.  (More steel reinforcement in the WST cabs.)  This is a fantastic truck.....still strong enough to do whatever but fixed all the issues with the old WST cab.    

 

[Bob Rosadini]

1 hour ago, iamweasel said:

 

4700, 4900 and 5700 are dead.  They will not be produced after this year.   

 

The WST X-Series is not the same cab as the FTL.  Does it look the same and have the same dimensions......yep....but they are constructed differently.  (More steel reinforcement in the WST cabs.)  This is a fantastic truck.....still strong enough to do whatever but fixed all the issues with the old WST cab.

 

    "I"-thx for that info...would have thought for sure this was a cost saving move in terms of commonality of some components.  I guess to Western Star's credit they want to stick to their "tough truck" image.

Reminds me of my "youth" in late 60's.  We had a roving fleet maintenance chief who visited the terminals

on a regular basis. Get out of his car and put on his full length shop coat with the plastic pen protector in the pocket.  Even though we were a bulk hauler fleet where weight was critical, his frequent quote?..."Aluminum is only good for tea kettles".?

 

 

[7Mary3]

2 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

4700, 4900 and 5700 are dead.  They will not be produced after this year.   

 

The WST X-Series is not the same cab as the FTL.  Does it look the same and have the same dimensions......yep....but they are constructed differently.  (More steel reinforcement in the WST cabs.)  This is a fantastic truck.....still strong enough to do whatever but fixed all the issues with the old WST cab.    

 

 

Thanks for that info..  I liked the old Autocar cab!  I have not seen the new Star Car yet in person, but was inpressed by the International HX.

[SoonerLS]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:56 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

and to continue the logic, the fact that VW owns International I guess that brand is dead.  As is Mack given Volvo's ownership and for sure, it wasn 't bad enough that Daimler acquired Western Star but now the final nail in that coffin is  WS no longer has its own cab.

I'll stick to my minority opinion.  The Scout name has value in my opinion. 

I doubt most Scout fans care all that much about the big trucks. And I agree that the Scout name has value, but I don't think the Scout die-hards are going to be all that enthused by it being slapped on a VW (any more than they'd be enthused by it being slapped on a Ford or GM or anything else).

 

As for the youngest Scout fans being in their 60s, there's a Scout fan in my office who's in his 20s. When I was a teen, my across-the-cul-de-sac neighbor was an International dealer, and his son was a big-time Scout fan. He's a few years younger than I am, and I'm not in my 60s (my previous Lincoln ownership notwithstanding), so there are at least two non-geriatric Scout fans out there...  

[silvrsvt]

6 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I doubt most Scout fans care all that much about the big trucks. And I agree that the Scout name has value, but I don't think the Scout die-hards are going to be all that enthused by it being slapped on a VW (any more than they'd be enthused by it being slapped on a Ford or GM or anything else).

 

As for the youngest Scout fans being in their 60s, there's a Scout fan in my office who's in his 20s. When I was a teen, my across-the-cul-de-sac neighbor was an International dealer, and his son was a big-time Scout fan. He's a few years younger than I am, and I'm not in my 60s (my previous Lincoln ownership notwithstanding), so there are at least two non-geriatric Scout fans out there...  

 

When I lived in MD, someone in my neighborhood had a restored IH Scout, it was nice and the 6G Bronco shares a bit more with it styling wise vs the FSB, but that is also due partly to todays styling trends and safety concerns.

 

Given the fact that Gen X is hitting middle age and can afford things like this now, we are the biggest demographic and a used Scout in the late 1980s early 1990s wasn't too much of a stretch to afford since they where 10+ years old at that point. 

 

But I'm also not sure if the Scout name has the same impact that Bronco or even if GM was smart and used the Blazer name for an off road vehicle-but then again I guess they thought attaching the hummer name to a 100K+ BEV offroader was a better idea?

[Bob Rosadini]

11 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

I doubt most Scout fans care all that much about the big trucks. And I agree that the Scout name has value, but I don't think the Scout die-hards are going to be all that enthused by it being slapped on a VW (any more than they'd be enthused by it being slapped on a Ford or GM or anything else).

 

As for the youngest Scout fans being in their 60s, there's a Scout fan in my office who's in his 20s. When I was a teen, my across-the-cul-de-sac neighbor was an International dealer, and his son was a big-time Scout fan. He's a few years younger than I am, and I'm not in my 60s (my previous Lincoln ownership notwithstanding), so there are at least two non-geriatric Scout fans out there...  

That was my point....but if it was being sold at an International dealer, less of a connection to VW.  Probably 90% of the public has no clue that Navistar was sold...(I  bought a good chunk of Navistar at I think 7 bucks..hated to see a US flag go but.....?.  And again no argument that Scout name is  not forgotten..that was my point with T'grrl.  As I  understand her, she was saying it WAS forgotten...the Scout generation was old..And I  said.."yes. No different than the the Bronco issue.  And I would say the new Bronco is a  success.

 

The Scout is  not forgotten...Try to buy one!  Just like the Dodge Power Wagon and a 50's Jeep ..utility or pick up.  And it is  not 70 year olds that are buying them.   An Icon is an Icon!

 

By the way, a guy with a lot of current industry knowledge is  telling me International dealers are bullshit over the possibility of them NOT getting the Scout.

[GearheadGrrrl]

The Bronco name survived for a couple decades after the original died, which kept it in the public consciousness. Then Ford did a masterful job with product placement and early announcements if not outright leaks to build the legend and demand. The Scout pretty much just died when International discontinued it four decades ago, though a core of fans tried to keep their Scouts alive. 

 

That suggests that VW will have a lot of PR work to do to successfully revive the Scout. Reviving a brand makes sense when it's only been gone for a decade or two like the Ranger or Beetle, but it's a long, hard, and expensive PR slog with near half century old brands.

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

The Bronco name survived for a couple decades after the original died, which kept it in the public consciousness. Then Ford did a masterful job with product placement and early announcements if not outright leaks to build the legend and demand. The Scout pretty much just died when International discontinued it four decades ago, though a core of fans tried to keep their Scouts alive. 

 

That suggests that VW will have a lot of PR work to do to successfully revive the Scout. Reviving a brand makes sense when it's only been gone for a decade or two like the Ranger or Beetle, but it's a long, hard, and expensive PR slog with near half century old brands.

So not the slam dunk brand that VW believes…..

This is more about VW getting the shits with Ford denying access to US market with T6 Amarok, VW saw an easy way to get Scout name, it may work for them but could end up less than wonderful………

[GearheadGrrrl]

IIRC not getting a Ranger clone for the U.S.market was in the deal from the start, maybe VW Group didn't read it?

[SoonerLS]

11 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

That was my point....but if it was being sold at an International dealer, less of a connection to VW.  Probably 90% of the public has no clue that Navistar was sold...(I  bought a good chunk of Navistar at I think 7 bucks..hated to see a US flag go but.....?.  And again no argument that Scout name is  not forgotten..that was my point with T'grrl.

Sorry; I didn't get that being your point at all, so my mistake there. I agree that I'd rather see it come back as an International, but are you suggesting that they should sell it in both International and VW dealerships? I don't see how it could work if they were only sold alongside semis, but selling them to enthusiasts at International dealers and mass-market at VW could work.

 

As for the other thing, that wasn't aimed at you, and should've been in a separate post.

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

IIRC not getting a Ranger clone for the U.S.market was in the deal from the start, maybe VW Group didn't read it?

Yes but VW openly protested about in the media that Ford wouldn’t allow T6 Amorok  to be sold in North America, I think it was the head of VW North America 

Edited June 4, 2022 by jpd80

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

IIRC not getting a Ranger clone for the U.S.market was in the deal from the start, maybe VW Group didn't read it?

Unless the contract said no products at all in the segment, I’d imagine it wouldn’t disallow a product fully developed by VW/unrelated to the Ranger/Amarok combo.

[silvrsvt]

Maybe what is going on with the Scout and Ford cutting back on the MEB for NA was part of the reason why Farley said joint ventures don't work out that well long term...

[Bob Rosadini]

10 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

Sorry; I didn't get that being your point at all, so my mistake there. I agree that I'd rather see it come back as an International, but are you suggesting that they should sell it in both International and VW dealerships? I don't see how it could work if they were only sold alongside semis, but selling them to enthusiasts at International dealers and mass-market at VW could work.

 

As for the other thing, that wasn't aimed at you, and should've been in a separate post.

Got it! ? In my mind it should be a niche product..I would let the International dealers have it and  even perhaps use the platform to build a pick  up given "platform sharing" seems to be the popular buzz word.  As for selling alongside semi's, keep in mind International (showing my age, I like to ignore "Navistar") has always been a strong player in class 6 and 7 so there is some connection there as that customer base is a lot different than the Swifts, Schnieders,  and J.B. Hunts of the world IMO.

[7Mary3]

BTW, with all the talk about what will be happening at OHAP, is there any rumors about the future of the 650/750 and E series?

[fuzzymoomoo]

3 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

BTW, with all the talk about what will be happening at OHAP, is there any rumors about the future of the 650/750 and E series?

My guess is E-series is as good as gone. I don't under any circumstances see them investing a dime into electrification for it when E-Transit already exists (despite its own flaws). As for 600/650/750 that's much murkier. I can see both arguments. Comes down to if they feel they get acceptable ROI I guess. 

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

My guess is E-series is as good as gone. I don't under any circumstances see them investing a dime into electrification for it when E-Transit already exists (despite its own flaws). As for 600/650/750 that's much murkier. I can see both arguments. Comes down to if they feel they get acceptable ROI I guess. 

Edit, apparently my guess was completely wrong as I just saw Borg’s post on GMI,

 

What they don't tell you is that the vehicle is a chassis cab version of the next-gen TE1 Lightning ?. TE1 Lightning is also getting a SuperDuty version btw.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by jpd80