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The Ford Order Tracking System Is No Longer Available.  THANKS Cyberdman For Making Available All Of These Past Years.  More Here.

Joe771476

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2 hours ago, iamweasel said:

 

$500M seems like a reasonable # to me.  (Definitely not $500K.)  There may have been a few other things in there such as some relocation costs since if they continued Sterling it would have moved to the NC and/or Mexico plants.  The plan was always to get it out of Canada.  (CAW is/was a massive PITA - even worse than UAW.)

 

In the auto industry, back when I was in Product Development, even the smallest minor freshenings cost $250M and many were near $400M.  That's just to redesign a bumper/grille/lights, some interior bits, etc.  Throw in any powertrain change and you'd get to $500-600M.  An all new program was near $1B.  That was 15 years ago, too, so I'm sure those price tags are higher now, too.  

 

As far as buying a cab and not knowing it could handle the new tech, I don't think the due diligence was done on that cab because they never planned on keeping that cab long-term, anyway.  The folks who were in charge when Sterling was purchased were okay spending that money on it, and 5-10 years later the next management team changed their minds.  They decided to put that money into other things (122SD/114SD, Western Star, etc.)

 

Plus, looking back now you could also say they spent the money to buy a competitor and shut it down.  That is not all bad.  It wiped out A LOT of competitive Ford Truck and Sterling truck dealers and that market share just went to other places, mainly FTL/WST, anyway.  So that is still a better result than say if Sterling sold to CAT and all those CAT distributors are now full-line truck dealers.  

'weasel

First I apologize for addressing my post to Ifeg- I confuse you guys  as I believe you are both ex-Ford guys-plus at my age I shouldn't be posting at 11PM😎

In any case, I agree with your last paragraph which I alluded to referencing the 300 mil Daimler paid.  They in essence bought market share and managed to avoid being sued by the dealers-inspite of their failed effort to "sell" the Ford dealers a separate Actera franchise.

 

As for for Cat, talk  about a marriage made in hell?  Cat bails out of highway truck engines, then hooks up with Navistar who is getting their butt sued over their EGR fiasco.  That "marriage"lasted two years???  There are a couple of Cat triaxles running around this area- I think the owners bought them for about the price of a 550 Power Stroke.  Talk about a "fire sale"!

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Brings up a question:  Was Ford actively 'marketing' their heavy truck division or was Freightliner's offer unsolicited?  

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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Brings up a question:  Was Ford actively 'marketing' their heavy truck division or was Freightliner's offer unsolicited?  

 

Since Jac the Knife was complaining about the "measly" 4% profit return from Ford Heavy Truck, my assumption would land on Jac just letting it known that offers would be considered.

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However the sale went down, it was a damn short sighted mistake!

 

In the 90s most heavy truck makers relied on vendors like Eaton, Cummins, Cat, etc. for powertrains and those vendors got most of the profit on a new truck as fleet buyers could play the half dozen plus truck makers around then against each other to get the lowest price. Throw in the fact that Ford's own mid range 6 cylinder diesel was going to need a lot of work to pass the upcoming EPA regs and a good case could be made for cutting back on heavy trucks before the investment was made in what became the Sterling conventional. Once the investment was made there was no financial benefit in giving the new truck line away to Daimler. Today the big truck making business is much more profitable with only four competitors left and proprietary engines most common, and Ford would be sharing in that profitable market and the prestige of being a full line manufacturer if they hadn't given their heavy truck business away.

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9 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Brings up a question:  Was Ford actively 'marketing' their heavy truck division or was Freightliner's offer unsolicited?  

I do believe Hebe, then head of F'liner  approached Ford.  Jac jumped at it.  I'll see if I can find article where I read that.  How about it "'weasel". Ifeg"...?

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7 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Since Jac the Knife was complaining about the "measly" 4% profit return from Ford Heavy Truck, my assumption would land on Jac just letting it known that offers would be considered.

That could be too...in particular if Bill Ford had a "soft spot " for heavy trucks...I can hear

Jac saying.."what a surprise"!

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18 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

However the sale went down, it was a damn short sighted mistake!

 

 

 

 

Sorry to say not at all.  Getting out of heavy truck and committing KTP to the then-new Super Duty allowed Ford to stay competitive with GM and FCA in the far more profitable light truck market.  Ford should have left heavy truck sometime in the late 80's before starting on the HN80 program.

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18 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

 

Sorry to say not at all.  Getting out of heavy truck and committing KTP to the then-new Super Duty allowed Ford to stay competitive with GM and FCA in the far more profitable light truck market.  Ford should have left heavy truck sometime in the late 80's before starting on the HN80 program.

 

I'm not sure getting out of heavy truck was essential to Ford's continued success in light trucks.   No doubt you could say it was a quick solution to adding production capacity but I would have to believe there were plenty of other underutilized plant options that were available.  I could see this happening say five years prior before HN-80 was approved....but like a year or so after the new truck is introduced???

 

Sounds like the "anti big truck" faction all of a sudden had a powerful new force in their camp in the form of Jac the Knife. If a mistake was made, I think Ford should have just focused on vocational business.  And I would include class 8 fleet tractors in  that "vocational" segment.  Forget about chasing the owner operator market.  Ford did very well in class 6 and 7. 

 

What was the difference say between a class 7 LN-8000 and a class 8 LN -9000?....typically a big bore engine versus a Cummins 8.3 (the Brazilians were long gone-by  then)-and 12/21 axle combo vs. a 12/23--otherwise could have been same frame, same cab, different radiator....  but it was all fit in the same wrapper!

 

But I'm a die hard "civilian" and defer to the Ford annuitants on this site who were there. Oh and by the way, the "junk yard" that is in my neighboring town that Jac paid big money for so he .."could analyze part failures"..he was quoted as saying that..is back in the hands of the family that sold it to Ford.

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BTW- the order bank for the 2024 F-650 and F-750 was supposed to open 11/14.  Any news about 2024 changes?

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2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

BTW- the order bank for the 2024 F-650 and F-750 was supposed to open 11/14.  Any news about 2024 changes?

'24?

How about it Ice-Capades?  

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Yes, 2024.  Production starts 01/30/2023 according to Donlen.  GM is going to release their 2024 medium duty trucks early as well.  Some new versions of the Isuzu based LCF's and updated Silverado mediums.

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On 11/28/2022 at 9:51 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

I do believe Hebe, then head of F'liner  approached Ford.  Jac jumped at it.  I'll see if I can find article where I read that.  How about it "'weasel". Ifeg"...?

Hello Bob, I spent many years on the supplier side at many Ford facilities, not direct.

 

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49 minutes ago, lfeg said:

Hello Bob, I spent many years on the supplier side at many Ford facilities, not direct.

 

Thx

In any case you are always a good contributor.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrhSIDu4_Zw

 

Tesla Semi Truck  presentation, man, the way that thing went up the hill with 82,000 lbs and passed the diesel truck, this is the future….

 

Basically uses Tesla S motor drives in a tri-motor set up that can vary the power used on flat and hills /launch.


 

 

 

Edited by jpd80

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