New Light & Medium Duty News

[akirby]

5 hours ago, SoonerLS said:

There’s more than just light bulbs in those taillight assemblies these days. They also have sensors (e.g, BLIS), and some have indicators to tell you what your payload/tongue weight is. 
 

I’m guessing that those figures are all-in costs, though, which probably includes bodywork and harness replacement costs—it’s not like your local tweeker is going to take the time to unplug a connector when he can just cut the harness. 

 Not surprising when one 3” LED pool light is over $700 installed.

[Flying68]

Just looked up the MSRP on a 2025 F-350 LED tail lamp assembly is $1980.37.  That is for 1 tail lamp.  That would around $4200 with tax for a pair, without labor for install and any repairs, no wonder insurance is so high these days.

[Rick73]

1 hour ago, Flying68 said:

Just looked up the MSRP on a 2025 F-350 LED tail lamp assembly is $1980.37.  That is for 1 tail lamp.  That would around $4200 with tax for a pair, without labor for install and any repairs, no wonder insurance is so high these days.

And from how many sources can you buy that assembly?

 

It’s either engineering grossly run amok where it actually takes a ton of money to make one of these assemblies, or else they are being marked up excessively because they can.  Either way it highlights a serious problem with pursuing technology with little regard to long-term overall costs of ownership.

[Sherminator98]

31 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

And from how many sources can you buy that assembly?

 

It’s either engineering grossly run amok where it actually takes a ton of money to make one of these assemblies, or else they are being marked up excessively because they can.  Either way it highlights a serious problem with pursuing technology with little regard to long-term overall costs of ownership.

 

Its like battery cells for EVs-limited production where the end manufacture is only building say 150K units of Super Duty tail lights with very little extras for repairs. 

[Chrisgb]

31 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

And from how many sources can you buy that assembly?

 

It’s either engineering grossly run amok where it actually takes a ton of money to make one of these assemblies, or else they are being marked up excessively because they can.  Either way it highlights a serious problem with pursuing technology with little regard to long-term overall costs of ownership.

inflation is also a factor. My mother was mildly rear ended back in 1960 while driving our 1958 Chevrolet Biscayne. I remember my dad's alarm at the $112 cost of the twin-lamp taillight assembly. In today's dollars that would be $1,186.93 for a white metal housing with a chrome bezel. Add in today's radar and the fact that most all lighting is LED and exclusive to a given model and we get $2k light assemblies.

[Rick73]

IMO owners won’t care why it happens, just that they got screwed.  It doesn’t matter if it’s a taillight, discontinued battery, or engine failure just beyond warranty; it’s how companies alienate customers.  IMO root cause is prioritizing short-term profits over long-term reputation.  Many people think that only involves quality issues, but I believe it involves many different types of decisions.

[Sherminator98]

8 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

IMO owners won’t care why it happens, just that they got screwed.  It doesn’t matter if it’s a taillight, discontinued battery, or engine failure just beyond warranty; it’s how companies alienate customers.  IMO root cause is prioritizing short-term profits over long-term reputation.  Many people think that only involves quality issues, but I believe it involves many different types of decisions.

 

Why does a company have to plan on supporting a vehicle longer then 10 years? That is the law. It make no sense financially for a company to do so.  

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

IMO owners won’t care why it happens, just that they got screwed.  It doesn’t matter if it’s a taillight, discontinued battery, or engine failure just beyond warranty; it’s how companies alienate customers.  IMO root cause is prioritizing short-term profits over long-term reputation.  Many people think that only involves quality issues, but I believe it involves many different types of decisions.

These light assemblies are very complicated and they are bespoke for one specific vehicle.  They’re expensive everywhere not just Ford and it’s not necessarily price gouging.

[Flying68]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

These light assemblies are very complicated and they are bespoke for one specific vehicle.  They’re expensive everywhere not just Ford and it’s not necessarily price gouging.

 

At the root is the design and engineering where it becomes cheaper overall from a manufacturing standpoint to combine multiple functions into a single line replaceable unit.  The downside then becomes if one subcomponent of that assembly breaks, you have to replace the whole assembly, which is on the end user.  The quality of the parts is pretty good, so warranty costs are virtually nil.  So if you get in an accident, instead of having to just replace a blow molded housing, you now have to replace an entire integrated assembly with no replaceable parts.  Still, the general cost of LED's and the radar systems isn't that much and likely the costs are part of the contract agreement with the supplier that prices replacements higher than those intended for the production line.

[SoonerLS]

9 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Why does a company have to plan on supporting a vehicle longer then 10 years? That is the law. It make no sense financially for a company to do so.  

If you mean the “law” that they have to provide parts for ten years, that’s an urban legend, not a law. 
 

 

Edited February 11 by SoonerLS

[Joe771476]

On 2/10/2025 at 10:38 AM, Sherminator98 said:

 

Why does a company have to plan on supporting a vehicle longer then 10 years? That is the law. It make no sense financially for a company to do so.  

Trouble is people are keeping their vehicles for 15 years or longer!  Junkyards will be making a fortune!

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

Trouble is people are keeping their vehicles for 15 years or longer!  Junkyards will be making a fortune!

 

No they won't because they won't have any stock in them because people will still be driving them. Even at a 10% loss rate from accidents/etc, you'll still have a large gap in supply. 

[7Mary3]

https://www.truckinginfo.com/10235847/isuzu-announces-south-carolina-truck-assembly-plant

[Bob Rosadini]

14 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

https://www.truckinginfo.com/10235847/isuzu-announces-south-carolina-truck-assembly-plant

Just what Ford, GM and Ram need!

[7Mary3]

5 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Just what Ford, GM and Ram need!

 

That plant will likely be building the Chevy-branded LCF trucks too.  Ought to make Chevy commercial truck dealers happy.

[iamweasel]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

That plant will likely be building the Chevy-branded LCF trucks too.  Ought to make Chevy commercial truck dealers happy.

 

Interesting time to build a new plant.  Isuzu has open capacity right now and tons of excess stock sitting at the ports waiting for dealer orders so the last thing Isuzu needs right now is even more production.  All that does is depress margins for both the dealers and Isuzu.   

 

The Isuzu dealer network is already annoyed they have to compete with Chevy dealers again who have that auto-business mentality and generally give away these trucks for very little profit.  In the truck business, as a dealer you generally don't have another like-franchise in your same town to compete with but with Chevy and Isuzu you do - and that destroys margins for the dealers.

 

During COVID, etc, when demand skyrocketed there was more demand than supply, but that's generally been the only time in the past 20 years where that has happened with Isuzu.  They better hope their growth plans become reality otherwise they'll be drowning in excess capacity in the future.  

[GearheadGrrrl]

To be honest, if I were looking for a class 4, 5, or 6 medium duty work truck I'd probably buy an Isuzu- Compared to the Ford, GM, and Stellantis it's a real truck with a tilt cab, etc.. Isuzu's problem is lack of dealers, perhaps GM will push more dealers to carry rebadged Isuzus?

[7Mary3]

On 2/15/2025 at 10:17 AM, iamweasel said:

 

Interesting time to build a new plant.  Isuzu has open capacity right now and tons of excess stock sitting at the ports waiting for dealer orders so the last thing Isuzu needs right now is even more production.  All that does is depress margins for both the dealers and Isuzu.   

 

The Isuzu dealer network is already annoyed they have to compete with Chevy dealers again who have that auto-business mentality and generally give away these trucks for very little profit.  In the truck business, as a dealer you generally don't have another like-franchise in your same town to compete with but with Chevy and Isuzu you do - and that destroys margins for the dealers.

 

During COVID, etc, when demand skyrocketed there was more demand than supply, but that's generally been the only time in the past 20 years where that has happened with Isuzu.  They better hope their growth plans become reality otherwise they'll be drowning in excess capacity in the future.  

 

Isuzu has been eyeing having their own plant in the U.S. for a long time.  Currently the Isuzu (and Chevy LCF) trucks not imported from Japan sold in the U.S. are assembled by the Shyft Group in Charlotte MI..  I suspect Isuzu may not renew their contract with the Shyft Group when it expires.  Isuzu is also on the verge of introducing an EV N series, and I hear that will require a new plant.  Whether or not it sells remains to be seen, however.

 

Having Chevy distribute Isuzu trucks again is kind of a double-edged sword.  It makes Isuzu happy as there are many areas in the country that are not well served by Isuzu dealers but there are plenty of Chevy dealers.  Naturally Isuzu dealers in metropolitan areas would rather not have the competition.  In my area (L.A.) a quick check didn't show much descrepancy in price between an NRR at an Isuzu dealer or a LCF5500 at a Chevy Commercial dealer, both around $62,000 for a gas job.  Seems consistant with the rest of the country, but I don't doubt what you say.

 

No telling what Isuzu's plans are for the U.S..  UD, and Fuso are long gone, and Hino isn't selling many LCF's anymore which pretty much gives Isuzu the whole market.  I have always felt that Isuzu could incrementally increase their sales with a few more configurations, such as a tandem (talked about at one time), gasoline engine for the F Series (possible now with the Cummins Octane?)  or a 4X4 N Series (popular in Australia).  Pure speculation but maybe Isuzu would like to build a class 6/7 conventional. 

 

 

          

[iamweasel]

1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said:

 

Isuzu has been eyeing having their own plant in the U.S. for a long time.  Currently the Isuzu (and Chevy LCF) trucks not imported from Japan sold in the U.S. are assembled by the Shyft Group in Charlotte MI..  I suspect Isuzu may not renew their contract with the Shyft Group when it expires.  Isuzu is also on the verge of introducing an EV N series, and I hear that will require a new plant.  Whether or not it sells remains to be seen, however.

 

Having Chevy distribute Isuzu trucks again is kind of a double-edged sword.  It makes Isuzu happy as there are many areas in the country that are not well served by Isuzu dealers but there are plenty of Chevy dealers.  Naturally Isuzu dealers in metropolitan areas would rather not have the competition.  In my area (L.A.) a quick check didn't show much descrepancy in price between an NRR at an Isuzu dealer or a LCF5500 at a Chevy Commercial dealer, both around $62,000 for a gas job.  Seems consistant with the rest of the country, but I don't doubt what you say.

 

No telling what Isuzu's plans are for the U.S..  UD, and Fuso are long gone, and Hino isn't selling many LCF's anymore which pretty much gives Isuzu the whole market.  I have always felt that Isuzu could incrementally increase their sales with a few more configurations, such as a tandem (talked about at one time), gasoline engine for the F Series (possible now with the Cummins Octane?)  or a 4X4 N Series (popular in Australia).  Pure speculation but maybe Isuzu would like to build a class 6/7 conventional. 

 

 

          

 

They haven't said anything to us about abandoning Charlotte yet, but that would make some sense so we'll see.    The've never mentioned any issues to us about needing a place to build their electric trucks so I don't know about that, either.  

 

On the $62K NRR, if there was no Chevy dealer in town it's likely that price on the Isuzu would have gone up some.  Isuzu buyers want cabovers and if there is no other cabover to cross shop that helps protect margins.   Also that is an asking price, not a real transaction price, so you can't read too much into prices you see online.  

 

Isuzu has zero plans for tandems or conventionals.  Every dealer meeting someone asks about it and Isuzu cuts them off hard and says no way.  Doing tandems is a totally different animal (same reason Ford doesn't do them) and selling conventionals completely goes against the Isuzu "cabovers are better" mantra.  

 

Our pie in the sky dream is that when the B6.7 octane is out Isuzu put that into the trucks instead of the GM engine and then tells Chevy to take a hike again.   The only reason they are in bed with Chevy in the first place is to get the gas engine.  Isuzu uses Cummins B6.7 diesels now so should be easy to integrate the B6.7 octane from a purchasing perspective.  Now whether or not that engine actually fits in a non-FTR Isuzu is another matter and I don't know the answer to that right now.

 

 

 

 

[7Mary3]

I agree, but I doubt the Octane would fit in the N series without hanging out 3 feet past the back of the cab.  Liable to be expensive and who knows how bad the fuel economy would be.  The GM V-8/Hydramatic is really the perfect match for these trucks, low intial cost, reliable, decent fuel economy and performance.  Plus anyone can fix them.

 

The Octane in the F series should be a no-brainer.  I suggested to an Isuzu guy a few years ago when the F series went on sale they should offer the PSI 8.8L CNG and gasoline engines in it.  I am sure making a buisness case for that would have been tough, but the fleet I work for would have gone for it.

 

  

[Bob Rosadini]

On 2/15/2025 at 11:57 AM, 7Mary3 said:

 

That plant will likely be building the Chevy-branded LCF trucks too.  Ought to make Chevy commercial truck dealers happy.

Where were they assembled now?

[7Mary3]

Builtmore division of Shyft Group, Charlotte, MI..  

 

[Rick73]

13 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I agree, but I doubt the Octane would fit in the N series without hanging out 3 feet past the back of the cab.  Liable to be expensive and who knows how bad the fuel economy would be.  The GM V-8/Hydramatic is really the perfect match for these trucks, low intial cost, reliable, decent fuel economy and performance.  Plus anyone can fix them.

Is added weight of a Cummins Octane much of an issue for trucks in this weight class?  Just curious.  I haven’t seen engine weight specs, but expect it could be hundreds of pounds heavier than GM V8.  Transmission may be heavier too since it must handle greater peak torque.  Not sure if weight matters all that much if trucks are rarely loaded to capacity?

[7Mary3]

More weight = less payload, simple as that.

[Bob Rosadini]

23 hours ago, Rick73 said:

Is added weight of a Cummins Octane much of an issue for trucks in this weight class?  Just curious.  I haven’t seen engine weight specs, but expect it could be hundreds of pounds heavier than GM V8.  Transmission may be heavier too since it must handle greater peak torque.  Not sure if weight matters all that much if trucks are rarely loaded to capacity?

I would agree with your point that most of the class 4-5 market is not "payload

sensitive".  For one thing, I don't think law enforcement-at least around here -pays attention to the local delivery or service industry.  When  does it matter? if you are grossly overloaded and you are involved in an accident..then you are under the microscope.  And in any case, a lot of these operators will take their chances.

 

The exception? IMO the typical "bulk hauler"- typically dump trucks.  And again here in Mass. it is not the locals but the State PD truck unit that will at times set up scales on exit routes from an asphalt plant, quarry, gravel operation etc.

And there are a lot of contractor dumps that operate around here that have 25,999 plates.  But their specs are class 7.  So save the FET and "load it up"!

My bet is most of the F-750's in dealer stock are derated to 26,000, same as a 650 but they have big rubber, springs etc.