7Mary3 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 hours ago, twintornados said: Since the answer was always "it is a heat issue" as to why gas does not get air brakes - wasn't the vent on the side of the F900 hood a way to address that? I am curious as I do not know for sure... Close up.. That round intake was fresh air for the air cleaner. There is a rubber boot on the inside of the hood that seals to the air cleaner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Air filter behind that. 1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said: That round intake was fresh air for the air cleaner. There is a rubber boot on the inside of the hood that seals to the air cleaner. I did not know - always thought it was a type of under-hood air exhaust ventilation system....did not realize it was an intake vent - but it does bring up an interesting point...could something like this be used to ventilate under the hood to address the heat issue? Again, it sounds too simplistic but I wonder if that would be the fix if as others had said, the juice being worth the squeeze for air-brakes on a gasser. Wonder what the take rate is for air-brakes on the diesel models. And speaking of that, if air-brakes are available on the diesel versions, it would not seem like much of a leap to get air-brakes on a gasser. Again...just spit-balling here. Edited January 12 by twintornados 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 The 2008-2010 Super Duty pickups had vents to extract heat from under the hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 5 hours ago, twintornados said: I did not know - always thought it was a type of under-hood air exhaust ventilation system....did not realize it was an intake vent - but it does bring up an interesting point...could something like this be used to ventilate under the hood to address the heat issue? Again, it sounds too simplistic but I wonder if that would be the fix if as others had said, the juice being worth the squeeze for air-brakes on a gasser. Wonder what the take rate is for air-brakes on the diesel models. And speaking of that, if air-brakes are available on the diesel versions, it would not seem like much of a leap to get air-brakes on a gasser. Again...just spit-balling here. Broken record again😎...think of a monster 6.7 Power Stroke under the hood of a 650/750....and to swallow the story we are being fed, they can't solve the under heat issue when a Godzilla takes the place of a 6.7. Educate me please...Higher compression issues in the 6.7 ..Better yet, 6.7 in a 350/450/550/600. in an under hood space that has to be significantly less than the space in a 650/750 tilt hood. Meantime, over on the 7.0 thread........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Took a good look at the 2027 650/750 order guide. Basically no changes at all, diesels still not available in California and no air brakes for the gasoline models. I am thinking that whatever the issue is with offering air brakes with the 7.3L the cost of fixing it is just not justified by the expected sales. That's maybe not too much of a surprise seeing how the Cummins Octane gasoline medium duty engine is starting to look like a sales dud. I was thinking there would be considerable interest in it, but it looks as though Kenworth and Peterbilt will be the only ones offering it in a truck. International's IC school bus division will also offer it, but that seems to be it. Freightliner was supposed to have it by now, and rumors were Isuzu and International would have it in their trucks soon as well. Another surprising thing I have noticed is that here in California I am not seeing more new 7.3L Ford 650/750's. Diesel emissions regulations are still up in the air with the conflicting EPA and CARB standards, so one would think there would be some kind of market for gasoline medium duty trucks at least until the regulations get resolved. I passed by a large Ford Pro dealer Friday and he didn't have a single 650 or 750 on his lot. Loads of Transits and 250/350's, along with a fair number of 450/550's, but nothing larger. The only gas engine medium duty trucks I see are the Isuzu/Chevy LCF's. Also noticed Ford dropped the special CNG/LPG instrument cluster option for the 650/750, but did keep the gaseous fuel prep package option. Makes no sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, 7Mary3 said: Took a good look at the 2027 650/750 order guide. Basically no changes at all..... What?!?! But, they deleted the passenger side engine size emblem from the door....now, you have to walk around to the driver side to figure it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 44 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: Took a good look at the 2027 650/750 order guide. Basically no changes at all, diesels still not available in California and no air brakes for the gasoline models. I am thinking that whatever the issue is with offering air brakes with the 7.3L the cost of fixing it is just not justified by the expected sales. That's maybe not too much of a surprise seeing how the Cummins Octane gasoline medium duty engine is starting to look like a sales dud. I was thinking there would be considerable interest in it, but it looks as though Kenworth and Peterbilt will be the only ones offering it in a truck. International's IC school bus division will also offer it, but that seems to be it. Freightliner was supposed to have it by now, and rumors were Isuzu and International would have it in their trucks soon as well. Another surprising thing I have noticed is that here in California I am not seeing more new 7.3L Ford 650/750's. Diesel emissions regulations are still up in the air with the conflicting EPA and CARB standards, so one would think there would be some kind of market for gasoline medium duty trucks at least until the regulations get resolved. I passed by a large Ford Pro dealer Friday and he didn't have a single 650 or 750 on his lot. Loads of Transits and 250/350's, along with a fair number of 450/550's, but nothing larger. The only gas engine medium duty trucks I see are the Isuzu/Chevy LCF's. Also noticed Ford dropped the special CNG/LPG instrument cluster option for the 650/750, but did keep the gaseous fuel prep package option. Makes no sense... Makes no sense?? 7M that just shows how clueless they are-or they either truly intend to exit 6 and 7 when the next UAW contract comes due (when is that?) or they may have a totally new product that shares components with E-series and full range of class 4 to 7. and they are not willing to spend any funds on keeping the steel cab going in short term. As for failure for Ca dealers to stock 7.3 650/750 I can't believe the pricing on the 7.3 version of those conventionals is not a huge attraction. The lack of air brakes I'm sure is a factor but here in New England but there are plenty of 650/750 gas trucks on road and in dealer lots and a hire percentage of them are set up with dump bodies- and with light plugs and pintle hooks As for the Cummins Octane, is the cost savings vs diesel insignificant?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, twintornados said: What?!?! But, they deleted the passenger side engine size emblem from the door....now, you have to walk around to the driver side to figure it out. Like I said -clueless...And speaking of badging, look at the badges on Ram and GM pick ups.. they say..."Look at me"! Ford, my 22 F-150 STX had some chrome and a touch of red paint on the fender vent-not bad. My 23? Black plastic! My youngest son has a loaded V-6 Bronco...Badge? a "Paper/plastic patch. My oldest son, a 24or25? Tremor 150 with all kinds of badging-and I don't think it was that much more than the loaded Bronco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Speaking of air brakes and 7.3L gasoline engines, I saw a 7.3L propane powered Bluebird Vision schoolbus yesterday and it sure sounded like it had air brakes. Bluebird says air brakes, both disc and drum, are options on gasoline and propane 7.3L Visions. https://blue-bird.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Gasoline_Vision_Spec_Sheet_2021-0121.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Speaking of air brakes and 7.3L gasoline engines, I saw a 7.3L propane powered Bluebird Vision schoolbus yesterday and it sure sounded like it had air brakes. Bluebird says air brakes, both disc and drum, are options on gasoline and propane 7.3L Visions. https://blue-bird.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Gasoline_Vision_Spec_Sheet_2021-0121.pdf Blue Bird builds their own chassis for Vision but specs a Ford 7.3L Godzilla / 6R140 transmission for their gas versions. Cummins is their choice for diesel versions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 2 hours ago, twintornados said: Blue Bird builds their own chassis for Vision but specs a Ford 7.3L Godzilla / 6R140 transmission for their gas versions. Cummins is their choice for diesel versions. They still use the 6R and not the 10R? I thought the 6R was gone, but maybe it's still available as a crate tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 5 minutes ago, fordmantpw said: They still use the 6R and not the 10R? I thought the 6R was gone, but maybe it's still available as a crate tranny. 7.3L / 6R140 is drivetrain in F650/750 - I would presume that it is a stout combination for the GVW given and no need for the extra gearing of the 10R...I am sure that also applies to the Blue Bird Vision. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, twintornados said: 7.3L / 6R140 is drivetrain in F650/750 - I would presume that it is a stout combination for the GVW given and no need for the extra gearing of the 10R...I am sure that also applies to the Blue Bird Vision. Ahhh, interesting. I thought the MDs had switched over to the 10R as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 The 650 and 750 6.7L Powerstroke trucks use the 10R, but the 7.3L gasoline versions use the 6R. I think the F53 stripped chassis may also use the 6R with gas engines. I really wish the 6R140 was available with the 7.3L or 6.8L gasoline engines in the 250 and 350. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 38 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: The 650 and 750 6.7L Powerstroke trucks use the 10R, but the 7.3L gasoline versions use the 6R. I think the F53 stripped chassis may also use the 6R with gas engines. I really wish the 6R140 was available with the 7.3L or 6.8L gasoline engines in the 250 and 350. Looks like F-53 stripped chassis was discontinued after 2024....only one on Ford Pro is F-59 stripped....the F-59, however, uses the 7.3L/6R combo according to the Ford Pro site. Update: According to Google, Ford still makes the F-53...but it is not on the Ford Pro site. Edited February 7 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted Sunday at 04:20 AM Share Posted Sunday at 04:20 AM 20 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Speaking of air brakes and 7.3L gasoline engines, I saw a 7.3L propane powered Bluebird Vision schoolbus yesterday and it sure sounded like it had air brakes. Bluebird says air brakes, both disc and drum, are options on gasoline and propane 7.3L Visions. https://blue-bird.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Gasoline_Vision_Spec_Sheet_2021-0121.pdf Well so much for Ford's BS about under hood heat preventing them from installing air brakes on 650/750 when equipped with a 7.3. Blue Bird has done a good job giving a driver good forward visibility with that steeply slanted hood. Amazing they figured out how to control heat associated with a compressor and Ford can't figure it out with a hood that has to provide considerably more frontal area and I would assume a large under hood cavity than the Blue Bird. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted Monday at 02:17 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 02:17 PM (edited) International has their own school bus brand (IC?), Freightliner owns Thomas Bus. I'd like to see a similar alliance between Ford and Blue Bird. The first Blue Bird bus was on a Ford chassis. Blue Bird is already using the Ford gas and propane propulsion systems. Why not switch the diesel from Cummins to Ford? On a side note, I hope the 6R transmission fiasco doesn't affect the Blue Bird buses! Edited Monday at 02:26 PM by Joe771476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted Monday at 03:25 PM Share Posted Monday at 03:25 PM On 2/7/2026 at 10:20 PM, Bob Rosadini said: Well so much for Ford's BS about under hood heat preventing them from installing air brakes on 650/750 when equipped with a 7.3. Blue Bird has done a good job giving a driver good forward visibility with that steeply slanted hood. Amazing they figured out how to control heat associated with a compressor and Ford can't figure it out with a hood that has to provide considerably more frontal area and I would assume a large under hood cavity than the Blue Bird. Maybe the compressor isn't under the hood on the Blue Bird ? Remember, Ford has to build the chassis with the compressor under the hood for ALL upfitters. BlueBird can customize theirs as they know it's going to be a school bus and they know where that have room with the frame to put stuff like compressors and air tanks. So, it's really a different ballgame. Or, maybe they know their heat load and feel it's safe with the compressor under the hood. Ford has a MUCH wider array of products to build for than Blue Bird's special use case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted Monday at 04:29 PM Share Posted Monday at 04:29 PM (edited) School bus has low payload requirements and travels in fixed, often low speed, and short routes twice a day. The cooling requirement is vastly different than cargo, ambulance, regular bus/shuttle, delivery van, or motorhome application. It's a really niche market which is why there is only a handful of specialized suppliers. Edited Monday at 04:32 PM by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted Tuesday at 05:51 AM Share Posted Tuesday at 05:51 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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