7Mary3 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 In that case it does make sense, the Octane will be a lower-cost alternative to the next generation medium duty diesels, like the Cummins B7.2L. That might be a good thing for Ford, they ought to be able to substantially undercut the Octane powered medium duty trucks with the 7.3L F-650/750. That is, if Ford continues to offer those trucks. Recently Ford announced that the 6.7L Powerstroke will be CARB certified for medium duty trucks and once again availble for sale in California, however that only applies to the F-550 and 600, not the 650 and 750. Ford seems to be very reluctant to spend any money at all on the 650 and 750 (air brakes on gas trucks...). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 2 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: In that case it does make sense, the Octane will be a lower-cost alternative to the next generation medium duty diesels, like the Cummins B7.2L. That might be a good thing for Ford, they ought to be able to substantially undercut the Octane powered medium duty trucks with the 7.3L F-650/750. That is, if Ford continues to offer those trucks. Since the Cummins Octane is a 6.7L, I would wonder if Ford could save a few more $$ and offer the 6.8L version of Godzilla and have a comparable result performance wise....just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, twintornados said: Since the Cummins Octane is a 6.7L, I would wonder if Ford could save a few more $$ and offer the 6.8L version of Godzilla and have a comparable result performance wise....just a thought. I doubt the 6.8L costs much less to manufacture than the 7.3L does. The only component in the 6.8L that might cost less would likely be the cast iron (vs. forged) crankshaft. Also remember the Cummins 6.7L Octane is turbocharged and produces substantially more torque (660 ft. lbs.) than the Ford 7.3L. I think a 7.3L gasoline powered Ford F-650 will have a very substantial cost advange over a comparable Octane powered Freightliner or Kenworth. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 Here's what you guys need! https://share.google/IWt6Z3AGEXk4iYGmU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 Scroll about half way down for F-series generations list. Ford F-Series Sales Figures | GCBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted April 28 Author Share Posted April 28 I didn't want to start a new thread for this, but is this true? You're kidding! https://share.google/4o189MRTwuDODFy7e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 https://www.theautopian.com/38-years-ago-ford-tried-to-make-trucking-23-percent-more-efficient-and-failed-so-hard-it-doesnt-make-semis-anymore/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 On 5/1/2026 at 4:47 PM, 7Mary3 said: https://www.theautopian.com/38-years-ago-ford-tried-to-make-trucking-23-percent-more-efficient-and-failed-so-hard-it-doesnt-make-semis-anymore/ Essentially a good read. But I used to read my customer's Automotive News every week or so, and Ford Class 6 thru 8 sales were always in the top 3, sometimes top 2. So when the new generation of L-series came out in 1996, Daimler/Freightliner panicked and they knew they had to get rid of that pesky Ford competition. So Freightliner offered Jac Nasser -- I think it was he -- $300 million (not $200 million). Ford never gave it a chance. By the way, here in New England I'm not seeing many Volvo or Macks. One thing that was true is that Ford was too complacent, having let the C-series and L-series go virtually unchanged for around 30 years. Another thing I'll say here is that when parents waited with their children at the school bus stops and saw Ford on the front of school buses, and Memorial Day crowds saw the Ford name on fire trucks, that translated to more civilian car and light truck sales. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 28 minutes ago, Joe771476 said: Essentially a good read. But I used to read my customer's Automotive News every week or so, and Ford Class 6 thru 8 sales were always in the top 3, sometimes top 2. So when the new generation of L-series came out in 1996, Daimler/Freightliner panicked and they knew they had to get rid of that pesky Ford competition. So Freightliner offered Jac Nasser -- I think it was he -- $300 million (not $200 million). Ford never gave it a chance. Jac the Knife dove on the deal not because Ford Heavy was losing money, quite the contrary, it was making a solid 4%, But Jacques said, he could make more $$ by putting the investment in Class 8 in a bank instead....that is the issue, sure, from a purely "making money" point, he was technically correct, but the fact that he lost those transactional sales into other Ford products as well is a loss that cannot be measured. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 You have to remeber that Ford wanted to re-purpose KTP to build the upcoming new Super Duty pickups. KTP was FAR more profitable building Super Duty pickups than they ever were building heavy trucks. That article mentions that the new AeroMax had 50% more plastic in it that competing class 8 trucks. I believe that! It's amazing how fast those trucks vanished from the landscape. Early Louisvilles seemed to hang on forever, but HN80's seemed to disappear overnight. Also it was interesting to read Ford was planning an aluminum cab for the HN80. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 2 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: You have to remeber that Ford wanted to re-purpose KTP to build the upcoming new Super Duty pickups. KTP was FAR more profitable building Super Duty pickups than they ever were building heavy trucks. And now, it is adding CE1....lets hope it is a successful continuation of Louisville Assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Mile Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) On 5/1/2026 at 1:47 PM, 7Mary3 said: https://www.theautopian.com/38-years-ago-ford-tried-to-make-trucking-23-percent-more-efficient-and-failed-so-hard-it-doesnt-make-semis-anymore/ Thanks for posting this article. Great to read. Has good information. Just my opinion, I thought the L-Series was a fair to good all around truck, as I drove/worked on some at work locations. Even now, seem to be some L-Series still in use. Edited May 2 by 40 Mile 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Author Mercedes does some excellent research for her articles, especially given that she was born about the time Ford abandoned heavy trucks. As for sales volume dropping, the numbers don't lie but Ford was still doing well in the vocational market in the 90s but the regulated common carrier fleets that bought thousands of day cab tractors were dropping like flies in the 80s and 90s and Ford was slow in bringing out sleeper cab conventional L series to sell to the deregulated fleets that replaced them. Mack had the same problem in the market as the R model didn't have the greatest sleeper options, but they solved it in the late 80s with the CH and CL conventional with integrated sleeper cab options. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 On 5/2/2026 at 5:52 PM, twintornados said: And now, it is adding CE1....lets hope it is a successful continuation of Louisville Assembly. KTP and Louisville are two separate plants 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 On 5/2/2026 at 7:35 PM, 40 Mile said: Thanks for posting this article. Great to read. Has good information. Just my opinion, I thought the L-Series was a fair to good all around truck, as I drove/worked on some at work locations. Even now, seem to be some L-Series still in use. They were a good bang for the buck to use an old phrase. I bought a good number of Louisvilles when I was in a staff job and when I went to a unit mgr operations job the company continued to buy them-in particular for my operation...until the weight issue and Freightliner agresiveness took over. As I think I have said previously, IMO they should have stuck with the original truck with minor changes as a vocational truck. Thinking that they could make a dent in the OO market was a bad assumption. The Paccar twins for sure own that and it will be interesting just how well Mack makes out with their latest attempt at capturing a good share of that OO market. And speaking of Mack, if there was a market they ruled here in the northeast, it was construction. Now unfortunately you are seeing many such fleets going to Paccar and Western Star. And Macks decision to no longer offer manual transmissions in their new trucks will probably accelerate that trend. With many new CDL drivers road testing on automatics thereby restricting their license rating that may prove to support that decision but for the near term it will hurt them IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 17 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: They were a good bang for the buck to use an old phrase. I bought a good number of Louisvilles when I was in a staff job and when I went to a unit mgr operations job the company continued to buy them-in particular for my operation...until the weight issue and Freightliner agresiveness took over. As I think I have said previously, IMO they should have stuck with the original truck with minor changes as a vocational truck. Thinking that they could make a dent in the OO market was a bad assumption. The Paccar twins for sure own that and it will be interesting just how well Mack makes out with their latest attempt at capturing a good share of that OO market. And speaking of Mack, if there was a market they ruled here in the northeast, it was construction. Now unfortunately you are seeing many such fleets going to Paccar and Western Star. And Macks decision to no longer offer manual transmissions in their new trucks will probably accelerate that trend. With many new CDL drivers road testing on automatics thereby restricting their license rating that may prove to support that decision but for the near term it will hurt them IMO. The vast majority of people have no idea how to drive a stick in a light duty vehicle, do you actually think they'll learn for a HD one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 People like manuals in sports cars because they're fun but I can't see any reason why a commercial driver would want one over an automatic (which I assume can be manually shifted if necessary). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said: The vast majority of people have no idea how to drive a stick in a light duty vehicle, do you actually think they'll learn for a HD one? Human progress. How many on this Forum ever boiled the feathers off of a chicken for the night's dinner? Me neither; chicken comes wrapped in plastic, of course! We don't husband horses anymore except for recreation or sport. Back in 2014-15, the company I drove for bought a couple Kenworth T-680's with 10spd dual clutch transmissions. Never has a tranny been so poorly designed that it was always in the wrong gear at the wrong time. One of the drivers quit and went elsewhere. The boss had 13 spd's put in after driving one himself for a month. I gather they're better now, and having retired from the industry several years ago, I was unaware that there was a rating system for AT's and manuals now. AT's have progressed to the point that for most mpg is better than a manual, and as AI develops, I believe that motor vehicles and aircraft will no longer have operator controls. Like stained glass and birch bark canoe making, driving will become a lost art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 9 minutes ago, Motorpsychology said: Human progress. How many on this Forum ever boiled the feathers off of a chicken for the night's dinner? Me neither; chicken comes wrapped in plastic, of course! We don't husband horses anymore except for recreation or sport. Back in 2014-15, the company I drove for bought a couple Kenworth T-680's with 10spd dual clutch transmissions. Never has a tranny been so poorly designed that it was always in the wrong gear at the wrong time. One of the drivers quit and went elsewhere. The boss had 13 spd's put in after driving one himself for a month. I gather they're better now, and having retired from the industry several years ago, I was unaware that there was a rating system for AT's and manuals now. AT's have progressed to the point that for most mpg is better than a manual, and as AI develops, I believe that motor vehicles and aircraft will no longer have operator controls. Like stained glass and birch bark canoe making, driving will become a lost art. Dual Clutch units are actually 2 manual gearboxes side by side with a computer controlled clutch and input shaft so the power transfer is the same as a regular manual. Very little drivetrain loss - no torque converter. And they can be manually paddle shifted. Even regular automatics like the Ford 10 speed can be manually shifted when necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 (edited) 55 minutes ago, akirby said: People like manuals in sports cars because they're fun but I can't see any reason why a commercial driver would want one over an automatic (which I assume can be manually shifted if necessary). My new Triumph motorcycle has a digitally controlled quick shifter standard, as other brands are installing them as well; twist the throttle, toe the shift lever up or down, no clutch action needed except launching from a stop. Class 7, 8 Automatics may be better than they were 10-11 years ago when I briefly drove one of two my company bought. They were horrible to get along with, IMO. They were prone to lurching, especially in reverse while trying to finesse the trailer into a dock, always downshifted too late on a grade, and manually shifting one was little improvement because the gear ratios were wrong, chosen for milage, not work. The only place they were mildly helpful was stop-n-go traffic, but skillful professionals can pace the traffic and idle along for long stretches without shifting. Edited May 5 by Motorpsychology 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 6 minutes ago, Motorpsychology said: My new Triumph motorcycle has a digitally controlled quick shifter standard, as other brands are installing them as well; twist the throttle, toe the shift lever up or down, no clutch action needed except laughing from a stop. Class 7, 8 Automatics may be better than they were 10-11 years ago when I briefly drove one of two my company bought. They were horrible to get along with, IMO. They were prone to lurching, especially in reverse while trying to finesse the trailer into a dock, always downshifted too late on a grade, and manually shifting one was little improvement because the gear ratios were wrong, chosen for milage, not work. The only place they were mildly helpful was stop-n-go traffic, but skillful professionals can pace the traffic and idle along for long stretches without shifting. The computer controlled clutch in my pdk Porsche is perfect once rolling but it is a bit odd when stopped or almost stopped especially backing up. But it's not terrible. I could see how that might be worse in a teuck. And gearing is always super important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 4 minutes ago, akirby said: The computer controlled clutch in my pdk Porsche is perfect once rolling but it is a bit odd when stopped or almost stopped especially backing up. But it's not terrible. I could see how that might be worse in a teuck. And gearing is always super important. I notice that my 10 speed transmission is slow to kick into a lower gear if i'm going slow (less then 15-20 MPH)..like I'm pulling away and let off the gas then get back on it to accelerate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 14 minutes ago, akirby said: The computer controlled clutch in my pdk Porsche is perfect once rolling but it is a bit odd when stopped or almost stopped especially backing up. But it's not terrible. I could see how that might be worse in a teuck. And gearing is always super important. 9 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: I notice that my 10 speed transmission is slow to kick into a lower gear if i'm going slow (less then 15-20 MPH)..like I'm pulling away and let off the gas then get back on it to accelerate. Dynaflow for the win!😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schpark Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Honda and BMW both have fully automatic (no clutch) transmissions in some bikes now. Not for me, I stuck with the quickshifter and clutch combo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 48 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: I notice that my 10 speed transmission is slow to kick into a lower gear if i'm going slow (less then 15-20 MPH)..like I'm pulling away and let off the gas then get back on it to accelerate. In urban driving, I often have Trailer/Towing engaged in my 10R80 Ranger. smother shifting and the Start-Stop is disengaged. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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