Motorpsychology Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 $19,000 Ranchero?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 11 hours ago, akirby said: Pure AI hogwash. Ranger lightning? Godzilla F150? Yeah I didn't put much trust in it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 3 Author Share Posted July 3 1963 to 1994 B-series, and it's NOT a school bus!! https://share.google/oRlUwx1LMwm4Da8Yt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 3 hours ago, Joe771476 said: 1963 to 1994 B-series, and it's NOT a school bus!! https://share.google/oRlUwx1LMwm4Da8Yt Thx Joe. No clue what the Suburban sales figures were but wonder what Ford's wisdom was not to offer such a vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Thx Joe. No clue what the Suburban sales figures were but wonder what Ford's wisdom was not to offer such a vehicle One thought would be direct competition for Econoline Club Wagons and Chateau's ..... I don't believe the Econolines were sold in South America, especially as people movers. That would then open the SA market up to Ford B-Series....and also be a reason why they were never offered here. Edited July 4 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotRunrGuy Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 11 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Thx Joe. No clue what the Suburban sales figures were but wonder what Ford's wisdom was not to offer such a vehicle Since these were done by aftermarket converters, are they really any different than the Centurion conversions that were done in the US? https://www.drivingline.com/articles/ford-centurion-conversions-gave-us-the-f-150-based-4-door-bronco-suv-the-factory-never-did/ I came real close to buying one of these back then, but then the Expedition became a reality. HRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 13 hours ago, twintornados said: One thought would be direct competition for Econoline Club Wagons and Chateau's ..... I don't believe the Econolines were sold in South America, especially as people movers. That would then open the SA market up to Ford B-Series....and also be a reason why they were never offered here. Sometimes WISE and FORD don't go together! But anyway, it's just like when Ford created the Premier Auto Group with JLR, Volvo, and Aston Martin. Did you REALLY think Ford would want such an entity to succeed and hurt Lincoln sales??!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 3 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Did you REALLY think Ford would want such an entity to succeed and hurt Lincoln sales??!! Tell me you don’t actually know what happened without telling me you don’t actually know what happened… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 12 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Sometimes WISE and FORD don't go together! But anyway, it's just like when Ford created the Premier Auto Group with JLR, Volvo, and Aston Martin. Did you REALLY think Ford would want such an entity to succeed and hurt Lincoln sales??!! The PAG was created by Jac nASSer and was the reason why Ford went on a buying spree, grabbing Land Rover, Jaguar, Volvo, and Aston Martin because he would not be caught dead in a Lincoln....Lincoln (and Mercury) was originally included in PAG, but were later removed early on in the experience. The rest is history as PAG was dismantled as a failure and the brands, save for Lincoln and Mercury, were sold off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 5 Author Share Posted July 5 12 hours ago, SoonerLS said: Tell me you don’t actually know what happened without telling me you don’t actually know what happened… Yeah I know the whole story. Counter culture tops the list. They overpaid acquiring them, sold them off for peanuts. Did you know the government offered Ford the opportunity to take over VW after WWII? Do you think for one minute VW would be the powerhouse it is today if Ford had taken it over? It would have been relegated to a lowly division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 On 7/4/2026 at 6:20 AM, twintornados said: One thought would be direct competition for Econoline Club Wagons and Chateau's ..... I don't believe the Econolines were sold in South America, especially as people movers. That would then open the SA market up to Ford B-Series....and also be a reason why they were never offered here. Good thought...but while GM was selling Suburbans weren't they also selling Passenger versions of the Chevy van? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 14 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Yeah I know the whole story. If you think PAG failed because Ford didn’t want competition for Lincoln, you need to unlearn what you have learned in error. The PAG debacle nearly killed Lincoln, and I’m not entirely certain that killing Lincoln wasn’t the point of Nasser’s plan. There was a red-headed stepchild in that mess, and it was decidedly NOT Jag, Aston, LR, or Volvo. Edited July 6 by SoonerLS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 On 7/5/2026 at 6:00 AM, twintornados said: The PAG was created by Jac nASSer and was the reason why Ford went on a buying spree, grabbing Land Rover, Jaguar, Volvo, and Aston Martin because he would not be caught dead in a Lincoln....Lincoln (and Mercury) was originally included in PAG, but were later removed early on in the experience. The rest is history as PAG was dismantled as a failure and the brands, save for Lincoln and Mercury, were sold off. Your nASSer is correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 6 Author Share Posted July 6 (edited) Built Ford Tough: https://share.google/q2yZF3n25ks1eAXOJ But I was watching what turned out to be a a Ford Pro TV ad at the local watering hole and they showed some F350's hauling a backhoe on a flatbed trailer which is a joke. Wow, really impressive huh?! And they showed some other applications and a bunch of Transits and they stated in so many written and spoken words "The #1 seller of commercial vehicles." But do you think they could have shown some medium duties? Noooooooooooooooooooo! It's like they don't want to give the wrong impression by implying they're in mediums for the long haul because they're not sure they're going to be making mediums much longer. Well at least that's the impression I got. Forgetting the U-Haul story for a moment, the CTDOT just bought a bunch of F750 dumps on which plows and sanders were mounted for this last winter. Some local municipalities piggy backed on the State bid. And while I think of it, how did Ford win and not have Peterbilt underbid them? Or did Ford "give" the trucks away? Asplundh Tree Removal has a bunch of F750's. Like I said before, I dare Ford to drop the mediums. The tree guy I used has a bunch of Class 2 thru 5 and several F750's because of commonality/dealer familiarity. Take that away, and Ford's light duty F-series will suffer dramatically. There, I said that for the umpteenth time! Edited July 6 by Joe771476 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 On 7/6/2026 at 7:41 AM, Joe771476 said: Like I said before, I dare Ford to drop the mediums. The tree guy I used has a bunch of Class 2 thru 5 and several F750's because of commonality/dealer familiarity. Take that away, and Ford's light duty F-series will suffer dramatically. There, I said that for the umpteenth time! Well, I could see where dropping the 450 thru 600 Super Duty models might have an effect on fleet sales of the lighter Super Duty trucks, but at this point I don't think dropping the 650 and 750 models would have any effect on sales of other Ford trucks, fleet or otherwise. Purely an anecdotal observation on my part, but I would say that the majority of large fleets that I see with class 3 through 5 Fords in their fleet are soucing their class 6 and larger trucks from PACCAR, International, and Freightliner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 There's also the issue of driver and technician familiarity- For example, a fleet with a lot of F series pickups that needs bigger trucks is likely to buy a Ford medium because their drivers and techs are already familiar with Fords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 11 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Well, I could see where dropping the 450 thru 600 Super Duty models might have an effect on fleet sales of the lighter Super Duty trucks, but at this point I don't think dropping the 650 and 750 models would have any effect on sales of other Ford trucks, fleet or otherwise. Purely an anecdotal observation on my part, but I would say that the majority of large fleets that I see with class 3 through 5 Fords in their fleet are soucing their class 6 and larger trucks from PACCAR, International, and Freightliner. Not since the days of the International pickups & Scouts. Their full line Int'l dealers could sell implements, tractors and class 1-8 trucks. It's uncommon for a customer able to "one stop shop" for class 1 thru 5-8. If the class 1-3 dealer is part of a group that has a class 4-8 store, they may be able to bird dog each other for the same customers' business, but the transactions are separate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 17 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Well, I could see where dropping the 450 thru 600 Super Duty models might have an effect on fleet sales of the lighter Super Duty trucks, but at this point I don't think dropping the 650 and 750 models would have any effect on sales of other Ford trucks, fleet or otherwise. Purely an anecdotal observation on my part, but I would say that the majority of large fleets that I see with class 3 through 5 Fords in their fleet are soucing their class 6 and larger trucks from PACCAR, International, and Freightliner. 17 hours ago, 7Mary3 said: Well, I could see where dropping the 450 thru 600 Super Duty models might have an effect on fleet sales of the lighter Super Duty trucks, but at this point I don't think dropping the 650 and 750 models would have any effect on sales of other Ford trucks, fleet or otherwise. Purely an anecdotal observation on my part, but I would say that the majority of large fleets that I see with class 3 through 5 Fords in their fleet are soucing their class 6 and larger trucks from PACCAR, International, and Freightliner. But they would be Fords if Ford built class 8 AND Ford sent sales agents out to pitch class 6 thru 8! Look at the sales figures for Ford mediums WITHOUT EVEN TRYING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 23 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said: There's also the issue of driver and technician familiarity- For example, a fleet with a lot of F series pickups that needs bigger trucks is likely to buy a Ford medium because their drivers and techs are already familiar with Fords. Again, maybe that's a valid point with class 3 through 5 Super Duty trucks but the 650's and 750's are a different ball game anyway and aside from similar powertrains (and similar powertrain problems!) they don't share much. If the fleet has vehicles up through class 7 and 8 it would probably be better to source their class 6 trucks from the same vendor they get the larger trucks from if they are looking for consistancy. Which is what I see and is consistant with my own fleet experiences. Edited July 10 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 If I had to guess as to the poor sales of 650/750, I would say the lack of promotion is the biggest reason sales are what they are. I would think to the experienced fleet guy that might be viewed as the kiss of death. Do I want to invest in trucks that will probably no longer be around in a year or two? As I've previously mentioned, The New England Ford dealers ran their own add frequently on tv spots highlighting Super Duty capabilities-snow plows- but they also included a 650/750 pulling a tag with a TLB on it. And as to capabilities of the Power Stroke/Ford trans, while I was a skeptic, A friend runs a heavy spec 650 dump- that also pulls his heavy tag trailer- derated to 25,999 to avoid the CDL issue and in his mind the truck is a winner as it is pushing 100,000 miles. And as Joe mentioned, CT. DOT has them in their fleet as does Mass DOT. And I have seen them out this past winter on secondary roads with 10/11' plows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 14 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: If I had to guess as to the poor sales of 650/750, I would say the lack of promotion is the biggest reason sales are what they are. You keep saying this but do you really think a fleet buyer doesn't already know about 650/750 and already does comparison shopping? These aren't impulse buys or buyers who don't know trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 6 hours ago, akirby said: You keep saying this but do you really think a fleet buyer doesn't already know about 650/750 and already does comparison shopping? These aren't impulse buys or buyers who don't know trucks. I think promotion and frequent face contact are important in medium/heavy. The rep from the Kenworth dealer where my company bought their T680s was at our shop a couple-three times a year with the latest Paccar and KW-specific info, and often a bunch o' logo caps for the drivers and mechanics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 47 minutes ago, Motorpsychology said: I think promotion and frequent face contact are important in medium/heavy. The rep from the Kenworth dealer where my company bought their T680s was at our shop a couple-three times a year with the latest Paccar and KW-specific info, and often a bunch o' logo caps for the drivers and mechanics. Of course but he's specifically talking about tv ads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 8 hours ago, akirby said: You keep saying this but do you really think a fleet buyer doesn't already know about 650/750 and already does comparison shopping? These aren't impulse buys or buyers who don't know trucks. AK You make my point. The fleet buyer sure does. In particular if he goes back to the old days and bought Louisvilles and then committed to HN-80..and then found out the new trucks he had recently took delivery of or had on order were gone..or maybe he was relieved that Daimler was the buyer and they would be serious about heavy trucks. And they were for 10 years until they came out with F'liners that duplicated the "Fords". Now go to today's market. In Mass a very large distributor of recovery trucks-wreckers, roll backs, rotators- keeps a big inventory of completed units ready to go in service. Up to class 5, I would say Ford rules followed by Ram. Class 6 and 7?...International followed by F-liner, Paccar and lately Hino. Ford a minority. Do 650/750 meet basic specs? Yes, but if a buyer wants air brakes and a gas engine? No luck -and do you think some buyers may view Ford's ever diminishing order guides a sign of things to come. Could be. Remember, blowing up Bluediamond IMO was in part a "bone" thrown to UAW when production of 650/750 moved from Mexico to OAP. Yesterdays newspaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 7/11/2026 at 10:54 PM, Bob Rosadini said: If I had to guess as to the poor sales of 650/750, I would say the lack of promotion is the biggest reason sales are what they are. I would think to the experienced fleet guy that might be viewed as the kiss of death. Do I want to invest in trucks that will probably no longer be around in a year or two? As I've previously mentioned, The New England Ford dealers ran their own add frequently on tv spots highlighting Super Duty capabilities-snow plows- but they also included a 650/750 pulling a tag with a TLB on it. And as to capabilities of the Power Stroke/Ford trans, while I was a skeptic, A friend runs a heavy spec 650 dump- that also pulls his heavy tag trailer- derated to 25,999 to avoid the CDL issue and in his mind the truck is a winner as it is pushing 100,000 miles. And as Joe mentioned, CT. DOT has them in their fleet as does Mass DOT. And I have seen them out this past winter on secondary roads with 10/11' plows. Heavy trucks were up 145 units for June, and only down 193 for the year.... Declines have shrunk from a "high" of 480 in March to 193 in June. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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