akirby Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 13 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Now go to today's market. In Mass a very large distributor of recovery trucks-wreckers, roll backs, rotators- keeps a big inventory of completed units ready to go in service. Up to class 5, I would say Ford rules followed by Ram. Class 6 and 7?...International followed by F-liner, Paccar and lately Hino. Ford a minority. Do 650/750 meet basic specs? Yes, but if a buyer wants air brakes and a gas engine? No luck -and do you think some buyers may view Ford's ever diminishing order guides a sign of things to come. Could be. Ok but that has nothing to do with advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Ford clearly knows they only want to participate in a particular slice of the Class 6-7 market. It's reflected in their product strategy. From the outside looking in, it seems that Ford is happy with fleet customers that have large Class 3-5 fleet and only need a handful of Class 6-7. These customers are incentivized to keep their fleet and spare parts simple by adding F-650/750 since they are already a big Ford account. Daimler and Paccar are targeting slight different customer that have large fleets of Class 6-7 (or maybe even Class 8 ) and dedicated diesel shops. Hino looks to me is really trying to exploit Isuzu's weakness beyond Class 5 and lack of front engine options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 I think bzcat is right on the mark. And, Ford's strategy is apparent looking at their Pro Dealers. You don't see the large 'Ford Truck' center commercial dealers anymore that sold everything up to class 8, open all night, located near major interstate highways, etc.. Ford Pro dealers are targeted at smaller fleets, and are primarily light duty up to class 5, and are usually part of a car/light truck franchise. That's where Ford's market is, and if they can sell a few class 6 and 7 trucks to their targeted customers fine. Good point about Isuzu as well. Some years ago (at Roger Penske's behest) Hino went into the class 6/7 conventional market with some success. Isuzu actually followed for a short time with a Isuzu-badged version of the Chevy Kodak with an Isuzu 6HK1 diesel in it, but very few were sold. Since then Isuzu has struggled meeting demand and focused on class 3 through 5 LCF's. Isuzu has relied on both GM and Spartan Motors to assemble their trucks in the U.S. for many years, but is now building a large new plant in South Carolina. I expect Isuzu to gain market share and explore new commercial truck segments when that plant comes on line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 25 minutes ago, 7Mary3 said: I think bzcat is right on the mark. And, Ford's strategy is apparent looking at their Pro Dealers. You don't see the large 'Ford Truck' center commercial dealers anymore that sold everything up to class 8, open all night, located near major interstate highways, etc.. Ford Pro dealers are targeted at smaller fleets, and are primarily light duty up to class 5, and are usually part of a car/light truck franchise. That's where Ford's market is, and if they can sell a few class 6 and 7 trucks to their targeted customers fine. This is a new Truck solutions sales site a few towns over from me-I remember when it was a Lincoln/Mercury and Merkur dealership in the 1980s LOL https://allamericanfordinpointpleasant.worktrucksolutions.com/VehicleSearch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Don't forget Ford's focus in Class 6-7 is really stripped chassis for step vans, school bus, and motorhomes. Any incremental sale they get from F650/750 with cab attached is just gravy in my opinion. Air brakes and complicated transmission are not needed for step van and motorhome markets. This is why they are not keen to invest real money into improving the products to compete more effectively with Daimler and Paccar. They do just fine with the products they have now. If you want a gas engine step van chassis with regular axles/trans that are easy to drive in the city or suburbs, Ford is the 500lb gorilla there. Navistar used to play here but Ford chased them out of the market completely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 7 hours ago, akirby said: Ok but that has nothing to do with advertising. Huh? Advertsing is not a key element of marketing ????🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said: Huh? Advertsing is not a key element of marketing ????🤔 What is a TV ad going to show a fleet buyer that they don't already know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 10 hours ago, akirby said: What is a TV ad going to show a fleet buyer that they don't already know? The aim of fleet advertising doesn't necessarily have to be aimed at the Fleet buyer. You structure your advertisements and campaign to appeal to their boss. I have a hunch that that is how Peterbilt got in the door at U-Haul. That was a Big Deal considering the capital investment U-Haul must have in Ford parts and Tech training to work on a national inventory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 20 minutes ago, Motorpsychology said: The aim of fleet advertising doesn't necessarily have to be aimed at the Fleet buyer. You structure your advertisements and campaign to appeal to their boss. I have a hunch that that is how Peterbilt got in the door at U-Haul. That was a Big Deal considering the capital investment U-Haul must have in Ford parts and Tech training to work on a national inventory. I get it but bzcat nailed their sales strategy which doesn't really need advertising. 19 hours ago, bzcat said: it seems that Ford is happy with fleet customers that have large Class 3-5 fleet and only need a handful of Class 6-7. These customers are incentivized to keep their fleet and spare parts simple by adding F-650/750 since they are already a big Ford account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Once again I think many are ignoring just what the class 6/7 market Is. IMO, it is not restricted to the big fleets with mostly class 8 vehicles. Granted there are exceptions such as UPS and some rental companies but the bulk of the 6/7 market is American small business of all types where the truck is not the primary breadwinner but something that supports the business..such as building contractors, manufacturers, food, furniture vendors, heavy equipment dealers etc. And this I say is the true class 6/7 market. I spent my 44 yrs split between an international oil and a very large pvt co. that involved dairy, C-stores, gas stations and agriculture. Class 6/7 a very small percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearheadGrrrl Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 For a lot of big fleets the F mediums are too small, as they have the volume to fill up tractor trailer rigs. The more common F medium buyer is a small business that started with a pickup or van and outgrew it. When they go shopping for that bigger truck they may not even bother with Ford, as Ford and most of there dealers seldom promote the F series mediums and a lot of buyers don't even know they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 11 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said: a lot of buyers don't even know they exist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Lots of clutching of pearls in this thread, glad these people don't actually work for Ford and making the decisions lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 (edited) Bob has a lot of experience in class 6 and I don't disagree with him. But my own experience with F-650 colors my opinion and why Ford is really not in competition with Daimler. I did the capex analysis at my old employer. We were a gasoline shop meaning we don't have diesel or DEF tank on site. We operated a small fleet of F-450 and 550 plus some Transit passenger vans. When the project team came up with requirements for 4x medium duty, the requirements were thus limited to: 1. gas power 2. easy to operate (we don't require CDL) 3. low maintenance cost/burden F-650 was literally the only logical choice. Freightliner M2 on paper seems like a good option but when you factor in the fact that you have to consider diesel infrastructure and maintenance costs, the math just didn't work. I'm just venturing a guess that my former employer is very typical of Ford F-650 buyers. Freightliner is targeting customers that operate mainly Class 6-7 fleets so they are already diesel shop with CDL drivers. Ford is targeting customers that operate mainly Class 3-5 fleets and probably mostly gas shop that want the fleet commonality. The F-750 derated to allow non-CDL driver seems trivial but it's actually probably one of the biggest selling point. Edited July 15 by bzcat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 15 Author Share Posted July 15 Wasn't there a time when VW said they were coming out with a pickup truck? Or even International/Navistar (owned by VW/Traton)? Anyway, I wish Freightliner and VW would enter class 1 thru 5! Maybe that would light a fire under Ford so they'd retaliate by getting into class 8. Is it that hard to go from class 7 to 8? Is the only thing stopping Ford from making vocational class 8's the air brake issue?! Give me a break! Or should I say give me an (air) brake!!??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Mary3 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) Ford currently does not have a powertrain, chassis, or dealer network for a class 8 truck. Nor to they seem to have any desire to enter that market, which is probably wise. I would be willing to wager Ford's excellent heavy truck joint venture in Turkey will eventually join IVECO. Regradless it's not coming here. You may recall Freightliner briefly entered the class 3-5 market with such products as the Ram-based Sterling Bullet, a few re-branded Mitsubishi Fuso's, and of course the Sprinter van and its derivatives back in the mid-2000's. From what I understand most of their dealers, both Freightliner and Sterling, didn't want any part of it. The Sprinter wound up with it's own light commercial dealer network. Edited July 17 by 7Mary3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 On 7/15/2026 at 10:18 AM, Sherminator98 said: Lots of clutching of pearls in this thread, glad these people don't actually work for Ford and making the decisions lol On 7/15/2026 at 10:18 AM, Sherminator98 said: Lots of clutching of pearls in this thread, glad these people don't actually work for Ford and making the decisions lol Gee, If you add up the missteps involving the Pinto, PAG, Explorer/Firestone, EV's and the recalls, to name a few, I think a lot of us could have made better decisions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 8 hours ago, Joe771476 said: Gee, If you add up the missteps involving the Pinto, PAG, Explorer/Firestone, EV's and the recalls, to name a few, I think a lot of us could have made better decisions! Says the person who can’t even link to articles properly… 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 12 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: Says the person who can’t even link to articles properly… Don't know what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 51 minutes ago, Joe771476 said: Don't know what you're talking about. Exactly my point: Your link to the article is this: https://share.google/q2yZF3n25ks1eAXOJ When it should be https://www.autoblog.com/news/ford-condenses-10-years-of-truck-abuse-into-just-four-months People have no clue what they are clicking when you use share.google/ link-for all I know I'm clicking into a malware link-this is computer safety/cybersecurity 101 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I even told him how to do it correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/15/2026 at 1:26 PM, Joe771476 said: Anyway, I wish Freightliner and VW would enter class 1 thru 5! Why, so they can become another footnote in truck history like Nissan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 5 hours ago, SoonerLS said: Why, so they can become another footnote in truck history like Nissan? It would be easier for Scout to come out with a Mid-size truck first and then try to move up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 11 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: Exactly my point: Your link to the article is this: https://share.google/q2yZF3n25ks1eAXOJ When it should be https://www.autoblog.com/news/ford-condenses-10-years-of-truck-abuse-into-just-four-months People have no clue what they are clicking when you use share.google/ link-for all I know I'm clicking into a malware link-this is computer safety/cybersecurity 101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Joe771476 said: I send the link from my Google email to my AOL email, read it, then drag the link into the body of this thread. So far, there's been no problem. If I inserted the wrong link regarding a topic, I apologize. But you should know I have a cataract in my right eye, and a Rincoln Town Car in the other! The articles are from bona fide sources or from youtube. And that "10 yr. abuse" article was quite a while ago I thought. Anyway. Edited July 19 by Joe771476 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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