RichardJensen Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Okay FB. No more posts on this thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 But in all seriousness, I really don't hate Lincoln (obviously I've bought them since 2000), I'm just impassioned as a Lincoln owner. I want to be a Lincoln evangelist, but I don't have the tools to be that yet so it's frustrating when you see Lincoln fumble so much on something that really isn't terribly inspired to begin with. Your setting your expectations too high... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 But that is not the case with BMW, and MB. They are luxury makers only. Only in the US...they are used as Taxis in Germany with steel wheels and the like.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Wow, I guess if you say Lincoln is making "profit" enough, it somehow become true. How the hell is MKS returning much in profit sellng 800 vehicles/month with lots of money on hood, at least around here. Or 600 MKT's/month with probably even more money on hood. Or 600 Navigators/month? And don't give me that stuff about everyone is buying gussied up model for $50,000+. We don't know that. The wake up call every month is Lincoln sales, they are abysmal no matter how blissful one is. Sure, MKZ sales should be good for 6-12 months as MKS sales were decent in the first year. I will stick with the consensus of auto reviewers...overall the MKZ is underwhelming and disappointing if it represents the new Lincoln Motor Company using base Ford motors. Explain why the 2.0T in the MkZ is bad but the SAME FREAKIN' ENGINE in the Jag XF and Audi A6 which both have LESS POWER is somehow OK or STFU. Exactly the point I brought up that was never addressed - is the 2.0T motor just as unacceptable in the XF? Those sales are sustainable, and Ford really keeps those vehicles current and competitive. If I can get a Fusion that good for $26,000 or so, you have to be crazy to pay at least $36,000 for MKZ with same drivetrain and a few useless features like buzzing steering wheel and push button gear selector. The car has been out for what, a few months now into its first model year????? How in the hell do you know they won't make continuous improvements to the vehicle each year, keeping it "current and competitive"......you know the same thing Ford did with its lineup throughout and since its turnaround? Sheesh... Again, XF has the same base powertrain - where's the uproar there? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbalek Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) I have driven the fully loaded Fusion Titanium which was about $38,000 and the fully loaded 2.0T MKZ which was about $48,000. I liked both vehicles but they are different enough in my eyes to justify the $10,000 price difference. The gorgeous, even exotic styling makes the Lincoln exclusive not to mention the free maintenance for 4 years and the dealer experience, free loaners, car washes, etc. Then there's the tangible, unique features like glass roof, electronic suspension, cooled seats, all-LED lighting, push-button gear selection, heated steering wheel and rear seats, power open/close trunk, real wood or metal accents, thicker glass and more sound insulation, etc. Why is all that not worth $10,000? If you don't think so, that's because YOU'RE NOT a luxury car buyer. You're a Ford Buyer! Edited April 1, 2013 by hbalek 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I have driven the fully loaded Fusion Titanium which was about $38,000 and the fully loaded 2.0T MKZ which was about $48,000. I liked both vehicles but they are different enough in my eyes to justify the $10,000 price difference. The gorgeous, even exotic styling makes the Lincoln exclusive not to mention the free maintenance for 4 years and the dealer experience, free loaners, car washes, etc. Then there's the tangible, unique features like glass roof, electronic suspension, cooled seats, all-LED lighting, push-button gear selection, heated steering wheel and rear seats, power open/close trunk, real wood or metal accents, thicker glass and more sound insulation, etc. Why is all that not worth $10,000? If you don't think so, that's because YOU'RE NOT a luxury car buyer. You're a Ford Buyer! This, ladies and gentlemen, is what counts. Not magazine writers or bloggers. Unlike the old MKZ there are significant differences that make it worthwhile to SOME buyers. As long as that equals at least 3K/month I think Lincoln will be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbalek Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 This, ladies and gentlemen, is what counts. Not magazine writers or bloggers. Unlike the old MKZ there are significant differences that make it worthwhile to SOME buyers. As long as that equals at least 3K/month I think Lincoln will be happy. I'm in love with the Explorer Limited and I seriously considered trading in for one. You know what seemingly trivial Lincoln feature I would miss and didn't want to lose? Cooled Seats! Yes, silly but I guess I'm a luxury car buyer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I'm in love with the Explorer Limited and I seriously considered trading in for one. You know what seemingly trivial Lincoln feature I would miss and didn't want to lose? Cooled Seats! Yes, silly but I guess I'm a luxury car buyer... That was the biggest issue my wife had giving up her Aviator for an Edge. We just didn't like the MKX styling back in 08 and it wasn't worth $5K just for the cooled seats (back then). I have a feeling though that a MkC would fit the bill nicely as an Edge replacement in a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 ...while we wait for new Lincoln product? We all know what's coming. We all pretty much know when it's coming also... I'd *love* to see your list, Nick!! Does it go much beyond 24 months? You know, I'll be allot less cranky when the new MKX is here Which probably means another 2 years of crankiness... according to *my* list, the X will be out in just over 12 months (possibly shown at NAIAS 2014 - no later than NYC2014). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) Only in the US...they are used as Taxis in Germany with steel wheels and the like.... Exactly. MB, BMW have entry-level models at comparitive prices. The hi-end models justifiy the cost of shipping IMHO. BMW is trying to reach into new markets here but with at a premium price. I think with Ford going world-wide, I'm sure a Lincoln can be competively priced in it's market. Edited April 2, 2013 by Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 according to *my* list, the X will be out in just over 12 months (possibly shown at NAIAS 2014 - no later than NYC2014). Seeing that Expedition mule running around, you'd have to think that a new Navigator may also be coming late next year too.. Fingers crossed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 but you can't get the exotic chassis engineering and technology to match the competition in refinement and handling. Like that in the MKZ that had the non-stock high-performance tires that went through a slalom faster than just about every sedan on the market? Seems the active suspension technology works just fine and is competitive. Remember, it may be a domestic company, but Ford invented Control Blade and RevoKnuckle (concepts since copied by those you are in thrall of), and when it comes to chassis engineering and technology, Ford is a leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I have a suggestion for a new Lincoln Ad. Town Car driving along, bursts into flames revealing MKT which bursts into flames revealing new Aviator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 How about transforms into rather than involve fire of any sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 (edited) How about transforms into rather than involve fire of any sort. LOL, yeah why not... You could morph through a whole bunch of lincols driving down the road, that would be neat maybe giving people a tiny peak at the vehicles coming to Lincoln. Edited April 1, 2013 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) You could morph through a whole bunch of lincols driving down the road, that would be neat Almost a hundred years of Lincolns to pick from, yep like the idea. Edited April 2, 2013 by Ron W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 But that is not the case with BMW, and MB. They are luxury makers only. MB has Smart and BMW has Mini. But you could argue they are not mainstream brands although they are not luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) even I don't think the MKT is ugly... ...MKT which bursts into flames... I *LIKE* this^ part Seeing that Expedition mule running around, you'd have to think that a new Navigator may also be coming late next year too..Fingers crossed... discussing this elsewhere, I'm coming to believe that a heavily refreshed Navi (engine, grille, some int) will debut and be ON SALE by LAIAS/November with an allnew aluminIum F-150-based superlight Navi coming out not that long after said nextgen F-150's Job1 of Q3 2014 the elsewhere-discussion is also leading me to think there's a *chance* of a blockbuster NAIAS14 for Lincoln with multi debuts Edited April 2, 2013 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 even I don't think the MKT is ugly... I *LIKE* this^ part discussing this elsewhere, I'm coming to believe that a heavily refreshed Navi (engine, grille, some int) will debut and be ON SALE by LAIAS/November with an allnew aluminIum F-150-based superlight Navi coming out not that long after said nextgen F-150's Job1 of Q3 2014 the elsewhere-discussion is also leading me to think there's a *chance* of a blockbuster NAIAS14 for Lincoln with multi debuts So possibly a two step upgrade, 1) engines and light refresh to get buyers interested followed by 2) the real McCoy with impressive weight reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'm in love with the Explorer Limited and I seriously considered trading in for one. You know what seemingly trivial Lincoln feature I would miss and didn't want to lose? Cooled Seats! Yes, silly but I guess I'm a luxury car buyer... The Explorer Limited has cooled seats. Just like my Explorer Sport has cooled seats. I used them a couple of weeks ago when it was in the mid 80's in the Valley. It was my first time with cooled seats, and it was a very odd sensation. Cool (haha), but odd. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbalek Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 The Explorer Limited has cooled seats. Just like my Explorer Sport has cooled seats. I used them a couple of weeks ago when it was in the mid 80's in the Valley. It was my first time with cooled seats, and it was a very odd sensation. Cool (haha), but odd. LOL I think it must have been added for 2013 because I've never seen it on 2011 or 2012's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Ahhh............... that would explain it. Mine is a 2013. On that note, luxury items do trickle down to the mainstream brand. They just stay exclusive on the luxury brand for a short time. It works that way on all luxury brands that also have a mainstream brand in the family. Thus, at some point, the original version of Lincolns suspension will show up on Fords. However, at some point, Lincolns version will become more sophisticated or different. Nothing stays exclusive on the luxury brand forever. That is what artificially limits the mainstream brand too much. Case in point is Chevrolet to Cadillac. You can't have AWD on a Chevy. Cadillac has it. However, GM forces you to move to a Buick, which you may not even like, to get it. That is stupid, and that is the example of artificial limits that hurt brands. GM is so busy trying to force you into the other one of their brands that they think you should want................ that they forget that there are a lot of other brands out there, that will also give you what you want. In typical GM fashion, they are too GM centric................ as in, there is no one else out there, and even if there is, how could anyone want anything other than a GM product?? This is what has to change in GM, and some here are advocating it for Ford and Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I'd *love* to see your list, Nick!! Does it go much beyond 24 months? It doesn't really have to go much beyond that. If the products that we already know are in the pipeline (new MKC, MKX, MKS, Navigator at the minimum, along with the currently brand-spankin' new MKZ) fail to make any significant impact to Lincoln's overall performance then I would be willing to concede by that point that the re-invention experiment has failed. If by then, Lincoln volumes have at least made some sort of significant recovery then it should be pretty safe to assume moving forward from that point that investment by parent company Ford should be secured for additional development of new and redesigned product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 It doesn't really have to go much beyond that. If the products that we already know are in the pipeline (new MKC, MKX, MKS, Navigator at the minimum, along with the currently brand-spankin' new MKZ) The Lincoln "new model" timeline (in the PPT linked in the "Did Ford show the new Edge" thread) showed the MKS a having had a "major MCE" for 2013, so I'd expect it to be tail-end Charlie on the new vehicle roll-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 "Again. Is there any 'there' there?"...asked any customers brought to dealers by months of advertising for absent vehicles.The piece is relatively informative for people that are less likely to follow car news, but there will be no surprises for us.No telling how things go from here. Even counting the goofs on launches including and since the original Escape, this was the single biggest bed-****ing I've seen regarding a Ford vehicle's intro. Yes, obviously unforseen. Yes, it's sucked to watch this mess for the last 5 months.I'll say this much: the MKZ already had immense pressure to change perceptions of Lincoln. Now, with its own launch a craptacular disaster in wasted ad money and even more doom/gloom headlines...if the car DOES revitalize the brand, it'll rank among the most impressive vehicles in Ford's history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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