hankjost Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This will be done on 2013 MKZ's by the dealer and will be standard on 2014 MKZ's. Includes increasing electric only speed from 62 mph to 85 mph. See article for more details. http://autonews.gasgoo.com/global-news/ford-plans-to-improve-hybrids-mpg-with-software-c-130717.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtkat Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 This is pretty good news. Hope it rolls out quicker than my car did (LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesN Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Well... have you ever heard that nothing is free?? Yes, Ford is going to do software changes without any hardware changes. They are going to close the grill shutters longer and more often, they are going to warm up the gas engine quicker, they are going to slow down the radiator fan and they are going to use some of the electric airconditioning to cool the gas engine. This all amounts to allowing the gas engine to run at a higher temperature than before. (Lets not worry about the fact that higher temperatures cause earlier failure of mechanical equipment.) Most importantly for gas mileage, they are going to allow the car to stay in EV mode up to 85 MPH. Now without being too techinical I have to mention that both electric motors and the gas engine are constantly connected to each other through gearing and without any clutches. This means that the speed of each motor is dependant on the speed of the others. At present the gas engine operates from 1000 to 4500 rpm. That is it's most economical range and that is good for gas mileage. The problem is that the electric motors have to spin forward or backward in order to accomodate the gas engine. Currently both electric motors are limited at 6500 rpm either direction. In order to go 85 MPH without turning on the gas engine the main electric has to spin at 9000 RPM and the small electric has to spin at 9000 RPM backwards. These motors are only designed to withstand 10000 RPM. (Lets not worry about the fact that higher RPM causes exponentially greater wear on the electric motors. We will just replace the ones that do fail early and let the consumer deal with a shortened lifetime on the vehicle.) Something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 Well... have you ever heard that nothing is free??Yes, Ford is going to do software changes without any hardware changes. They are going to close the grill shutters longer and more often, they are going to warm up the gas engine quicker, they are going to slow down the radiator fan and they are going to use some of the electric airconditioning to cool the gas engine. This all amounts to allowing the gas engine to run at a higher temperature than before. (Lets not worry about the fact that higher temperatures cause earlier failure of mechanical equipment.) Most importantly for gas mileage, they are going to allow the car to stay in EV mode up to 85 MPH. Now without being too techinical I have to mention that both electric motors and the gas engine are constantly connected to each other through gearing and without any clutches. This means that the speed of each motor is dependant on the speed of the others. At present the gas engine operates from 1000 to 4500 rpm. That is it's most economical range and that is good for gas mileage. The problem is that the electric motors have to spin forward or backward in order to accomodate the gas engine. Currently both electric motors are limited at 6500 rpm either direction. In order to go 85 MPH without turning on the gas engine the main electric has to spin at 9000 RPM and the small electric has to spin at 9000 RPM backwards. These motors are only designed to withstand 10000 RPM. (Lets not worry about the fact that higher RPM causes exponentially greater wear on the electric motors. We will just replace the ones that do fail early and let the consumer deal with a shortened lifetime on the vehicle.) Something to think about. Don't you hate it when you know more about cars than the company producing them? I know I sure do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfatdog Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I wonder why they choose 85mph? 65mph to 75mph is what most interstates are right? Why would they even want to try 85mph? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankjost Posted July 19, 2013 Author Share Posted July 19, 2013 Well... have you ever heard that nothing is free??Yes, Ford is going to do software changes without any hardware changes. They are going to close the grill shutters longer and more often, they are going to warm up the gas engine quicker, they are going to slow down the radiator fan and they are going to use some of the electric airconditioning to cool the gas engine. This all amounts to allowing the gas engine to run at a higher temperature than before. (Lets not worry about the fact that higher temperatures cause earlier failure of mechanical equipment.) Most importantly for gas mileage, they are going to allow the car to stay in EV mode up to 85 MPH. Now without being too techinical I have to mention that both electric motors and the gas engine are constantly connected to each other through gearing and without any clutches. This means that the speed of each motor is dependant on the speed of the others. At present the gas engine operates from 1000 to 4500 rpm. That is it's most economical range and that is good for gas mileage. The problem is that the electric motors have to spin forward or backward in order to accomodate the gas engine. Currently both electric motors are limited at 6500 rpm either direction. In order to go 85 MPH without turning on the gas engine the main electric has to spin at 9000 RPM and the small electric has to spin at 9000 RPM backwards. These motors are only designed to withstand 10000 RPM. (Lets not worry about the fact that higher RPM causes exponentially greater wear on the electric motors. We will just replace the ones that do fail early and let the consumer deal with a shortened lifetime on the vehicle.) Something to think about. Charles, do you know what the engine and EV RPM's would be for driving at around 70-73 mph? Do you think that speed would stress the engine and EV motors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesN Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 To answer two questions in one post, they chose 85 mph because that is as fast as they can safely turn the M2 (Main Electric Motor) with the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) stopped. That is with the ICE at 0 RPM. They figure if they are going for the best gas mileage then set the EV to stay on as long as possible. The ICE and M2 are interdependant for their speeds so it allows a range of RPM's at 70-73 MPH. Without getting really technical the ICE can run from 1000 to 4500 RPM. It's best gas mileage is around 2800 RPM as a guess. (Most gas engines are good at that speed). So if they are going to run the ICE and set the programing at 2800 for the ICE you would see about 4000 RPM on M2. The choice of M2 being a driver or a generator would also be left up to the programing. The catch comes in when you try to keep the ICE stopped and run only on M2 [EV mode], then your M2 speed goes to 7500 RPM at 70-73 MPH. (A speed not allowed at present.) Note all of the RPM's above are round figures. The factory can do anything they want with the programing including using either M1 or M2 as a motor, a generator or free wheeling. And they can let the ICE stop, go any speed up to the limit they set, run as a driver or open the valves and let it free wheel. The only thing they can not do is back up using the ICE. Reverse is driven only by M2. I hope this helps explain what I see going on here. If you want to hear more interesting things about our new cars just ask, I have talked long enough already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I hope this helps explain what I see going on here. If you want to hear more interesting things about our new cars just ask, I have talked long enough already. Given your previous comments, for a car that spends most of its time between 60 and 72 MPH, has 10,0000 miles on it and an ave MPG of 40.3, would you reprogram it or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jschmitt3 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I was thinking the same thing myself ..... I am absolutely thrilled with the gas mileage I am getting .... I am regularly getting 40-45 MPG going to work each day (14 miles) and consistently getting 50+ on the same trip home. What "kills" my overall numbers (40.5 lifetime) are the short trips where my AC has to run at full throttle for the entire trip < 5 miles .... In these situations, I normally get between 20 & 25 MPG ...... I don't know if it is possible, but as tech guy, I'd love to see a more technical description of what this reprogramming will be doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermans Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 I was thinking the same thing myself ..... I am absolutely thrilled with the gas mileage I am getting ....I am regularly getting 40-45 MPG going to work each day (14 miles) and consistently getting 50+ on the same trip home. What "kills" my overall numbers (40.5 lifetime) are the short trips where my AC has to run at full throttle for the entire trip < 5 miles .... In these situations, I normally get between 20 & 25 MPG ...... I don't know if it is possible, but as tech guy, I'd love to see a more technical description of what this reprogramming will be doing I typically get far better mileage with the AC on. The other day I went 25 miles with the air on recirculate, the fan on the 2nd lowest setting and the temp set to 74. The car got 42 mpg. This run was typical of the mileage I get with the AC on. My FFH does a little better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgman Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) I wonder why they choose 85mph? 65mph to 75mph is what most interstates are right? Why would they even want to try 85mph? I guess because whatever speed you are running at, if you are in effect coasting for periods off and on, there is no reason that the battery couldn't kick in a bit. Realistically 70 would have been fine. 60 is definetly too low. Try going steady 60 on any highway and see what happens. Myself, I can't weait to reprogram this thing. Don't keep a car long enough to worry about long life stuff. If anyone gets this "fix" notice or an actual drive in fix, let us know here please. Just for the record, I find that the HVAC vs windows open thing, I find that unless you hold the speed down and steady drive, it's tough to use the hvac and not effect the gas. Conditions have to be perfect. Edited July 24, 2013 by xgman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropy Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Interestingly, on a long trip over the last 2 weeks, i found i got slightly worse mileage on a l-o-n-g (4-5miles) down hill at 70-75mph than i got cruising along at 60-65 on the flat. Perhaps the 85mph spec on the new software would help that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgman Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Has anyone seen this fix in the wild yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serraph Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Has anyone seen this fix in the wild yet? Some of the Fusion have them already. More info are coming in from those that have the updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md3184 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Taking my hybrid in the morning I'll report back on any improvements. Lifetime MPG has fallen a bit short of my expectations at 36mpg, but I do a lot of highway driving and don't adjust my driving style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serraph Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Taking my hybrid in the morning I'll report back on any improvements. Lifetime MPG has fallen a bit short of my expectations at 36mpg, but I do a lot of highway driving and don't adjust my driving style. Hi Mark, did you get a notice or just randomly bringing it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md3184 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Didn't get any notice yet- I just happen to be due for my 10K prev maint; they are prepared for the update already. Don't wait for the notice if you're inclined to get fixed now. Its call the PCM (powertrain control m?)...also, updating the active shutters is part of the fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I have 100 miles since the PCM calibration (13B07 version 85.05) and it was obvious at 72 mph in Eco cruise- my normal commute speed - since it was in hybrid more frequently than the previous all ICE in the same conditions. I did not notice any other obvious changes in the HVAC or other cockpit available sensations. So can't tell if shutters were closed more, ICE temp rise time,etc. I had it done as part of scheduled maintenance and getting 2 issues fixed. Issues were: auto trunk would pop open frequently when parked and driver door speaker rattled at certain bass frequencies (THX system). Both repaired so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_h Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 I got my Fusion updated this morning, took an hour and all went well. From the 10-12 reports on the FFH forum about updates, probably 4-5 of them did not get applied successfully and had to be redone a second time. Below are comments from a different user on FFH, which I printed and left on my passenger seat (talked to tech when done, he said yes he saw the note and already had the correct version, though apparently some do not): Something to share with your service dept's tech so that your PCM update works on the 1st try: I was able to talk to the tech that did the PCM recalibration on my FFH yesterday (both times). He said that he read the Ford bulletin re-programming instructions 5 times before he figured out what the problem was. He indicated that while technicians know how to reprogram the IDS, they likely are just doing what they know to do. The bulletin in this case, though, clearly states that they must have Version 85.05 for the reprogramming to work correctly. Once he updated the IDS with the correct version, the recalibration worked like a charm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtkat Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Called my service dept and had to give the info for the update. He told me that he would have it ready and I could bring the car next Tuesday for the update to be installed. We do more city driving so not sure what overall impact we will have but I do like to have the most up to date software regardless. Our current lifetime mpg is 37 which is part to do with the wife's driving and twice what the old Kia got but still far below what I was looking for when we purchased the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgman Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Scheduled mine for this thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgman Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Scheduled mine for this thursday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 Scheduled mine for this thursday. Scheduled mine for this thursday. You getting it done twice? Interested in the results... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md3184 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 A couple hundred miles post update and I'm averaging 39pmg for a +3mpg improvement; pretty good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtkat Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Just got my update so will see how it goes. Service guy is kind of hard to speak with but it sounded like they installed the latest software update and he mentioned something 86. something for the number ? And it was under some sort of consumer satisfaction bulletin - One thing he told me is there was no way to turn on daytime running lights as the car did not have them - I did not argue the point as it is not a big deal. I guess now I need to take the car out on the interstate and run it around 70 to see if it jumps into EV mode in order to see if the update happened, not sure how else to tell. Is there a place to get the software version, like with a PC ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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