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Bye Bye Taurus, Hello Escape


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And that broke? Weird. Sounds almost like the metal might've gotten contaminated during casting

More than likely due to detonation. Tops of all the pistons were beat up pretty badly and the center two cylinders are the least effectively cooled (if you will) since the outers have 3 sides exposed vs only 2 for the center cylinders.

 

That car now has a stroked 351W & blown (good kind) to 393 cubes and runs 10.90's in the 1/4 (pure race car)

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I'm not buying the "needs a new engine" BS at all. Ask them for a compression test with results etc. I agree with the poster who stated lets just sell this guy a new car. Generally speaking when an engine goes you know it.

Totally agree. I had a Chevy Blazer with 2 cylinders down...and you can tell when the engine is going. Compression tests should have been done. My daughter owns a 2010 Taurus and never had a single issue with this car. Fit/finish/paint are outstanding. Bought it May 2010! I would love to know the name of the dealer who apparently isn't too knowledgeable on vehicles..other than trying to sell new ones!

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I don't think this is a case of classic engine failure. The car just stopped running, and the first fix attempted was replacing the PCM, not replacing the engine's guts.

Its either 'electrical' or 'mechanical'....and it appears they finally decided 'mechanical' (engine replacement!). Yes, most classic engine failures (I've had two of them) is the engine totally acting up....that's why we were suggesting that without any compression tests/bad cylinders etc...how did they arrive at needing a new engine?

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Actually pats Key is only needed during startup. Once started the key could be removed and can would stay running. However, can cause a no start.

According to the little info we have, I would suspect a timing chain component failure causing valve train issues or something like that. Hard to believe they would put a pcm in it at first attempt then come back with engine problems.

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Agreed, but unless the pcm doesn't communicate, I don't understand why pcm replacement would be the first attempt. A lot of times you can get crank no start without any codes. I would suspect a relative compression test with ids would show any low compression problems. Then a manual test and cylinder leak down test to make sure. Something to me doesn't add up. But its a moot point now.

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If something bizarre and unheard of happened to my car, it wouldn't stop me from recommending that car to someone else.

 

Probability trumps personal experience. Or do you base your decisions on the gambler's fallacy?

I chalk it up like my 99 Explorer 5.0L. While I loved that truck overall, it had so many dang fit/finish issues, electrical gremlins and then a loss of performance power issue that the dealer couldn't resolve and simply started throwing parts at it, that I swore off Explorers. Never had such issues with any of the Ranger or F150s I've owned.

 

When it comes to purchasing a product, I base such a large investment on my personal experience or that of individuals I know and trust. When recommended a vehicle or not, I will state how great such a vehicle (99 Explorer & 10 Taurus) were initially, but will also warn others of the many issues encountered. It's their money and decision on whether or not to purchase the product.

 

Catastrophic failure on a 3.5 is very rare. Just like it was on the 3.0 DOHC in the old Taurus. I have only seen one 3.5 that was toast. Interesting how some people have such different experiences. I have a customer with a 09 Flex with 170k on it. He will easily tell you how this has been the best car he has owned, he traded in a Nissan in 09. Just recently he has had some needed repairs, axle seal, o2 sensors, cooling fan.

 

2010 Taurus did have some fit and finish issues, brake noise issues, a few transmission sensor issues, a/c blend door actuator issues. But I personally would not be against buying one for worries of problems. Overall, they have been pretty solid.

 

But really, to have an engine to fail so suddenly without any warning is very unusual.

Heck, I'm not saying the 3.5L is the sole reason in not recommending the Taurus. I've seen/heard many more goods than bads about the 3.5L. If we end up purchasing a Flex, of course it'll come with the 3.5L and I wouldn't hesitate purchasing the vehicle. My not recommending the Taurus is the overall experience of the vehicle, with the dead 3.5L being the final straw. Not saying 2011 or newer models are as bad, since this particular Taurus was near the beginning of the release of the remodeled Taurus.

 

They are encouraged to be more parts replacers than to diagnose and repair.

 

Ford dealer did this on my 99 Explorer.

 

I'm not buying the "needs a new engine" BS at all. Ask them for a compression test with results etc. I agree with the poster who stated lets just sell this guy a new car. Generally speaking when an engine goes you know it.

Agreed! I think the dealer (small town due to where vehicle broke down) or Ford knew it was time for IR to re-up on this vehicle anyways, so they pushed for a new fleet purchase more than fixing.

 

I don't think this is a case of classic engine failure. The car just stopped running, and the first fix attempted was replacing the PCM, not replacing the engine's guts.

I can't say the PCM replacement was the 1st/last step taken in diagnosis. Just know from what my father-in-law communicated, was their initial work couldn't identify an issue, so they went to replacing the PCM. After that, I do not know what additional testing was completed. I'll try to get an update from him this weekend during the Broncos/Seahwks preseason game. Otherwise the poor guy is dreading driving the Nissan Versa he's stuck in now. Good mpgs, decent room, absolutely no power.

 

I don't think they're getting codes. And I think V8-X is old enough that his dad would probably know a mechanical failure when he heard one. And if there's one thing that mechanics should be able to quickly diagnose, it's a catastrophic mechanical failure in an engine.

Father-in-law is much more mechanical minded than I am (I'm decent knowledge wise). He used to drag motorcycles locally at Bandimere speedway and was always rebuilding motors. So I'm sure if it was more mechanically related, he would have said something to that effect, but the impression I received is it was more electrical/computer related issue.

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That's why I figured they went to the replacement powerpack route.

 

If they couldn't get a diagnostic code or see any visible damage, I'd imagine you'd run into so much labor trying to find the electrical issue, I'm not surprised they'd recommend gambling on a new powerpack.

 

(BTW: I'm pretty sure it's easier for Ford to ship & probably easier for the mechanic to replace an entire engine than to replace *most* of an engine, given how they manufacture those things--AFAIK, they're dressed at the plant, shrink wrapped, palleted and shipped off to the factory ready to drop in and connect.)

 

----

 

And re: recommending or not recommending the '10 Taurus, I guess I'd say if you'd recommend the Taurus if the engine hadn't gone, then, speaking for myself, I'd recommend it anyway, as the odds of that happening twice, when the mechanics have no idea what happened seem incredibly remote. If the mechanics were like, 'Oh, yeah, that's the CPS. I've seen that before. Was a bit of an issue with the 2010 3.5s', or even, 'this isn't the first 3.5L I've seen that stopped dead and didn't throw a fault code', that'd be one thing, but this seems like such a one-off occurrence.

Edited by RichardJensen
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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay so the father-in-laws order is in for a Sunset 2014 Escape SE 4x4 EB2.0L, no leather no MFT. IR has since moved him from a rental Equinox to a rental Versa and now he's in a 2013 Escape SE 4x4 EB2.0L.

 

Went for a ride with him this weekend, as it was his birthday and will say that EB2.0L has some spunk to it. That is probably the most appealing aspect of this vehicle. Will say the turbo whistle/wine may get old though, as you could hear it with the windows down (especially when bouncing off the houses) with only slight/average acceleration through residential neighborhoods. My initial impressions, were it has fairly good fit/finish for the quick walk around we did. Material quality was average for this type of vehicle and price point. Both us like the gauges, but not too fond of the whole dash style, reminds us too much of a mini-van. Ultimately he's had it for roughly a week now, and while he likes the performance of the EB2.0L, he liked the style and overall performance of the Taurus better. So while he actually has warmed up to the Escape more, it's still not a vehicle he'd purchase himself or when IR retires this vehicle. Maybe they'll change over the next 3yrs once his is delivered.

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A couple of years ago, a local gas station (a so-called premium supplier--Mobil) got some really badly contaminated gas. Apparently it was contaminated to such a degree that those that purchased gas - when the in-ground tank began running really low (therefore a greater degree of contamination), were literally unable to to fire back up - right at the station's pumps. Some made it a few miles before shuddering to a stop and had to be given a ride on a roll-back to their dealers etc.

 

It hit the local news as there was a rather large number of engines that failed. Many were new M-B's, Audi's etc as the station is right at the Fla turnpike entrance/exit - right at the entrance to PGA National golf community. Because it was on all the local news reports, no doubt that many mechanics/dealers were able to diagnose the problem quickly.

 

But what about all those cars that filled up there and then continued on their trip (due to proximity to the turnpike) that were out-of-town and then failed later on - out of range of the local media - especially, if they received a less contaminated fill-up when the stations tank had more gas in it? As usual there was little follow up by the media and nothing was every disclosed as to how many vehicles were affected, had to have their engine rebuilt/replaced - only that the station was shut down for a couple weeks to pump out the bad gas etc.

 

Modern engines are manufactured to much closer tolerances and much more complex and are probably even more susceptible to such things, but whenever I hear about unusual engine failures now, that Mobil station's bad gas always comes to mind. Never did hear how much it cost them to replace/repair all those engines affected - probably tried to keep it on a very low key after all the bad publicity.

Edited by RaZor
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Update. Father-in-laws loaner 2013 Escape is in the shop. He has since been put into a 2013 Toyota Venza.

 

Check Engine light on the Escape came on last Tuesday (8/27). He turned the Escape off, let sit for 5-10 minutes and when restarted the light turned itself off automatically. Well, the light came back on last Thursday or Friday and did not turn off, so it's at the Ford dealership. He didn't say what they thought the issue was or how long it'd be in the shop.

 

Father-in-law is becoming very disenchanted with Ford products, as he barely had the Escape 2wks. Some of it is poking fun at me, being a Ford guy. But still boils down to another problem and being thrown into another vehicle. Since the Taurus went down, he's been in an Equinox (okay by his opinion), Versa (good mpg, low on power), Escape (good vehicle, but didn't like as much as the Taurus) and now the Venza. Scary part, is he actually kind of likes the Venza. Anyways, he's scared for when his 2014 Escape arrives, as many in his fleet have had a lot of shop time, so his experience so far doesn't look good.

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Update. Father-in-laws loaner 2013 Escape is in the shop. He has since been put into a 2013 Toyota Venza.

 

Check Engine light on the Escape came on last Tuesday (8/27). He turned the Escape off, let sit for 5-10 minutes and when restarted the light turned itself off automatically. Well, the light came back on last Thursday or Friday and did not turn off, so it's at the Ford dealership. He didn't say what they thought the issue was or how long it'd be in the shop.

 

Father-in-law is becoming very disenchanted with Ford products, as he barely had the Escape 2wks. Some of it is poking fun at me, being a Ford guy. But still boils down to another problem and being thrown into another vehicle. Since the Taurus went down, he's been in an Equinox (okay by his opinion), Versa (good mpg, low on power), Escape (good vehicle, but didn't like as much as the Taurus) and now the Venza. Scary part, is he actually kind of likes the Venza. Anyways, he's scared for when his 2014 Escape arrives, as many in his fleet have had a lot of shop time, so his experience so far doesn't look good.

 

Thanks for the update, V8-X. Your father-in-law has every right to be disenchanted. While poking around on www.truedelta.com, I noticed that the new Escape has a relatively high frequency of repairs. So if it's any consolation, your father-in-law (and his employer) are not alone regarding shop time with new Escapes.

 

Here's TrueDelta's comparison between 2013 Escape and 2013 CR-V:

truedelta2.png

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Thanks for the update, V8-X. Your father-in-law has every right to be disenchanted. While poking around on www.truedelta.com, I noticed that the new Escape has a relatively high frequency of repairs. So if it's any consolation, your father-in-law (and his employer) are not alone regarding shop time with new Escapes.

 

Here's TrueDelta's comparison between 2013 Escape and 2013 CR-V:

truedelta2.png

 

 

OUCH, that's not a good sign. Sad part, is the wife and I are looking at small CUV's with AWD for her. Was hoping maybe an Escape (even though I'm not a huge fan of them), but this is not a good sign to me.

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The 1.6 Escape has been the most common in the shop for us. The 2.0 has been pretty good across the board, escape, edge, explorer, taurus, with the exception of a few high pressure fuel pumps. The 1.6 is plagued with wiring issues, particulary two splices in the harness, also a coolant valve causing a CEL. I can't think of anything real common on the 2.0 for a CEL. At the moment, all parts for the escape seem to be coming in a normal time frame unlike when they were launched.

Hopefully they will get him taken care of soon.

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The 1.6 Escape has been the most common in the shop for us. The 2.0 has been pretty good across the board, escape, edge, explorer, taurus, with the exception of a few high pressure fuel pumps. The 1.6 is plagued with wiring issues, particulary two splices in the harness, also a coolant valve causing a CEL. I can't think of anything real common on the 2.0 for a CEL. At the moment, all parts for the escape seem to be coming in a normal time frame unlike when they were launched.

Hopefully they will get him taken care of soon.

Thanks!

 

Yeah it is the 2.0 that tripped the CEL. Waiting to hear back if he's coming over for the NFL kick-off game tomorrow (Broncos vs. Ravens) when I can hopefully get some more word, if there is any, on what the issue is with the Escape and if/when it'll be fixed.

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Father in law has the Escape back. I can't find any data on this, but the Ford Dealer informed him the CEL was tripped by a faulty wire harness that had been recalled. Don't show any wire harness recalls for the 2.0L, but who knows, maybe the dealer suggested it should be a recalled harness not one that actually has been recalled. He's not overly excited with the Escape so far, but is willing to take drive his 2014 when it's built/delivered and cross his fingers no issues occur.

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