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Paradox at Ford: Profits are soaring as problems mount

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grbeck

grbeck

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It seems to me that the root of one particular problem lies with the EPA testing regimen, not Ford:

 

Soon after the C-Max went on sale in September, owners, lawyers and the news media, including Consumer Reports, criticized the car for falling well short of the 47 mpg at which it was rated by the EPA -- a number Ford trumpeted in its marketing campaign. (emphasis added)

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Edstock

Edstock

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"as problems mount" — meh. Ford will always have problems, it's called manufacturing. If you make more units, you will get more problems. Some might even be insolvable, like Mercedes found when they could not get brake-by-wire work for the "S" class, and had to pull the feature from the market, even though it was engineered like no other. Life goes on. :)

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aneekr

aneekr

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Okay. Which one of Ford's problems is one that they've ignored? Which problem have they *failed to address*?

 

As stated in the article, Ford continues to struggle in the following areas:

 

"The four pillars of Mulally's recovery plan have served the company well: quality, green, safe and smart. But Ford has had problems in three of the four areas:

• Green, with the complaints that the hybrids didn't live up to EPA labels.

• Smart, with the design problems that led to widespread dissatisfaction with MyFord Touch.

• Quality, with the recall problems of the 1.6-liter EcoBoost engine, the botched launches and the huge drops in quality rankings issued by Consumer Reports and J.D. Power and Associates. The C-Max was the industry's worst-scoring model in this year's J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, sources told USA Today.

 

The string of missteps has surprised many industry observers after Mulally appeared to have the company on such a smooth path."

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aneekr

aneekr

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Some might even be insolvable, like Mercedes found when they could not get brake-by-wire work for the "S" class, and had to pull the feature from the market, even though it was engineered like no other. Life goes on. :)

 

Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) applications were W211 E-Class, C219 CLS-Class, R230 SL-Class, SLR, and Maybach. SBC was never used on S-Class.

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RichardJensen

RichardJensen

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Is Ford failing to address these issues, aneekr?

 

 

As stated in the article, Ford continues to struggle in the following areas:

 

"The four pillars of Mulally's recovery plan have served the company well: quality, green, safe and smart. But Ford has had problems in three of the four areas:

• Green, with the complaints that the hybrids didn't live up to EPA labels.

• Smart, with the design problems that led to widespread dissatisfaction with MyFord Touch.

• Quality, with the recall problems of the 1.6-liter EcoBoost engine, the botched launches and the huge drops in quality rankings issued by Consumer Reports and J.D. Power and Associates. The C-Max was the industry's worst-scoring model in this year's J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, sources told USA Today.

 

The string of missteps has surprised many industry observers after Mulally appeared to have the company on such a smooth path."

 

Ford is addressing every one of these issues.

 

1 - applies ONLY to the C-Max; it is hardly a company-wide issue. And, in fact, the C-Max's new FE rating is within decimal points of what is being reported in aggregate on Fuelly, a website that you--among others--consider to be more definitive than the EPA's rigorous and scientific methodology.

 

2 - Ford screwed up when they hired Bsquare in 2008 or whenever. They've since been replaced and will not be developing new products for Ford. Ford has also moved to continue to improve this product. What more do you expect them to do? Rush a replacement product into service that will likely have significant issues because you cut corners to get it released?

 

3 - Yes Ford had launch issues. In 2012 and 2011. Are these -ongoing- issues? Really? Isn't it more likely that Ford screwed up when they estimated the cost & time required to adapt EU platforms for NA assembly? And if that's the case, then when is Ford going to bring over another engineered-in-EU platform for NA assembly?

 

To sum: Ford has made some missteps, but I can't find evidence that they are -doubling down- on those missteps. They are not using Bsquare to develop the next generation of MFT. They are not continuing to bring over platforms from, basically, other companies and install them in radically overhauled facilities.

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Edstock

Edstock

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Sensotronic Brake Control (SBC) applications were W211 E-Class, C219 CLS-Class, R230 SL-Class, SLR, and Maybach. SBC was never used on S-Class.

 

Sorry about that, I wasn't that interested in specifics, really, just that the machinery meisters of Stuttgart hit a speed-bump with brake-by-wire, and had to give up on it. :)

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jpd80

jpd80

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Its more about how the company is trending as a whole. The Cmax just happens to be the latest fiasco in a series of screw ups.

And like all the other end of world problems, they will get through this one.

Bottom line is that outside of internet forum discussions, these issues hardly rate with buyers.

People are adult enough to know mistakes are made, it's how companies deal with them that matters.

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akirby

akirby

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If the C-Max had been rated at a combined 43 mpg since Day 1, would people still complain as loudly?

 

43 mpg combined is still pretty good, and can probably be exceeded with the correct driving habits.

 

Some people here would, yes - the same ones that are still complaining that Fusion drivers can't get 47 mpg.

 

The problem is they were launched in winter so the initial mpg reports were in winter on winter blend fuel on cars with < 5K miles all of which will kill hybrid fuel economy. Now that it's summer and they're broken in the ones who know how to drive a hybrid are meeting or exceeding 47 mpg. But I suspect there are an awful lot of new hybrid drivers who bought Fusion and C-Max hybrids who don't know how to drive them yet.

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svtenthusiast

svtenthusiast

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Posted (edited)

This article and many of the user comments are spot on.

 

1. Yes, the EPA rating process is flawed, especially with the new technologies like hybrid. They allowed them to rate the CMAX to "similar" vehicle (Fusion Hybrid). So Ford CHOSE to rate the same because they were ALLOWED but they did not have to. They decided to take a gamble for sake of advertising the CMAX and they lost.

 

2. The BSquare root of the problem still is biting them and their customers since the 2011 Edge. They should of started a full rewrite while making the current customer systems usable along time ago. The system will still continue with inherent flaws until they do so.

 

3. Botched launches continue: Focus had a 6 month delay and many DCT issues. Escape had delays and many recalls with customer vehicles that were newly delivered and then out of operation for lack of part supplies for months. Fusion had a recall on all headlamps, Ecoboost 1.6, and now gas tank issues. MKZ had huge delays, quality inspections, and now gas tank recalls. These are the high level items, there are daily communications concerning TSB's and service holds/announcements the dealers have to deal with that are frankly out of hand right now.

 

4. I think we can stop making excuses at this point and admit that Ford has bit off more than they can chew in both technology (MyFord touch primary) and chassis (EU platforms). If they keep plowing ahead and relishing in their profit, it will come back full circle to failure. all the customers you have drawn in by the do dads and designs will not make the same mistake twice and take their business elsewhere next time. Couple this with customer service practices that are inconsistent at best.

 

 

Ford is addressing every one of these issues.

 

1 - applies ONLY to the C-Max; it is hardly a company-wide issue. And, in fact, the C-Max's new FE rating is within decimal points of what is being reported in aggregate on Fuelly, a website that you--among others--consider to be more definitive than the EPA's rigorous and scientific methodology.

 

2 - Ford screwed up when they hired Bsquare in 2008 or whenever. They've since been replaced and will not be developing new products for Ford. Ford has also moved to continue to improve this product. What more do you expect them to do? Rush a replacement product into service that will likely have significant issues because you cut corners to get it released?

 

3 - Yes Ford had launch issues. In 2012 and 2011. Are these -ongoing- issues? Really? Isn't it more likely that Ford screwed up when they estimated the cost & time required to adapt EU platforms for NA assembly? And if that's the case, then when is Ford going to bring over another engineered-in-EU platform for NA assembly?

 

To sum: Ford has made some missteps, but I can't find evidence that they are -doubling down- on those missteps. They are not using Bsquare to develop the next generation of MFT. They are not continuing to bring over platforms from, basically, other companies and install them in radically overhauled facilities.

Edited by svtenthusiast
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NickF1011

NickF1011

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Posted (edited)

2. The BSquare root of the problem still is biting them and their customers since the 2011 Edge. They should of started a full rewrite while making the current customer systems usable along time ago. The system will still continue with inherent flaws until they do so.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that they aren't? Entire software re-writes and testing can take years. Do you think they developed the first MFT software package any faster?

 

And even once they do have an entirely new package written, I doubt that it will be backwards compatible with the existing hardware anyway. At best, the current versions will get patches for another couple years and that's gonna be the best it's going to get. That's how the software world works and owners who opted for MFT need to just accept that. It's not like any other automakers are going to operate any differently in this regard. How are those updates coming along for the first generation of iDrive? ;)

 

Hi everyone. :)

Edited by NickF1011
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Extreme4x4

Extreme4x4

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It is an instant world, and everything is supposed to happen right now......................... because I am very important and very special (remember that everyone is special now, and I believe them). So, I should not have to deal with the inconvenience of split second lags in screens and a few electronic quirks. My very important life cannot handle those extra microseconds wasted in my day. Plus, since all other electronic items work flawlessly, and never need updates, my car should be the same way.

 

Now, get out of my very special way. I would be on my computer, but it is currently performing updates. :)

 

Yes there are a few quirks with MFT, still. However, they are minor and rarely affect me to any degree. My system has still only performed a scheduled maintenance once, for a total of 5 minutes. This is in 12K miles. I am very pleased with the system, and while still learning new things all the time, all of the basics were very simple. Frankly, I see no rush in installing the latest upgrade, as I have had so few problems.

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