MGallun Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Is this engine intended to replace the 3.0? everything that has 3.0 will get this eventually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 (edited) Is this engine intended to replace the 3.0? everything that has 3.0 will get this eventually? evetually .. I believe the 4.0 is its immediate target right now ... The D30 has an update/upgrade coming that could bump it to more refinement and power, so make it adequate for several more years. However I believe the 4.0 is to be eliminated quickly. I might be wrong however, because all my info is from here.. not from insider info. Igor Edited August 15, 2006 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I might be wrong however, because all my info is from here.. not from insider info. Same here. However, I don't know a single application where the 3.5L is replacing the 4.0L. There isn't a "truck" application yet as Ranger/Sport Trac/Explorer are staying 4.0L. The 3.5L is targeting 3.0L applications: Freestyle/500 and MKZ (Fusion 2008?) and other new "car" applications, i.e. Edge. Rumors have pointed towards a 3.8L derivative for truck applications may be in the works. Alledgedly the 3.8L will replace both the Cologne 4.0L and the Essex 3.8/3.9/4.2. I think the truest indication of the future of the 3.0L will be whether the "new" '08 Escape shows up with the 3.0L or the 3.5L. If it runs the 3.0L, I think the 3.0 is here for years to come. If the Escape features the 3.5L, then the 3.0L will phased-out completely. In my opinion. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I think the truest indication of the future of the 3.0L will be whether the "new" '08 Escape shows up with the 3.0L or the 3.5L. If it runs the 3.0L, I think the 3.0 is here for years to come. If the Escape features the 3.5L, then the 3.0L will phased-out completely. In my opinion. The problem is that the 2008 Escape goes into production next January and I believe Ford will not have the capasity for the 3.5L with the Edge and MKX launch this fall and then D3 cars in the Spring, which need it more then the Escape. Last thing I heard was the Escape was MAYBE getting the engine in 2009, But then again I think their would be too much over lap between the Escape and Edge to a point. A PIP 240HP 3.0L in the Escape or the addition of the 6 speed for it would help out alot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 A 240hp 3.0L Duratec would be nice, but it'd also have to be torquier than the current Duratec...smoother & quieter couldn't hurt either. And if the 3.5L is available, why bother modifying the older 3.0L when you could just make more 3.5Ls? The 3.5L should be available soon. Lima's already making them and isn't there another plant coming online soon? Ford's gonna need 400K+ 3.5Ls minimum next year (200K Edge/MKX, 200K D3 triplets, 25K MKZs) as a conservative guess. What can the two plants build? If they can push 600K a year, the Escape triplets could benefit from the 3.5L. And Nissan is a good example of where Ford should go with their engine lineup. Make one world-class V6 and spread it from $20K up to $40K. Toyota is moving that same direction with their new 3.5L, Rav4 to ES350. Don't try to be GM with different engines for every different level of spending. 2.8L & 3.6L for the big spenders. 3.4L for the cheapies. 3.5L & 3.9L for the middle players. That made sense when GM & Ford controlled more than half of the US market. Now, it doesn't make sense to cut assembly costs when you need to double development costs for the "cheap" engines. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave5150 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Anybody hear who else might build the 3.5L? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 A 240hp 3.0L Duratec would be nice, but it'd also have to be torquier than the current Duratec...smoother & quieter couldn't hurt either. And if the 3.5L is available, why bother modifying the older 3.0L when you could just make more 3.5Ls? The 3.5L should be available soon. Lima's already making them and isn't there another plant coming online soon? Ford's gonna need 400K+ 3.5Ls minimum next year (200K Edge/MKX, 200K D3 triplets, 25K MKZs) as a conservative guess. What can the two plants build? If they can push 600K a year, the Escape triplets could benefit from the 3.5L. And Nissan is a good example of where Ford should go with their engine lineup. Make one world-class V6 and spread it from $20K up to $40K. Toyota is moving that same direction with their new 3.5L, Rav4 to ES350. Don't try to be GM with different engines for every different level of spending. 2.8L & 3.6L for the big spenders. 3.4L for the cheapies. 3.5L & 3.9L for the middle players. That made sense when GM & Ford controlled more than half of the US market. Now, it doesn't make sense to cut assembly costs when you need to double development costs for the "cheap" engines. Scott the difference is that the 3.0 and 3.5 will be interchangeable for the car to use and the factory to make. we need to make the 3.0 more efficent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oac bodyboy Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 In Oakville we were told that this new 3.5 L motor would be in 1 out of 5 vehicles that ford will build by 2009. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Anybody hear who else might build the 3.5L? 3.5L production will have begun by the end of the year in Lima (which has already started) and Cleveland #1. That should be able to supply at least a few hundred thousand of these engines...perhaps as many as a half million or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_fairmont_wagon Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 I believe that the number on the power improved Duratec 30 are going to be 235-240 HP and 215-220 lbs of torque. I've seen numbers in that range on several sites now. Its not that far fetched as the d30 is currently at 220+ hp and ~210 tq in the fusion. The low hanging fruit is exhaust valve variable cam timing and a multi-geometry intake (multiple runner lengths with butterfly valves, etc.) We're only talking about 5% torque increase and < 10% hp increase. By the way, those numbers will put the D30 in the same ballpark with Honda's much beloved 3.0L V6 in the accord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 By the way, those numbers will put the D30 in the same ballpark with Honda's much beloved 3.0L V6 in the accord. But people will still complain its rough/nosey/etc...:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 But people will still complain its rough/nosey/etc...:rolleyes: because it kinda is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 The whole question on the updated 3.0 is...when? It's joined the "improvements are just around the corner!" club so long inhabited by other FoMoCo regulars as the refreshed Focus, the refreshed D3s, the Fusion ST, and the SVT truck. Hey, Bill and Mark...y'know those products you want "hurried up"? SO DO WE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 because it kinda is. Yes....because it uses long life chains instead of expensive to replace belts. Ford should advertise that as an advantage instead of allowing consumers to believe some how the quieter Honda engines are superior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Yes....because it uses long life chains instead of expensive to replace belts. Ford should advertise that as an advantage instead of allowing consumers to believe some how the quieter Honda engines are superior. I thought the Honda V6 used a chain too. Either way... The Duratec30 is a noisy son-of-a-gun, and not a "good" noisy either. A bit rough around the edges. The Mazda cams on the MZ6 helped somewhat, giving the "roar" a bit of a "growl," same with the Jaguar version. The Duratec30 isn't terrible, it just needs some stroking by Ford's engine people and additional noise insulation on the products and it'd be fine. But why fine when the all-new more-than-fine Duratec35 is available? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkoesel Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 By the way, those numbers will put the D30 in the same ballpark with Honda's much beloved 3.0L V6 in the accord. True enough, but one has to wonder if that motor will even survive next years Accord redesign. I could see them going to a 3.2L or even a 3.5L. Most of the competition has moved on from their 3.0L motors or are soon (Ford and Mazda included) so I expect Honda will as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96towncarcartier Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 I'm truly loving this 3.5L engine before I've even seen or driven one. Everything I have heard and read indicates it is a superior, wonderful engine. Handshakes to everyone involved in its development! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted August 17, 2006 Share Posted August 17, 2006 Actually spring of next year when the Mazda6 is redesigned, it receives the D35. After the Zephyr, but waaayyyy before the Fusion/Milan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
range Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Wards Auto has an interview with the manager of the Duratech35 program. The 3.5L engine will come in 3.0 to 4.0 displacements, FWD and RWD applications, turbo, and DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang84isu Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Does anyone know if the 3.5L will get better MPG or at least match the MPG of the 3.0L? It'd be nice to see Ford matching Toyota's 3.5L MPG numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ150 Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Does anyone know if the 3.5L will get better MPG or at least match the MPG of the 3.0L? It'd be nice to see Ford matching Toyota's 3.5L MPG numbers. The Edmuds.com review of the new MKZ with the 3.5L said no EPA numbers are posted yet but that it would be similar to the 3.0L. I guess we will have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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