LSFan00 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I haven't spent much time here lately so maybe I missed this. Interesting sort of confirmation. Fair use; TTAC’s sources tell us that even though the next-generation F-150 hasn’t even launched yet, there are already early-cycle and mid-cycle updates in the cards. According to them, Ford is feeling the sting of losing out to Ram on the first half-ton diesel pickup race. A diesel F-150 was in the works, but became a casualty of the recession in 2008. Now Ford is apparently at work on a 3.0L V6 diesel, codenamed “Lion”, that is set to appear by 2018. In other powertrain developments, we’ve learned that the 2.7L Ecoboost will have somewhere in the ballpark of 290-300 horsepower, though torque numbers remain unknown. Around this time, we’ll also see a number of major developments for Ford’s truck line. A new 10-speed transmission will debut in both trucks and body-on-frame SUVs, as well as a new, aluminum bodied version of the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator. While production will take place in America, development is currently going on at Ford’s Mexican arm. heh... Edited January 31, 2014 by LSFan00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ummmmm, I don't think that link is what you intended to post, as it's a tad different that your quoted text.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Usual TTAC gibberish....why would Ford go through all that when the 3.2L 5 cylinder Powerstroke (re: Duratorq) is already federalized in Transit FS? PS: Here is the correct link TTAC "article" Edited January 31, 2014 by twintornados Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I haven't spent much time here lately so maybe I missed this. Interesting sort of confirmation. Lol. Interesting link. Now we know why you're not spending too much time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh, and for what it's worth, the decision on what material will be used for the Super Duty is still up in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh, and for what it's worth, the decision on what material will be used for the Super Duty is still up in the air. Any thoughts on whether the Super Duty and F150 will share bodies in the (near) future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Usual TTAC gibberish....why would Ford go through all that when the 3.2L 5 cylinder Powerstroke (re: Duratorq) is already federalized in Transit FS? Yeah, consider the source. I don't know why Ford would develop what would surely be a low-volume diesel for the F150 when they have one that's already had most of the work done. Maybe if they need to hit NVH targets for the Navigator that the I5 PSD can't, but I doubt that F150 diesel buyers would be that particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Any thoughts on whether the Super Duty and F150 will share bodies in the (near) future? Everything I've heard says they remain seperate. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSFan00 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Lion is a relatively old engine now, but my real reason for thinking it may have some credibility is that surely some other apps for it are going away (ahem, J/LR.) Issue w/ diesel Ram is it is relatively underpowered I think, and if choosing lion between 2.7-4.4L I am not sure F would go with the larger one at all, and the smaller ones just seem doomed to a similar weak-for-fullsize-pickup-day-to-day fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 TTAC’s sources tell us I stopped reading right there...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The TNonTAC hates F-150's, always trying to internationalize them, force diesel only, midsizers. They also lied about the F-150 having delays awhile ago but are still linking to it. If we have to wait to 2018 for the 10 speed that will suck. Hope it is more BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Usual TTAC gibberish....why would Ford go through all that when the 3.2L 5 cylinder Powerstroke (re: Duratorq) is already federalized in Transit FS? PS: Here is the correct link TTAC "article" Yes, TTAC usually just make up shit, and I'm not saying they are right this time... But Ford wouldn't really need to "go through" anything because the 3.0 V6 already exists (Ford makes it in UK for Jaguar Land Rover and is also used in T6 Ranger and Territory). I wouldn't be that surprised if Ford is working on EPA and CARB emission certification for 3.0 V6 as they can recoup the investment by charging all the hard costs to Jaguar Land Rover, which cannot even remotely meet the 2017 CAFE unless they start selling diesel Ranger Rover and Range Rover Sport and LR4 in 2016 model year. Edited January 31, 2014 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Lion is a relatively old engine now, but my real reason for thinking it may have some credibility is that surely some other apps for it are going away (ahem, J/LR.) Issue w/ diesel Ram is it is relatively underpowered I think, and if choosing lion between 2.7-4.4L I am not sure F would go with the larger one at all, and the smaller ones just seem doomed to a similar weak-for-fullsize-pickup-day-to-day fate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17 270 hp / 440 lb ft is too weak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Oh, and for what it's worth, the decision on what material will be used for the Super Duty is still up in the air. Pioneer, whatever happened to that nano steel that was rumoured some time ago?... Edited January 31, 2014 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92merc Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_AJD-V6/PSA_DT17 270 hp / 440 lb ft is too weak? I think the other thing that changed the game was that Ford decided to bring over the diesel transit van. Since Ford was going to go through all the Federal emissions hoops to get that approved, it's likely Ford changed gears and will use that engine in the F150, should they decide to put a diesel in there at all. I think Ford is waiting to see what the actual uptake on those Rams before committing to a diesel F150. Plus, Ford is going forward with Ecoboost as its front line defense. So they don't want to add confusion by now saying a diesel might work better. Since Ford is committed to the turbo gas line, the money is better spent there since anything spent is more likely to be able to be used in other vehicles. Back to TTAC, they're probably just trolling to see if Ford will respond. Just like they did to say there were problems with aluminum production. So Ford had to come out and say, no we're not. And Alcoa too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) TTAC just doesn't get it., 2.7 Ecoboost is F150s "diesel" and will reach more Ford half ton buyers than a diesel would. Consider the current situation with engine option pricing, a 2.7 Ecoboost is going to cost much less to option over the base V6 than the Ram Diesel will be to option over the base V6 - that $4,500 charge will play a major part in ending the debate on who buys diesel in half ton trucks and why they do it. Ford knows that main stream gas fuel economy is far more important. Edited January 31, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBirdStangSkyliner Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 TTAC seems to want to prove to Auto Express that they aren't number one any longer in the realm of automotive yarn spinning. I wouldn't doubt that there is some level of work going on at Ford involving a Diesel V6 for the F150. With a vehicle of that importance, uncertain fuel prices, and a competitive market there are probably multiple contingency scenarios. I'd be surprised if serious investment is being made, however. If you add the cost of Diesel to the aluminum components, there would seem to be too much cost in the equation for the manufacturer and consumers to split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 TTAC seems to want to prove to Auto Express that they aren't number one any longer in the realm of automotive yarn spinning. I wouldn't doubt that there is some level of work going on at Ford involving a Diesel V6 for the F150. With a vehicle of that importance, uncertain fuel prices, and a competitive market there are probably multiple contingency scenarios. I'd be surprised if serious investment is being made, however. If you add the cost of Diesel to the aluminum components, there would seem to be too much cost in the equation for the manufacturer and consumers to split. As I already noted above, it's not far fetched that Ford is working on 3.0 diesel for the US market but that would primarily be because they are doing it for Jaguar Land Rover (not for free of course), which is stuck between a rock and a hard place on trying to meet the 2017 CAFE. Ford has worldwide engine supply agreement with Jaguar Land Rover for 10 more years. TTAC just jumped to conclusion (of course) and assume Ford is doing this just for F-150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Back to TTAC, they're probably just trolling to see if Ford will respond. Just like they did to say there were problems with aluminum production. So Ford had to come out and say, no we're not. And Alcoa too. I agree with your post. "TTAC’s sources tell us that even though the next-generation F-150 hasn’t even launched yet, there are already early-cycle and mid-cycle updates in the cards." - duh, that' not news. You don't need sources for that. That's the way it always is. "According to them, Ford is feeling the sting of losing out to Ram on the first half-ton diesel pickup race." - according to you. "A diesel F-150 was in the works, but became a casualty....in 2008." - we knew about that from the press releases. "Now Ford is apparently at work on a 3.0L V6 diesel, codenamed “Lion”, that is set to appear by 2018." - like bzcat says they are ASSuming it is just for a F-150. "other powertrain developments, we’ve learned that the 2.7L Ecoboost will have somewhere in the ballpark of 290-300 horsepower, though torque numbers remain unknown." - thanks for nothing, ball parks have been on other sites already. TTAC is not reporting anything new, just info they got from other sites or common sense - "already updates in the cards" - no, duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 F-250: The new F-150 is Ford’s first step in a broad strategy to shift all of its full-size truck bodies, including the F-250 and F-350 Super Duty pickups and the Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator S.U.V.’s, to primarily aluminum construction over the next three years, Ford engineers said. The plan will create common manufacturing processes and tooling in Ford’s three United States truck plants. - NYT, January 10, 2014 2.7 EcoBoost: TTAC merely wrote that there would be a 2.7. This is not news and they were not the first. A 2.6 or 2.7 had been reported by PUTC first years ago. The 2.7 was confirmed on F-150 forums since last year. Exact post from the F-150 forums on January 2013: "As far as engines the 5.0L v8 and the 3.5L ecoboost are here to stay and are rumored to have increased fuel economy ratings along with more towing capacity thanks to the use of aluminum. They will be joined by a 2.7L V6 ecoboost 320hp/375 ft/lbs and a 3.5 N/A entry level v6 280hp/250 ft/lbs." http://www.f150forum.com/f2/2014-f-150-coded-p552-187918/ TTAC brought nothing new to the table and got the aluminum delay wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 What I find amusing about TTAC's noise: the 'code name Lion' stuff. Um. When Wikipedia already explains what the "Lion" diesel is, and where it's used, and how it's been in production for like 8 years now......................... And you're talking about how this engine is going to launch in 2018? That pretty much tells you all you need to know about TTAC's """""scoop""""". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Yeah, LOL at project Lion.... welcome to 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan1 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 What is sad is that everyone on putc is eating it up like it is some kind of scoop or something starting with Lou and Ryan with the Ford has "realized" it needs a diesel and how 2018 is the date: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/01/ford-to-boost-super-duty-production-by-15-percent.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) How many people strongly advocating for a V6 diesel in a Half Ton truck would actually go buy one? IMO, the people presenting the case for a diesel do not represent the views and opinions of the majority of buyers. What these people consider would be "nice to see" products may only in fact appeal to a handful of actual buyers and without having proper market research, how can an informed opinion for spending additional resources be justified?. Shouldn't better fuel economy across the whole vehicle line up be a higher priority, reaching as many buyers as possible? If that's the case, then presenting more efficient gasoline solutions would seem to be priority 1. Until Ford comes out and said it intended pursuing a diesel Half Ton,you can bet there's no viable business case for doing it. Ford no doubt constantly reviews the subject, buying trends and feedback from customers - is there something planned for 2018? I'd say it's too far of to call..without seeing and reviewing the '15 F150's reception and sales data next year. Edited February 2, 2014 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 ... TTAC brought nothing new to the table and got the aluminum delay wrong. In a recent news article, it was disclosed that Ford is planning a very long changeover at Deaborn Truck, 13 weeks. I also believe that Ford is still working out "issues" with stamping and assembly of the mostly aluminum body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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