Has Ford learned anything yet?

[bb62]

1) Show me one bit of corroborating evidence that the Super Duty is a 'halo' product that draws people into the more quotidian F150.

 

2) Ford has never had a 'fast follower' strategy. The Taurus, Mustang, Explorer, F150, none have been 'follower' products.

 

3) Compare interior volumes and dimensions between the Taurus and Fusion.

 

Taurus:

Headroom (Front) 40.0

Headroom (Row 2) 38.1

Hiproom (Front) 54.4

Hiproom (Row 2) 55.7

Legroom (Front) 42.2

Legroom (Row 2) 38.9

Shoulder Room (Front) 57.3

Shoulder Room (Row 2) 56.6

 

Fusion:

Headroom (Front) 38.7

Headroom (Row 2) 37.8

Hiproom (Front) 54.0

Hiproom (Row 2) 53.4

Legroom (Front) 42.3

Legroom (Row 2) 37.0

Shoulder Room (Front) 57.4

Shoulder Room (Row 2) 56.5

 

Gee. Looks pretty similar, except rear leg and hiproom and front headroom. There's 1 more cubic foot of trunk room and 5 more cubic feet of passenger room.

 

--BTW-- you do realize that when you say "Most people" you're talking about like 150 million people. If you think 150 million people, when shown the Fusion, will say, "hmm. looks like an updated Tempo".........

 

4) the Mustang and Mazda6 are built on the same line at AAI. Ford can build both Ranger and Explorer at LAP.

 

And finally, it's funny that you say the Taurus requires engineering resources that can no longer be supported, and yet the Panther persists. Furthermore, if Ford was turning even a minuscule profit on output from Atlanta, why would they close the plant this year, instead of 2008 (when Ford has scheduled a close for TCAP which builds the Ranger, which Ford DOES make a profit on), or extend the product into the indefinite future (like STAP, where they build the CV/GM)? Ford makes no money on the Taurus. It's too expensive to build and it's ASP is far too low. The CV/GM at least has about a 30% retail mix with the profitable GM line (which is itself about 60% retail). And finally, Ford has announced no plans to close STAP, whereas Atlanta is closing this fall. Will STAP close? Perhaps, it certainly looks so, but you can draw a very distinct conclusion about what is profitable and what is not based on what is going away and what is not.

 

Just another rejectionist.

 

I think we need to have a "Why Ford is doomed" forum, so all you guys can just sit around confirming each others opinions and feeling smug.

 

1. I guess you just had to read the program approval paper.

2. Ford has ALWAYS had a fast follower strategy with respect to TECHNOLOGY.

3. The Fusion is internally considered a CD car just like the Mazda 6 upon which it is based. The Taurus is and always was a D-sized vehicle. As far as closing Atlanta, the original plan was to put D219 production there, but that died when volume forecasts were too low and Chicago won.

4. As far as STAP closing, just wait. There are no Cycle Plans for the CV/GM - and regulatory requirements have to be built in years in advance.

 

As far as being a rejectionist:

 

North American Sales

2000 - 4.933 mil

2001 - 4.292 mil

2002 - 4.061 mil

2003 - 3.900 mil

2004 - 3.733 mil

2005 - 3.580 mil

2006 - 3.465 mil (forecast - the real numbers will be lower)

 

When considering that Ford has lost market share every year since 1995, it seems as though it is the buying public that is the rejectionist.

[RichardJensen]

1. I guess you just had to read the program approval paper.

2. Ford has ALWAYS had a fast follower strategy with respect to TECHNOLOGY.

3. The Fusion is internally considered a CD car just like the Mazda 6 upon which it is based. The Taurus is and always was a D-sized vehicle. As far as closing Atlanta, the original plan was to put D219 production there, but that died when volume forecasts were too low and Chicago won.

4. As far as STAP closing, just wait. There are no Cycle Plans for the CV/GM - and regulatory requirements have to be built in years in advance.

1) Too bad you can't post a link to it. Or to any 'unnamed' Ford source stating words to that effect.

2) Oh. You mean like AWD in passenger cars? Or six speed transmissions? No wait, you're talking about VVT and multivalve OHC truck engines. Wait. What are you talking about?

3) Of course the Fusion is a CD car. Only thing is, the Taurus is a pretty poorly packaged D car.

4) I'm well aware that there are no cycle plans for the panthers. I haven't once said there were. The point is that Atlanta has a definite close date, and it's this fall. STAP does not. Do not for a second believe that Ford would hesitate to pull the plug on the panthers if they were not turning a profit.

[Roadrunner]

Quite frankly, most people who look at the Fusion see it stylistically as an updated Tempo (put the two side by side - the similarities are surprising).

 

Wait, what the hell? I don't see it at all (although the grilles are modestly similar with the "bar" look).

Edited August 20, 2006 by Roadrunner

[Bluecon]

4) the Mustang and Mazda6 are built on the same line at AAI. Ford can build both Ranger and Explorer at LAP.

 

At the present time I do not believe Ford can build the Ranger and Explorer on the same line. Not without a multimillion dollar investment.

 

I think we need to have a "Why Ford is doomed" forum, so all you guys can just sit around confirming each others opinions and feeling smug.

Or you could call it 'The Bluecon was right Forum'

 

4) I'm well aware that there are no cycle plans for the panthers. I haven't once said there were. The point is that Atlanta has a definite close date, and it's this fall. STAP does not. Do not for a second believe that Ford would hesitate to pull the plug on the panthers if they were not turning a profit.

Politically it would be very difficult to close STAP because of the government of Ontario investment and deal with FMC. Same with Essex Engine Plant. It is still open but barely running.

[RichardJensen]

Politically it would be very difficult to close STAP because of the government of Ontario investment and deal with FMC. Same with Essex Engine Plant. It is still open but barely running.

Uh, yeah, Ford invested in STAP ($300M) BECAUSE the panthers make money.

 

Also, Ford also has investments planned at Essex engine:

 

"Sept. 18, 2005

Windsor, Ontario

For the thousands of Ford workers in Windsor there was good and bad news. The bad news, the casting plant will be closed in 2007; the good news, a new product is coming to the Essex engine plant. While there are a total of 1,100 jobs being cut Hargrove assured the workers that there will be no one on involuntary layoff."

[DCK]

You have forumers here that will argue that certain products aren't crap, like the focus, ranger, freestyle, crown vic, freestar and escape. Which they may not be crap though some of what i listed is without a doubt 100% crap, but let's not get into that.

 

Reality unfortunately counts as nothing in the market place. What counts is perception, it is what the public thinks, and the perception is that those products are crap, so whether they are or they aren't isn't the issue. The issue is that the public says they areand the sale numbers speak for themselves(yeah some of them still sell well but not compared to their peak). Why? well first of all because most of the ones i listed are either A. Are so fricking outdated and should of been replaced 100% years ago. B. Made with complete cheap ass quality plastics and other products. C. have terrible styling andhave become a joke because of it. D. terrible gas mileage or E. like in the freestar's case because they just are crap and there isn no hiding it.

Edited August 20, 2006 by DCK

[Bluecon]

Uh, yeah, Ford invested in STAP ($300M) BECAUSE the panthers make money.

 

Also, Ford also has investments planned at Essex engine:

 

"Sept. 18, 2005

Windsor, Ontario

For the thousands of Ford workers in Windsor there was good and bad news. The bad news, the casting plant will be closed in 2007; the good news, a new product is coming to the Essex engine plant. While there are a total of 1,100 jobs being cut Hargrove assured the workers that there will be no one on involuntary layoff."

Ford just announced that they are ending V8 machining operations at Essex Engine. All that is left are the V6 pushrod engines. With the end of the Windstar it is the end of those engines. It is now a one shift part time plant. They also announced the end of the 3rd shift at the high volume V8 engine line at WEP. What new product is going in Essex? There is already overcapacity for engines. Essex is likely done.

 

"At least 350 jobs will disappear at Ford of Canada's Windsor engine operations, possibly permanently, as the company took the first steps Friday to address a slump in truck sales.

 

Windsor Engine on Drouillard Road, which builds V-8 engines for Ford's F-series pickup trucks, will lose its third shift of 300 production and maintenance employees in October, the company said.

 

Fifty more jobs will disappear at Ford's Essex Engine Plant on Lauzon Parkway, said company spokesman John Arnone. The jobs are "in V-8 block and crankshaft production." "

 

 

"The layoffs are by no means the last Windsor will see for Ford. Its casting plant, or foundry, is scheduled to close next year, permanently costing the region about 1,000 Ford jobs."

 

Hargrove wasn't even close.

 

 

http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/news/sto...3b2e&k=2330

 

Hargrove was wrong. Looking at about 500 on layoff and more to come. Some people have been layed off for over a year and have given up hope of getting their jobs back.

 

http://www.cawlocal200.org/Layoff%20Information.htm

Edited August 20, 2006 by Bluecon