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Jalopnik: RWD Lincoln coming, and it's a crossover


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All the big luxury carmakers have done fairly well in the rear-wheel-drive game, what with their big luxury sedans and fancy, um, good styling. So Lincoln has finally decided, reportedly, that it wants a piece of that, and is getting into the game, too. With a crossover.

Yes, a rear-wheel-drive crossover.

 

 

http://jalopnik.com/lincoln-rumored-to-plan-a-rwd-model-but-its-not-what-yo-1643270438

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Sounds like my guy was right: The RWD program won out for Aviator and Explorer...

 

Expect Aviator to debut first, with Explorer coming after the 2016 MCE plays out.

 

Also, everything I've heard says the RWD sedan is still coming. I am unclear if the sedan and utilities are sharing a platform.

Edited by PREMiERdrum
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The report, from the Truth About Cars,

 

Huge grain of salt required.

 

It does make sense though if they want to take Lincoln higher. A D3 based Aviator wouldn't be very competitive in the $60K+ range. And if you're doing it for Lincoln then Explorer is almost a requirement to amortize the platform. What this really allows - more than off road ability - is more powerful drivetrains and more flexibility with styling.

 

And if you're doing a unibody crossover on that platform it shouldn't be difficult to add a sedan or two to further help with differentiation.

 

Cue Richard to tell us this is nuts.

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Awesome news, but that just opens a whole can of discussion. Rwd/Crossover, Ford will get version, so is it Expy-Light, is D3/4 Explorer going away and onto this new RWD platform ? Sales for the Explorer have been rather good, or will they just slot it as another offering to get more people into an Expy-Lite and what we know of the Expy will die ?

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Awesome news, but that just opens a whole can of discussion. Rwd/Crossover, Ford will get version, so is it Expy-Light, is D3/4 Explorer going away and onto this new RWD platform ? Sales for the Explorer have been rather good, or will they just slot it as another offering to get more people into an Expy-Lite and what we know of the Expy will die ?

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Huge grain of salt required.

 

It does make sense though if they want to take Lincoln higher. A D3 based Aviator wouldn't be very competitive in the $60K+ range. And if you're doing it for Lincoln then Explorer is almost a requirement to amortize the platform. What this really allows - more than off road ability - is more powerful drivetrains and more flexibility with styling.

 

And if you're doing a unibody crossover on that platform it shouldn't be difficult to add a sedan or two to further help with differentiation.

 

Cue Richard to tell us this is nuts.

 

TTAC is certainly sketchy...

 

However, this actually makes sense with what I've been hearing.

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Awesome news, but that just opens a whole can of discussion. Rwd/Crossover, Ford will get version, so is it Expy-Light, is D3/4 Explorer going away and onto this new RWD platform ? Sales for the Explorer have been rather good, or will they just slot it as another offering to get more people into an Expy-Lite and what we know of the Expy will die ?

 

There are still very different programs going for Explorer/Aviator and Expedition/Navigator:

 

RWD crossovers similar size-wise to current Explorer... Demand for top-end Explorers pushing $50k sealed the deal for the new Aviator. I've heard it's a looker.

 

RWD utilities, very much full sized, built off the new F-150 architecture. Internally, the Navigator is being pitted more again Land Rover than Escalade. This program is supposed to have the potential to completely shakeup the segment.

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And if you're doing a unibody crossover on that platform it shouldn't be difficult to add a sedan or two to further help with differentiation.

 

Cue Richard to tell us this is nuts.

 

Yes. Because the CUV derived MKS and Taurus have absolutely *no* limitations whatsoever.

 

And I find it very difficult to believe that Ford is going to build a RWD Explorer, given the packaging and cost disadvantages of that arrangement*.

 

Maybe it's not so much that P-D's "guy" was right, as it is that P-D's "guy" passed the same message on to TTAC.

 

 

 

 

*entry level cars are FWD because it's cheaper to build. And that's even more accurate when it comes to AWD. Not to mention the packaging advantages of transverse engine mounting. And somehow, we're to believe that Ford is going to sacrifice all those advantages on one of their most popular and profitable models in order to provide volume support for a 3-row luxury CUV, when the market for 3-row luxury CUVs basically fits into my back pocket? Is Ford taking a page from the GM book? And akirby, why are you supporting this, when if GM were doing it, you would be calling it what it really is--misguided?

Edited by RichardJensen
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I don't think the MKS and Taurus issues are because they're based on a CUV - it's because they're based on D3 and D3 itself has limitations.

 

A new platform should be able to handle both sedans and crossovers if you have that requirement going in. Isn't that what BMW does?

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Of course, the Explorer was always RWD/4WD before this generation... which makes me wonder if they put it on D3/4 solely for the purposes of filling the space left by Freestyle/Taurus X.

 

I think the problem with GM that we have is that they go all-out innovating Cadillac... which in and of itself is not a problem, except that Chevrolet, GMC, and Buick are still deficient in their most competitive segments (midsize sedan, fullsize pickup). Not quite the same with Ford.

 

I don't think the MKS and Taurus issues are because they're based on a CUV - it's because they're based on D3 and D3 itself has limitations.

 

A new platform should be able to handle both sedans and crossovers if you have that requirement going in. Isn't that what BMW does?

 

Not sure about BMW at current, but definitely Nissan/Infiniti and VW/Audi.

 

Hmm... if Explorer/Aviator is rumored to move to this platform... and it's a platform that ostensibly can support cars.........

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Yes. Because the CUV derived MKS and Taurus have absolutely *no* limitations whatsoever.

 

And I find it very difficult to believe that Ford is going to build a RWD Explorer, given the packaging and cost disadvantages of that arrangement*.

 

 

I'd argue that the D3 cars suffered more from the age of the platform and the modifications necessary to bring it up to snuff for crossover use. We're talking about a clean-sheet, group-up program with this intent from the start. That's a completely different story from the P80 to D3 saga.

 

Maybe it's not so much that P-D's "guy" was right, as it is that P-D's "guy" passed the same message on to TTAC.

 

 

Always possible.. "the worst part of anonymous sources is you never know who the hell they are!"

 

I'm asking questions and getting some responses...

 

- Aviator is a lock: RWD/AWD, 7 passenger crossover.. will play where the Navigator does price-wise (interesting to note that the 2015 Gator is priced directly in line the the Yukon, not the Escalade --PD)

- Navigator set to become the technological showcase for the company... prices will go up. They are targeting the typical Land Rover buyer and expect the 'Gator to beat the Rover in every way possible.

- Explorer will move to Aviator platform for next generation. This will likely be the last D3 product in production.

 

I'm still trying to find out where this "new" architecture has its roots...

 

I do know that Wes and I have different sources and he seems to have heard similar info.

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Of course, the Explorer was always RWD/4WD before this generation... which makes me wonder if they put it on D3/4 solely for the purposes of filling the space left by Freestyle/Taurus X.

 

Explorer moved to D3 because it's all they could afford at the time... Louisville didn't have the volume to produce something on a standalone, outsourced frame (from Magna IIRC).

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Maybe Ford is addressing a lot of the above problems on a CD platform? There is nothing stating that the Lincoln couldn't have a different transfer case than what we are seeing in the current Explorer. It would just be a RWD biased setup instead of FWD. That way they can still share a platform with the CD4's to save cost, only have the required changes needed for RWD bias. Still use a longitude engine install like Explorer.

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Just looking at the numbers game with this....doesn't seem to make sense...consider the following:

 

If Fords plan going forward is to use a CD4 based platform, you would have (In North America alone) nearly 730K units based off the CD4 and its varients....not including the Flex or MKT since they are supposed to die off.

 

If you cut out the Explorer and PIU out of this, your down to 190K units alone...I don't see how adding a luxury CUV on a RWD Explorer platform would be worth it since the sales numbers would be lucky to be around 20-25K units a year (For example, the MKZ sold about 24K units in 2013)...

 

Adding in sedan sales, in the form of the MKS, Taurus and PI would add another 110K units or so...so Ford is going to wind up removing and spending big cash on a platform that in North America would barely keep one plant busy on 2 shifts?

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I'd argue that the D3 cars suffered more from the age of the platform and the modifications necessary to bring it up to snuff for crossover use.

 

D3 was not modified to bring it "up to snuff for crossover use"

 

"We took a look at the attributes that make crossovers popular," says Ford Group Vice President, Product Creation Phil Martens, "and sought to deliver some of those qualities in a sedan. While the industry tries to create new car-based crossovers, the Ford Five Hundred stands alone as the first crossover-based car."

 

http://www.automedia.com/2005_Ford_Five_Hundred/rts20041101fh/1

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Just looking at the numbers game with this....doesn't seem to make sense...consider the following:

 

If Fords plan going forward is to use a CD4 based platform, you would have (In North America alone) nearly 730K units based off the CD4 and its varients....not including the Flex or MKT since they are supposed to die off.

 

If you cut out the Explorer and PIU out of this, your down to 190K units alone...I don't see how adding a luxury CUV on a RWD Explorer platform would be worth it since the sales numbers would be lucky to be around 20-25K units a year (For example, the MKZ sold about 24K units in 2013)...

 

Adding in sedan sales, in the form of the MKS, Taurus and PI would add another 110K units or so...so Ford is going to wind up removing and spending big cash on a platform that in North America would barely keep one plant busy on 2 shifts?

 

 

I assume that the Aviator and Explorer are an offshoot of CD4...

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Go all the way back... P2 was first used for the S80 sedan in '98 and then adapted "for crossover use" in '02 for XC90, before the "crossover based car" came out in 2005.

 

Yes. I know. But that's irrelevant. The problem is that once you've set up the suspension and subframes for a CUV, you can't build a decent sedan.

 

Please provide an example of a sedan based on a CUV platform that doesn't look like the Honda Crosstour or the Ford Taurus or the BMW X6.

 

And before you mention the Edge, bear in mind that the Edge and Fusion were not built on the same platform. Ford just called both CD3, in a bit of obfuscation similar to what VW has been doing for years.

Edited by RichardJensen
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Yes, yes this what I said Lincoln needed and the FWD mafia wacked me for saying this. There no American X5 / M class competition and the Germans make them in the US for goodsakes.

 

Huge difference between Lincoln NEEDS this and saying it could work.

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