fuzzymoomoo Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 LOL, love the kittens mate, I'm really feeling for you and your situation at the moment, beautiful product with glaring mistakes...yikes. It looks like DTP really started hitting the go button last month with over 20,000 builds. is there any way to identify when the vehicles in question were built? could they be early builds? or is this a drift in production performance from later builds, going to fast too soon? My guess is that they are earlier builds, and as they produce more, you will likely see the issue slowly being corrected (unless an immediate fix is found) Stuff like this is why its not always a good idea to buy a new model in the first 6-8 months of production. There is ALWAYS bugs that need to be worked out, some more serious than others. Its a risk you take by doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Come on Ford. Customers are paying a lot of money for these vehicles. Stuff like panel misalignment doesn't bod well with the customer and reflects badly of quality. It's not like Ford is new to the assembly line now is it? Why is it that it is so freaking hard to get panels to line up properly with all the measuring and CAD equipment to get it right? They have built in adjustments in the parts for a reason use it. They have process in place so this doesn't happen, don't they? They have quality inspectors don't they? So why is this happening? The passenger side front door on my 2012 Focus sticks out at the bottom over the rocker panel by a 1/4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Why is it that it is so freaking hard to get panels to line up properly In a word: Money. You don't have enough to pay for perfect fit. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 In a word: Money. You don't have enough to pay for perfect fit. Sorry. I can't believe you said that. The book of excuses I've been reading here just entered the realm of total BS. The silver 2015 F150 Platinum with the crooked-ass front bumper pictured earlier cost some customer over $56,000! What does Ford expect a customer to pay for a quality built truck then? And the statement "Don't buy an early production vehicle wait 8 months or more so we can get it right" is interesting...maybe Ford should offer a "Hit or miss quality early model discount" on the Monroney sitcker. I'll bet they got the bumper and everything else on this 2015 on straight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 And this is coming from a Ford truck fan/customer. Nobody can deny this launch is critical for Ford probably the most important this decade. Ford took enough time and certainly spent enough money to get it right. Beyond it being Ford's most profitable vehicle the aluminum gamble is being watched closely. Excuses don't fix problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) You people are acting like this is a ford exclusive problem. It isn't. Every manufacturer, no matter what the product is, has issues at the start of production. An assembly line isn't as simple as many of you seem to think, there's a ton of variables and things go wrong. If one part of the process isn't quite right, it's ama how quickly problems can snowball, sometimes undetected. It's why warranties exist. F250, you say waiting 8 months to buy a brand new product is unacceptable, and that's fine, I know there's plenty more people out there that share that view. There's also plenty of people out there that don't necessarily care, or those like me who aren't willing to take that risk. Just know that right or wrong, like it or not, there is a risk and again, that is why warranties exist I'm witnessing first hand how complicated a new product launch is here at MAP. Granted, the new Focus launch isn't nearly as complicated as the new F-150. That being said, there still hasn't been a day where I haven't seen a group of engineers wandering around and making adjustments since MY2015 started production back in December. The more complicated the product being produced, the harder it is to get everything working right. A car is a lot harder to produce than say, a lawnmower. Edited February 21, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 It's easy to say something is unacceptable but these problems are seldom simple and when you have to make a business decision where the only 2 options are bad (ship with misaligned bumpers and fix them later) and worse (stop or slow down production) it's a no-win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) sorry guys, got a question. I thought Ford was hell bent on a batch and hold for QC purposes. Our first F-150s have been ripe with misaligned body panels ( and sadly some have bordered on inexcusable ) I though process's had been put in place to alleviate potential issues such as these. We have several with blatantly misaligned front bumpers that cannot be adjusted without the ok from Ford. Seems they are aware, but have yet to green light the fix...are there line problems?....sort of explains why they are so slow in coming if Ford is aware of the issues?.... I feel your pain this is same problem they had with the 2012 focus, Volume over quality I guess. Edited February 21, 2015 by Biker16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) It's easy to say something is unacceptable but these problems are seldom simple and when you have to make a business decision where the only 2 options are bad (ship with misaligned bumpers and fix them later) and worse (stop or slow down production) it's a no-win situation. Is this what they teach in business schools now a days? No wonder the quality is so piss poor on American vehicles. This is exactly why they are loosing market share to the Japanese and German car companies. Just push the crap out the door. And those aren't the only 2 options. Fix it right the first time is the best option. I would rather wait a few extra weeks, or months to get my vehicle if that is what it takes to get it it right. Instead I get a vehicle I paid a lot of money for and not be right and just piss me off. That is why customers are turning to foreign vehicles, plain and simple. Don't believe me? Just go ask a Toyota, Honda, MB or BMW owner why they bought one over a Ford or GM. Edited February 21, 2015 by coupe3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 A little bit of perspective here, up until the start of February Ford had built just over 45,000 versions of the new F150. so are these panel alignment and bumper fitment issues wide spread or limited to a small run of vehicles? That's the point here we just don't know how many of the total trucks built have these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 A little bit of perspective here, up until the start of February Ford had built just over 45,000 versions of the new F150. so are these panel alignment and bumper fitment issues wide spread or limited to a small run of vehicles? That's the point here we just don't know how many of the total trucks built have these issues. I haven't noticed it on ones I've seen around here - including the one I looked around in the showroom (before this thread, so I didn't look specifically at the bumper). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Of course you should prevent it in the first place. That requires root cause analysis and irreversible corrective actions. But that's after the initial problem so it doesn't happen again. It doesn't help you fix the current problem. If the fix was simple it would have already been done. Worst case is the customer brings it back for realignment once ford figures out the right fix and it's fine. It's not ideal and it may alienate a few buyers but that is probably better than shutting down the plant for two weeks and losing a guaranteed 30k units. The Japanese brands aren't that much better - they're just more adept at hiding and fixing issues quietly. Btw - which Japanese plant produces vehicles at the same rate and volume as F150? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Excellent point - I think this is only a small percentage of trucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 So tell me why are the American car manufactures loosing market share to foreign companies? If it's nor quality then what is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 So tell me why are the American car manufactures loosing market share to foreign companies? If it's nor quality then what is it? "are the American car manufactures (sic) loosing (sic) market share" Interesting question, are the American manufacturers losing market share? Too bad you didn't include some proof with your statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 GM had the biggest market share in 2008 followed closely by Ford. One company went bankrupt and the other was close. Today both are making several billion dollars in profit annually. Market share without profit is meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Don't believe me? Just go ask a Toyota, Honda, MB or BMW owner why they bought one over a Ford or GM. I'll say that Ford and GM are building some very nice quality vehicles right now. As for Japanese or German quality, they have their issues as well. The perception of quality is still there but when you start reading owner reviews, you see a lot that somehow doesn't make the big picture. Some of it is quite eye opening. It will take many more years to battle that perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 GM had the biggest market share in 2008 followed closely by Ford. One company went bankrupt and the other was close. Today both are making several billion dollars in profit annually. Market share without profit is meaningless. What happens after the easy money has been made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Top 10 by profit....... http://www.mbaskool.com/fun-corner/top-brand-lists/9828-top-10-automobile-companies-in-the-world-2014.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 What happens after the easy money has been made? Not sure I'd call it easy. But once you get your bread and butter lineup and fixed costs under control then you go after the fringe products with lower ROI. Like ford seems to be doing now with more performance products and new territory for Lincoln. It doesn't happen overnight. Toyota has been doing it for decades. Ford didn't really start in earnest until 2007. It will take another decade to round out the lineups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Fuzzymoomoo. Lawnmowers... lawnmowers, really? Building pickup trucks is definitely more complex than building lawnmowers. I'm in SE Virginia we build complicated machines here to...every American nuclear aircraft carrier has been built here. Each carrier has 2 nuclear reactors and displaces over 100,000 tons so it takes a while to pop one out. Trucks are built in a climate controlled plant not out on the waterfront. If you drop a tool or part you pick it up, in a shipyard it could fall 70 feet and kill someone. The old timers in the yard would put a boot up your ass if you screwed up...I do mean literally. You think Ford management is difficult? How would you like to answer to the government. Anyway, nobody expects Ford to stop the line for one crooked bumper but from an outsider point of view why not set aside trucks with issues and have them resolved before they are shipped. If the problem is consistant then stop and make corrections so they don't build thousands of problems. Otherwise what's the point of having QC inspectors, are they there to just keep score? Finally, authorize dealers to fix the issues ASAP. Edited February 21, 2015 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The fact that they aren't fixing them at the plant or allowing dealers to fix them should tell you that it's not an easy solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I mean - why else would Ford not allow dealers to fix them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I mean - why else would Ford not allow dealers to fix them? Warranty cost maybe. Didn't Ford have high warranty cost last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Fuzzymoomoo. Lawnmowers... lawnmowers, really? Building pickup trucks is definitely more complex than building lawnmowers. I'm in SE Virginia we build complicated machines here to...every American nuclear aircraft carrier has been built here. Each carrier has 2 nuclear reactors and displaces over 100,000 tons so it takes a while to pop one out. Trucks are built in a climate controlled plant not out on the waterfront. If you drop a tool or part you pick it up, in a shipyard it could fall 70 feet and kill someone. The old timers in the yard would put a boot up your ass if you screwed up...I do mean literally. You think Ford management is difficult? How would you like to answer to the government. Anyway, nobody expects Ford to stop the line for one crooked bumper but from an outsider point of view why not set aside trucks with issues and have them resolved before they are shipped. If the problem is consistant then stop and make corrections so they don't build thousands of problems. Otherwise what's the point of having QC inspectors, are they there to just keep score? Finally, authorize dealers to fix the issues ASAP. You missed my point. Many people are assuming that all assembly lines are created equal, they aren't. A lawnmower was the first example I could think of And yes, a few people suggested shutting the plant down to figure out what's going on. Edited February 21, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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