fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Here's a little insight on how much money is lost on one lost production day At max capacity, DTP makes about 75 trucks per hour, that's 1.25 every minute, or one every 45 seconds. That's a total of 803 over a 10.7 hour shift, for at total of 1606 PER DAY! Now, assuming an ATP of $35,218, that's $56,560,108 in lost revenue per day if they don't run at all. So do you really think they would shut an entire plant down while they figure out a bumper alignment issue? I don't think so. Edited February 21, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Warranty cost maybe. Didn't Ford have high warranty cost last year? They're not saying don't ever fix them - just not to fix them yet. Ford fixes panel alignment issues under warranty all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 They're not saying don't ever fix them - just not to fix them yet. Ford fixes panel alignment issues under warranty all the time. If I had to guess I'd say Ford is rolling the dice on this. Dealer gets 5 new trucks in. 1 needs bumper or other panel adjustment. Dealer asked for authorization. Ford says not yet. Why? Because truck is not sold yet, no customer so no customer complaint. Ford does not trust dealer. Ford thinks dealer may be trying to get paid on something a customer might not complain about. Ford thinks sell truck and then only if customer complains we might authorize then. Sound plausible Dean? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I can't believe you said that. Why not? That's what this boils down to. Money. Ford could hire tens of thousands of people to hand assemble the F150, in which case they would cost significantly more than they do now. Or they could build the F150s very very slowly, requiring much more machinery to build them, in which case they would cost significantly more than they cost now. Both approaches would work, if people were willing to pay much higher prices for the F150. They're not. Instead, they do what they're doing now: Build these vehicles as quickly as possible, using as much automation as possible, because their customers are not willing to pay for slower assembly or more hands-on assembly. ---- And I'm so very sorry that my failure to jump into "instant outrage" mode offends you. I guess the way I look at it, any fool can be angry and anyone at all can say things without thinking about them, and it doesn't take a great deal of thought to stomp your feet and say stuff like, "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY LET THIS HAPPEN." That's just simplistic, immature, knee-jerk, brain-dead, useless, pointless grandstanding. It assumes that the world is made up of simple problems and easy answers, and that calling something "inexcusable" is a valuable contribution to a discussion. Edited February 21, 2015 by RichardJensen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Really, it's a bumper for crying out loud. If they can't get that on a vehicle straight by now something is really wrong. A bumper that goes on every car and truck made, and they can't get it straight? There is no excuse for it NONE! I suppose the blowing out spark plugs in the 5.4 engines was okay too. And the breaking of spark plugs when changing them was okay too. Stuff like this shouldn't happen it's not like this is the first time they built engines and trucks. Edited February 21, 2015 by coupe3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 You missed my point. Many people are assuming that all assembly lines are created equal, they aren't. A lawnmower was the first example I could think of And yes, a few people suggested shutting the plant down to figure out what's going on. they eventually had to relaunch the 2012 focus because of quality issues. after the summer shut down in 2011 they re-ramped production up to find out what the fuck was going on. Ford will never beat toyota or even GM in quality of efficiency unless they stop taking short cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 There is no excuse for it NONE! what an insightful observation on the complexity of modern life! This is the world you wanted, Coupe. Better learn how to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnV Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 You people are acting like this is a ford exclusive problem. It isn't. Every manufacturer, no matter what the product is, has issues at the start of production. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Ford will never beat toyota or even GM in quality of efficiency unless they stop taking short cuts. Yes. Because GM's launch of the 2014 Silverado went off with NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER: http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/28/autos/most-recalled-vehicle/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F250 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Why not? That's what this boils down to. Money. Ford could hire tens of thousands of people to hand assemble the F150, in which case they would cost significantly more than they do now. Or they could build the F150s very very slowly, requiring much more machinery to build them, in which case they would cost significantly more than they cost now. Both approaches would work, if people were willing to pay much higher prices for the F150. They're not. Instead, they do what they're doing now: Build these vehicles as quickly as possible, using as much automation as possible, because their customers are not willing to pay for slower assembly or more hands-on assembly. ---- And I'm so very sorry that my failure to jump into "instant outrage" mode offends you. I guess the way I look at it, any fool can be angry and anyone at all can say things without thinking about them, and it doesn't take a great deal of thought to stomp your feet and say stuff like, "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY LET THIS HAPPEN." That's just simplistic, immature, knee-jerk, brain-dead, useless, pointless grandstanding. It assumes that the world is made up of simple problems and easy answers, and that calling something "inexcusable" is a valuable contribution to a discussion. Yea, you'd never engage in "immature knee jerk grandstanding" The good news is my 2006 F150 which I bought new was delivered with properly aligned body panels and still looks great today. Apparently this level of fit and finish is a lost art. Oh well that's progress. Since you have the answers Richard what should Deanh tell his customer? The customer wants a straight truck, Ford has not authorized adjustment before delivery. The customer may walk out. To save the deal does the dealership fix the thing knowing afterwards they won't get reimbursed from Ford? Edited February 21, 2015 by F250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 what an insightful observation on the complexity of modern life! This is the world you wanted, Coupe. Better learn how to deal with it. Then tell me what is so hard about getting a bumper on straight with all this nice equipment they have to do it with? Crap all you need is good eye sight and a freaking level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) they eventually had to relaunch the 2012 focus because of quality issues. after the summer shut down in 2011 they re-ramped production up to find out what the fuck was going on. Ford will never beat toyota or even GM in quality of efficiency unless they stop taking short cuts. That's not surprising, going from producing full size SUVs (expedition/Navigator) to compact cars has to be equal or greater of a challenge as going from steel to aluminum construction. I can't speak to what went on here at MAP back then, it was before my time here. Btw, who said they're taking shortcuts? Inspection might be a little more lax pending massive safety hazards, but as long as it can be fixed at the dealer level, they're probably letting more stuff leave the plant than they normally would. Edited February 21, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yea, you'd never engage in "immature knee jerk grandstanding" The good news is my 2006 F150 which I bought new was delivered with properly aligned body panels and still looks great today. Apparently this level of fit and finish is a lost art. Oh well that's progress. Since you have the answers Richard what should Deanh tell his customer? The customer wants a straight truck, Ford has not authorized adjustment before delivery. The customer may walk out. To save the deal does the dealership fix the thing knowing afterwards they won't get reimbursed from Ford? There's a solution to the problem in your statement. If Ford won't authorize adjustment before delivery, then do it after delivery before the customer has a chance to drive it off the lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Yea, you'd never engage in "pointless knee jerk grandstanding" The good news is my 2006 F150 which I bought new was delivered with properly aligned body panels and still looks great today. Apparently this level of fit and finish is a lost art. Oh well that's progress. Since you have the answers Richard what should Deanh tell his customer? The customer wants a straight truck, Ford has not authorized adjustment before delivery. The customer may walk out. To save the deal does the dealership fix the thing knowing afterwards they won't get reimbursed from Ford? Please find the most recent discussion thread here where my only comments were unsupported rhetoric of the "There's no excuse for this" variety. Your 2006 F150 was also build in the THIRD model year of that run on equipment that had been thoroughly well tuned by that point. Regarding your question, I don't know what Ford's directives to dealers and customers are. For instance, I don't know if Ford has authorized any customer repairs either. And finally, this is such a huge deal that a google search of "2015 Ford F150 bumper alignment" returns no relevant results until THIS thread appears on the third page of search results. So let's not pretend that EVERY F150 is shipping with a misaligned bumper, that a MAJORITY of F150s are shipping with misaligned bumpers or even that a significant MINORITY of bumpers are affected by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Then tell me what is so hard about getting a bumper on straight with all this nice equipment they have to do it with? Crap all you need is good eye sight and a freaking level. How many F150s have you built in one day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 How many F150s have you built in one day? As many as you. But if I was the one putting the bumper on one it damn sure would be on straight. Why? Because I have pride in my work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 How many F150s have you built in one day? I'll gaurentee it's not 803. In fact, I'll gaurentee he's never been on an assembly line before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Then tell me what is so hard about getting a bumper on straight with all this nice equipment they have to do it with? Crap all you need is good eye sight and a freaking level. What's hard about it? It's an incredibly complicated piece of machinery that is performing properly on an overwhelming majority of its operations. Since you have a degree in mechanical engineering and decades of experience with mechanized assembly, why don't you tell me why it should be 'easy' to determine why this machine which performs nominally most of the time, fails on a certain limited number of tasks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 As many as you. But if I was the one putting the bumper on one it damn sure would be on straight. Why? Because I have pride in my work! Oh! OH! It's the lazy UAW worker who isn't putting the bumper on straight!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Well, I'm glad we've solved that. Fire all the employees at DTP that don't have "pride in their work" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Working on an assembly line is unlike any other work you could do. It takes time to adjust to the speed needed to do a job every 45 seconds. Try it some time, there's a reason many new hires walk off the line on their first day, it's a LOT harder than you would think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I guess I was wrong. Some problems do have incredibly easy solutions. We'll find all the employees that don't have "pride in work", which, you know is easy to tell because people that don't have "pride in work" all have horns and tails and cloven hooves instead of feet, and we'll fire all of them, and replace them with good solid upstanding people who have "pride in work" and Ford will never ever have any problems with quality ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 How do you know they weren't straight when they left the factory and shifted in transit? That would be a much harder problem to figure out and correct, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I'll gaurentee it's not 803. In fact, I'll gaurentee he's never been on an assembly line before Nope, never on an assembly line. Ding ding we have a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Or, maybe the guy on the assembly line is responsible only for attaching the bumper to pre-drilled mounts on the frame and one of the machines at the body/frame marriage point fastens the bumper to the fenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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