fordtech1 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I don't disagree that a service interval plus accessible drain and fill ports are needed. I'm just voicing what I have seen in repairs. Also, all Ford on demand 4x4 systems apply clutches Everytime you accelerate from a stop. Not always 100 percent, but some Everytime. FYI Some of the PTUs have coolant hoses to try and cool it down. If you don't believe me that tire circumstances don't effect on demand systems, take a older explorer and get tires with over 3/4 in difference front to rear and take it for a spin. It shudders at 45mph. The module is trying to maintain wheel speed at all 4 corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 If the fluid hasn't exceeded the temp threshold changing it does nothing. A temp sensor that alerts the driver when it goes over temp would allow the bad fluid to be changed immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroplex Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) I don't disagree that a service interval plus accessible drain and fill ports are needed. I'm just voicing what I have seen in repairs. Also, all Ford on demand 4x4 systems apply clutches Everytime you accelerate from a stop. Not always 100 percent, but some Everytime. FYI Some of the PTUs have coolant hoses to try and cool it down. If you don't believe me that tire circumstances don't effect on demand systems, take a older explorer and get tires with over 3/4 in difference front to rear and take it for a spin. It shudders at 45mph. The module is trying to maintain wheel speed at all 4 corners. The clutches are by the RDU, not the PTU. And yes I do see the rear wheels getting power in varying degrees at all times, but it seems to be a different case than the torque on demand 4x4 transfer cases on the trucks. The PTU with coolant hoses are found on the police vehicles, performance package, and hot climate vehicles... but supposedly the police vehicle PTU are still failing at 30k miles? The Fusion and Escape seem to use the same type of transfer case that is different from the D3 PTU units, and it has a proper drain plug and fill plug. Still uses 75W-140 though. Edited September 6, 2016 by metroplex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 I realize the clutches are in the rear diff. Axle wind up affects the ptu. It's not that far off from torque on demand. Still uses a duty cycle clutch to keep wheel speed in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT90SC Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Tire circumference difference ABSOLUTELY will kill a PTU fast. The PTU IS the weak link and it is exacerbated by difference in tires. Rotate EVERY oil change. Replace 4 when it comes time. We put plenty of PTU's in the Escape and Fusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroplex Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Wow, I rotate my tires every oil change and the PTU oil was still toast at 20k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Wow, I rotate my tires every oil change and the PTU oil was still toast at 20k miles. Nobody said it was the only cause, just a cause. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Are there any such issue with the PTU (or what ever it is called) on the F150/Expedition ? I know it is an entirely different design. Does it have its own oil supply and should it be changed more frequently than recommended ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Are there any such issue with the PTU (or what ever it is called) on the F150/Expedition ? I know it is an entirely different design. Does it have its own oil supply and should it be changed more frequently than recommended ?The transfer case in the F150/Expedition doesn't have any common issues I have seen. It's more robust and has more fluid in it. Normal service interval should be fine unless you use it in extreme cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Sounds like a job for Amsoil Gear Oil with Lubeguard Gear Oil additive - not all gear oil is created equal! http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/gear-lube/severe-gear-75w-140/ http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-269/LUBEGARD+Gear+Fluid+Supplement I have been using Amsoil/Lubeguard in all my vehicles for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 This looks simple enough - If Ford Dealer service won't do it for you, find an independent. Or find the guys in your city that are servicing the PI's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 That video is fine for PIs with a drain plug but the process is much different for PTUs with no drain plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroplex Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Kev-Mo: How does the Lubegard and Amsoil fare in the Ford PTU's? I've been trying to find after action reports of those who have changed the PTU oil with something like Amsoil or Redline to find out how those oils lasted after 20k miles. I also used some Lubegard Gear supplement with Redline 75W-140 in my PTU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Hmmm my wife's Escape's PTU hasn't blow up....yet with a 150K on it :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Hmmm my wife's Escape's PTU hasn't blow up....yet with a 150K on it :p Now you've done it... I didn't want to say anything about our Flex with 103k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) Kev-Mo: How does the Lubegard and Amsoil fare in the Ford PTU's? I've been trying to find after action reports of those who have changed the PTU oil with something like Amsoil or Redline to find out how those oils lasted after 20k miles. I also used some Lubegard Gear supplement with Redline 75W-140 in my PTU. I don't own the current generation of Ford Explorer - I have a prior generation "08 Explorer, and owned a '98 Explorer before that. I tow a small RV in the Rocky Mountains. I always use(d) Amsiol and Lubeguard combination in my 5R55 Transmissions and never experienced a failure - Remember that 5R55's were notorious for failure due to overheated trans fluid. A local independent recommended Amsoil/Lubeguard to me years ago - for added protection against overheating. I have the appropriate Lubeguard product in every case that has gears in all my vehicles, except the engine oil (I use Mobil1). I just think that some things are worth the price and Amsoil is one of them. I find the Lubeguard story very interesting - It was engineered to replace whale oil that was outlawed for automotive use in 1972 (a good thing, for the most part) and it is not that expensive. Works for me! Edited September 8, 2016 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I just think that some things are worth the price and Amsoil is one of them. I find the Lubeguard story very interesting - It was engineered to replace whale oil that was outlawed for automotive use in 1972 (a good thing, for the most part) and it is not that expensive. Works for me! My dad told me a story about the 1970 Pontiac Ventura they used to have (this was our pre-Ford days) and he mentioned whaleoil in the rear end of the car...I was like WTF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) That video is fine for PIs with a drain plug but the process is much different for PTUs with no drain plug. There is another YouTube where a mechanic (who appears to be quite competent) is adding a drain plug on an Edge. Literally drilling and tapping-then using a standard brass plug. If the vehicle is out of warranty - why not? Seems to solve the issue. To quote Fordtech1 (who I greatly admire on this forum) "I don't disagree that a service interval plus accessible drain and fill ports are needed." Edited September 8, 2016 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtech1 Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I've replaced some at 20k miles and at 125k miles and seen well over 150 with original ptu. It's all over the board. That's why I say there isn't an exact pattern like with most failures with mass produced products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (edited) My dad told me a story about the 1970 Pontiac Ventura they used to have (this was our pre-Ford days) and he mentioned whaleoil in the rear end of the car...I was like WTF? An old crusty Ford guy from the '60's told me he came home smelling like fish every night from work! (I grew up in Mahwah NJ, Anyone remember the Mahwah Assembly Plant?) NASA gets special dispensation to use whale oil in deep space vehicles due to the fact they will never be serviced and have to perform in the harshest temps. (According to: The History Channel - The Story of Us TV series) When General Patton drove the 3rd army across Europe in one of the worst winters on record - all those Studebaker Trucks, Ford Jeeps, and Sherman Tanks were lubed with whale oil! Amazing reliability in the worst conditions. History documents the outcome of that event. This is from the Lubeguard website: Whale oil and its derivatives were used as additives in virtually all automotive lubricants. The products were so effective that vehicles’ fluids were generally never changed, and systems like the transmission lasted the life of the car. Some 30 million pounds of sperm whale oil were used every year in lubricants alone. To supply the demand, hundreds of thousands of whales were harvested bringing that species to the brink of extinction. In 1972, the Endangered Species Act outlawed the killing of whales and the use of materials derived from those animals. For years, in engine oils, the automotive industry relied on other animal based products such as tallow or lard. For complex systems such as transmissions, these substitutes proved to be inadequate, leading to poor overall drive train performance, premature drive train failure and failure due to heat. For instance, automatic transmission failures went from less than a million units in 1972 to over eight million units a year by 1975, due to the loss of sperm whale oil additives. According to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association of Ventura, Calif., today, there are over 11 million automatic transmission failures per year (and nearly nine out of ten) are caused by the degradation of automatic transmission fluid due to heat. Heat promotes the oxidation of transmission fluid, and that compromises its performance and accelerates wear on the internal components of automatic transmissions. http://www.lubegard.com/LXE.aspx Take it for what it is worth. It works for me. Edited September 8, 2016 by Kev-Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucelinc Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 As I posted earlier, there is a huge variation between vehicles in the level of reliability and issues with these PTUs. I also think some who remove the old lube and find it to be black or say that it stinks jump to an incorrect conclusion that it is no longer doing its job or that their PTU is failing. Gear lube turns black and has an odor. That is the nature of the stuff whether it is in a differential, manual gearbox, transfer case, or PTU. Obviously it should not have turned to sludge or be full of metal filings but used gear lube is pretty nasty stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metroplex Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 I know gear lube turns black and has that nasty odor (resembles onions to me) but usually after 100k+ miles on a rear differential. But the gear lube that came out of my PTU at 20k miles looked worse with a lot of metal filings and particles in the gear lube, completely black in color and extremely thick compared to fresh 75W-140. The smell was about the same for gear oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 (I grew up in Mahwah NJ, Anyone remember the Mahwah Assembly Plant?) My old man worked at Edison, so yeah I've heard of it...never been there...heard some seriously screwed up stories from that place... As I posted earlier, there is a huge variation between vehicles in the level of reliability and issues with these PTUs. I also think some who remove the old lube and find it to be black or say that it stinks jump to an incorrect conclusion that it is no longer doing its job or that their PTU is failing. Gear lube turns black and has an odor. That is the nature of the stuff whether it is in a differential, manual gearbox, transfer case, or PTU. Obviously it should not have turned to sludge or be full of metal filings but used gear lube is pretty nasty stuff. When I was in the Army, I had to change out the gear oil on Humvee's during services...that stuff stunk to high heaven...hated working with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPF Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Anyone have a good link regarding PTU lube service on one of these without a drain plug? I'm going to flush the trans on our Edge soon and I'd like to to this at the same time. I'm assuming that ours is missing the drain plug and I'd rather not drill/tap the PTU at this time to add one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Lots of info including videos over at fordedgeforum.com . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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