The new Bronco/Ranger/MAP thread

[jpd80]

I'm still kind of thinking of a "Commercial C" theory: Sort of a mini Transit that's unibody, but with frame rails that can be used to accommodate various cab and bed sizes, as well as a tougher underpinning for a Bronco. Bronco/Ranger/Transit Connect/hybrid whatsis/Escape (maybe) on C3 and C2 or C3 derived "Commercial C"

Let's take that a little step further, what if Ford created a new "mini Transit" with ladder frame (and RWD?)

to cover the current Transit Connect, a new "Ranger" or Courier" and "Bronco". SUV.

 

With the right balance of parts and pricing, I think you could see a great mix of commercial vehicles and retail hero like Bronco.

The fun part about this is imagining how Ford can group these seeminly different vehicle under one platform envelope.

It's possible with the right motivation and perhaps there's a wider international market for such vehicles too..

Edited September 11, 2015 by jpd80

[probowler]

The insane amount of media coverage probably doesn't hurt the Bronco's chances of coming back.... it's great to see so many actual legit news outlets talking about the Bronco again.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Let's take that a little step further, what if Ford created a new "mini Transit" with ladder frame (and RWD?)

to cover the current Transit Connect, a new "Ranger" or Courier" and "Bronco". SUV.

 

With the right balance of parts and pricing, I think you could see a great mix of commercial vehicles and retail hero like Bronco.

The fun part about this is imagining how Ford can group these seeminly different vehicle under one platform envelope.

It's possible with the right motivation and perhaps there's a wider international market for such vehicles too..

That does make a lot of sense. I think seeing the TC go rwd would be a step forward. The commercial light truck/van market is neither used to nor trusts fwd. Plus it makes a lot more sense to put the cargo over the drive axle. Those new fiat Ram vans are going to be trouble as soon as somebody loads one up in the back and tries to drive up an icy/snowy hill.

[rmc523]

Hmm. What about the Transit Custom? Doesn't it slot in between Transit and Transit Connect as a midsize van? Is it RWD capable or FWD?

 

Either way, what if we saw something based off that platform?

[akirby]

That does make a lot of sense. I think seeing the TC go rwd would be a step forward. The commercial light truck/van market is neither used to nor trusts fwd. Plus it makes a lot more sense to put the cargo over the drive axle. Those new fiat Ram vans are going to be trouble as soon as somebody loads one up in the back and tries to drive up an icy/snowy hill.

 

When has the commercial light truck/van market had a FWD option prior to TC? You can't embrace what you can't buy. And I think TC sales are healthy enough to say they are embracing it.

[Sevensecondsuv]

Yeah, probably not a big deal in that size. By the same token though, the market should happily embrace a rwd TC.

 

Given the class they're trying to compete in, I'd be worried about my fwd product if I was Ram/Fiat.

[akirby]

I'm having a hard time figuring out why a florist, plumber, electrician, dry cleaner, etc. would care whether it's FWD or RWD.

[fordmantpw]

You lose some of the great features of the TC by going to RWD, namely load floor height and center of gravity. Plus some highway fuel economy due to the need to sit higher. I think the florists, plumbers, electricians, dry cleaners, etc. are embracing the FWD TC just fine.

[RichardJensen]

Ford also has FWD engineering all done & paid for on these smaller vehicles. Doesn't make sense, IMO, to engineer a tightly confined RWD arrangement just for one factory's output.

[bzcat]

Hmm. What about the Transit Custom? Doesn't it slot in between Transit and Transit Connect as a midsize van? Is it RWD capable or FWD?

 

Either way, what if we saw something based off that platform?

 

Transit Custom is FWD only. Although it is the same platform as the Transit. If you make it RWD, it will need the long nose from the big Transit to fit longitude engine... so you end up with a SWB Transit that we already have.

[rmc523]

 

Transit Custom is FWD only. Although it is the same platform as the Transit. If you make it RWD, it will need the long nose from the big Transit to fit longitude engine... so you end up with a SWB Transit that we already have.

 

Ah ok. I don't know the size difference between the Custom and Transit, that's why I was asking.

[jpd80]

Ford also has FWD engineering all done & paid for on these smaller vehicles. Doesn't make sense, IMO, to engineer a tightly confined RWD arrangement just for one factory's output.

That would underscore the issue here, Ford NA cannot be expected to carry costs for unique products when global products already exit.

The only time that gets over ruled is when a local variation has a distinct advantage in the market.

 

In our haste to fill a plant with potential products buyers may support, sometimes the obvious is overlooked.

that existing vehicle build processes allow seemingly different vehicles to be built down the same lines.

So perhaps MAP becomes a plant producing multiple products, the build mix is able to be adjusted to

follow changes in buying patterns swinging between vans and trucks?

Edited September 11, 2015 by jpd80

[SoonerLS]

I'm having a hard time figuring out why a florist, plumber, electrician, dry cleaner, etc. would care whether it's FWD or RWD.

If a TC satisfies them, they probably don't care, but most of the plumbers and electricians I see are driving E-Series cutaways with duallies. Their vans would look pretty silly with duallies up front...

Edited September 11, 2015 by SoonerLS

[jpd80]

If a TC satisfies them, they probably don't care, but most of the plumbers and electricians I see are driving E-Series cutaways with duallies. Their vans would look pretty silly with duallies up front...

The dual wheels are not for traction, they're for load carrying, something the little TC can never match...

[J-150]

I'm having a hard time figuring out why a florist, plumber, electrician, dry cleaner, etc. would care whether it's FWD or RWD.

Not to sound like an ass, but mixing florists with plumbers shows you clearly do not understand the commercial truck market in North America.

 

If you don't understand why an electrician needs an E350 with a very large diesel, then you never will. We discussed capacities and longevity countless times.

 

Fact is, FWD, undersized gas engines and light duty platforms with heavier springs are insufficient for many trades people.

 

That's why heavy duty pickups with 6x12 cargo trailers are slowly replacing the need for a heavy duty panel van.

 

I've seen 3/4 vans need front end work every 20k while blowing the 5.4 engine after 50.

Edited September 11, 2015 by J-150

[SoonerLS]

The dual wheels are not for traction, they're for load carrying, something the little TC can never match...

I know. It was a joke...

[akirby]

Not to sound like an ass, but mixing florists with plumbers shows you clearly do not understand the commercial truck market in North America.

 

If you don't understand why an electrician needs an E350 with a very large diesel, then you never will. We discussed capacities and longevity countless times.

 

Fact is, FWD, undersized gas engines and light duty platforms with heavier springs are insufficient for many trades people.

 

That's why heavy duty pickups with 6x12 cargo trailers are slowly replacing the need for a heavy duty panel van.

 

I've seen 3/4 vans need front end work every 20k while blowing the 5.4 engine after 50.

 

You missed the point. I never said electricians or plumbers ONLY need a TC. What I said was that those trades people that are already buying a Transit Connect don't really care whether it's FWD or RWD. There are plenty of them who opt for full sized vans or pickup based vehicles with dualies and AWD.

 

And I have seen plumbers and electricians in TCs. If all you're doing is residential repairs and small jobs they work just fine. Commercial and new construction is something entirely different.

[RichardJensen]

That would underscore the issue here, Ford NA cannot be expected to carry costs for unique products when global products already exit.

 

Well, and that's the other aspect of "One Ford" where, I think bzcat? was saying that only the T6/T7 would be compatible w/One Ford--

 

--I would note that this vehicle would be more comparable w/the Ford Courier/Bantam/Ute small truck. A -smaller-than-Ranger truck based on the TC could be sold in several global markets.

[sullynd]

My last project was a $70 million building. The electricians, when driving company vehicles, were, for the most part, driving TCs.

[jpd80]

My last project was a $70 million building. The electricians, when driving company vehicles, were, for the most part, driving TCs.

The TC is slowly building traction with trades and small business, not saying it's for everyone

but great to see a wider selection of commercial vans finding homes with new buyers.

[J-150]

The TC is slowly building traction with trades and small business, not saying it's for everyone

but great to see a wider selection of commercial vans finding homes with new buyers.

So is the FWD Promaster and the lighter duty Transit.

 

But that is part of a shift in how real truck users approach work vehicles.

 

Ford, GM and FCA have all seen the trend away from vans into pickups with trailers. Why? Because the electrician or plumber can still take his family out on weekends in a crew cab.

 

But I still stand by my first hand experience that only a heavy duty van is appropriate for heavy duty van requirements.

 

Where you see an electrician in a TC, he is not carrying a load that couldn't be thrown in the trunk of a car.

[Bob Rosadini]

No doubt- a TC can work for some electrical contractors or plumbers. By and large though, IMO most would opt for the heavier vehicle. Now is a guy that goes around servicing computers, PLC's, office equipment the same as an electrical contractor serving building trades same guy? IMO no. And I noted Sully's comment that most electricians he saw on a big job were driving TC's I say that is the exception. Unless the vehicle is paid transportation for a guy, most contractors want ability to carry a reasonable amount of tools and stock.

 

and I'm sure there are plenty of cases of mis-application going on where the low cost of the TC is leading buyers to underspec. Those pigeons WILL come home to roost. Case in point-and I may have posted this comment a while ago but a guy pulls in next to me at a convenience store and I see by the signage on the truck he services soda/beer dispensing equipment. I ask him how he likes his TC- he doesn't- the reason...."no room for everything I need and you take your life in your hands pulling up an on ramp". I say-"oh-what did this replace?" Answer- "E-350"! Case closed

 

And as a kid, I had an uncle who was a plumbing contractor. He bought 7 Econoline pick ups when they came out in 61(?). 3 on the column, 144 cu inch six. they had a short existence.

[fuzzymoomoo]

The floor cleaning company I used to work for starting replacing their e-series vans with a Transit Connects, and they work quite well for their purposes. They can fit a scrubber, propane buffer, spare propane tank, and several mops and still have enough space to fold up the ramp. The van I had while I was there was a 2011 TC and I loved it. Thought it rode much better while loaded. Even without cruise control it was comfortable to drive for long distances.

 

They're still buying (used) and using e-series vans for their day crews because the TC can't fit an electric buffer with the other 2 machines.

Edited September 12, 2015 by fuzzymoomoo

[akirby]

why is it so hard to accept that SOME tradespeople like fwd TCs? Good grief.....

[blazerdude20]

No doubt- a TC can work for some electrical contractors or plumbers. By and large though, IMO most would opt for the heavier vehicle. Now is a guy that goes around servicing computers, PLC's, office equipment the same as an electrical contractor serving building trades same guy? IMO no. And I noted Sully's comment that most electricians he saw on a big job were driving TC's I say that is the exception. Unless the vehicle is paid transportation for a guy, most contractors want ability to carry a reasonable amount of tools and stock.

 

and I'm sure there are plenty of cases of mis-application going on where the low cost of the TC is leading buyers to underspec. Those pigeons WILL come home to roost. Case in point-and I may have posted this comment a while ago but a guy pulls in next to me at a convenience store and I see by the signage on the truck he services soda/beer dispensing equipment. I ask him how he likes his TC- he doesn't- the reason...."no room for everything I need and you take your life in your hands pulling up an on ramp". I say-"oh-what did this replace?" Answer- "E-350"! Case closed

 

And as a kid, I had an uncle who was a plumbing contractor. He bought 7 Econoline pick ups when they came out in 61(?). 3 on the column, 144 cu inch six. they had a short existence.

In my primary job I work on construction sites most days. On larger jobs you see a lot of TC for electricians and plumbers. Plenty of room for tools but not materials. On larger jobs the contractors have larger box vans that deliver materials and jobox's. Very few electricians or plumbers bring their materials to the job site on large commercial projects. Cheaper to pay a shop helper $10 an hour to get materials and needed items.