atomcat68 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I'm thinking this was probably the source of the feud between Piech and Winkerton. They both knew this reveal was coming and they probably wanted to handle it differently knowing the destruction it would cause. These two events being so close is too much of a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Just read that VW may not be the only manufacturer that was gaming the system. The European “Transit and Environment” group is suggesting Opel, BMW and Mercedes may have used similar software to pass air quality tests. You can read more on the Automotive News website. Confirmed, at least for one maker... BMW X3 tested over legal limit (courtesy of C&D) We don't get that particular engine, but it's pretty widespread over in Europe as far as the models that use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/vw-tdi-diesel-morality-1.3238590 Here's one perspective of the effect this has on the fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Confirmed, at least for one maker... BMW X3 tested over legal limit (courtesy of C&D) We don't get that particular engine, but it's pretty widespread over in Europe as far as the models that use it. Actually, the ICCT report that Autoblid is using as a source did not identify which SUV it tested. The report labeled the 4 vehicles they tested "A, B, C, D". Autobild assumed one of them is BMW X3 20d based on the fact it has 2.0 liter engine. It could be an Audi or VW for example. ICCT also tested CRAB-compliant X5 35d and it didn't find any deviation. Edited September 24, 2015 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 CNBC just reported that Autobild just retracted its story that contained allegation of emission tempering against BMW. So take it for what it is and draw your own conclusion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerM Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Apparently, the cars were "smart" enough to monitor wheels moving but steering wheel not moving. The OBD port had nothing to do with it. The lack of steering movement was the trigger for the computer to kick up the emissions controls. http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/09/the-study-that-brought-down-volkswagen/407149/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Fri 15:14 clock - 2.8 million VW cars manipulated in Germany - from the manipulation of exhaust gas measurements on diesel cars at Volkswagen 2.8 million vehicles in Germany are affected. The said German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt (CSU) on Friday in the German Bundestag. According to current knowledge 1,6- and 2,0-liter diesel are affected. Whether that also applies to 1.2-liter engines, is still unclear. "At least to date, we believe that can indicate possible manipulation here," Dobrindt said.More'm determined just in talks with VW. The Minister further said that the Federal Motor Vehicle Office urge VW, "binding to declare whether the company sees itself in a position to resolve the avowed technical manipulation". "We expect a binding timetable as to when there is a technical solution, and by when they can be implemented." The Consumer interests should be fully taken into account. http://www.motor-talk.de/news/2-8-millionen-pkw-in-deutschland-betroffen-t5446647.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Fri 15:14 clock - 2.8 million VW cars manipulated in Germany - from the manipulation of exhaust gas measurements on diesel cars at Volkswagen 2.8 million vehicles in Germany are affected. The said German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt (CSU) on Friday in the German Bundestag. According to current knowledge 1,6- and 2,0-liter diesel are affected. Whether that also applies to 1.2-liter engines, is still unclear. "At least to date, we believe that can indicate possible manipulation here," Dobrindt said.More'm determined just in talks with VW. The Minister further said that the Federal Motor Vehicle Office urge VW, "binding to declare whether the company sees itself in a position to resolve the avowed technical manipulation". "We expect a binding timetable as to when there is a technical solution, and by when they can be implemented." The Consumer interests should be fully taken into account. http://www.motor-talk.de/news/2-8-millionen-pkw-in-deutschland-betroffen-t5446647.html Holy F%$k! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Holy F%$k! Yeah, I didn't think it was just a U.S./NA problem....so much for trying to push responsibility onto the VWNA people (which I never believed anyway). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Double post Edited September 25, 2015 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Fri 20:09 clock - Switzerland stops sale of VW vehicles with souped exhaust values - Switzerland engages in the exhaust affair by: the first country temporarily prohibiting the sale of affected vehicles of VW brands. In a communication adopted on Friday night from the precautionary withdrawal of approval is talk. A corresponding order was being prepared. Details would be announced on Monday, wrote the Federal Roads Authority (ASTRA). Not affected by the available already on the market vehicles set. The ASTRA expects that in Switzerland around 180,000 vehicles could be affected. There are models of Audi, Seat, Skoda and Volkswagen model years 2009-2014 (EXCLUDING versions Euro5), which are equipped with diesel engines in versions 1.2 TDI, 1.6 TDI and 2.0 TDI. Euro6 motors of current production will not be affected. http://www.motor-talk.de/news/aufsichtsrat-ernennt-neuen-vw-chef-t5446647.html#!page=6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 This is really putting a hurt on VW. I wonder just where it is going to end up for them. It is getting worse day by day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) This is really putting a hurt on VW. I wonder just where it is going to end up for them. It is getting worse day by day. Lutz suggested that VW and others in Europe have a culture of "make this work or you're fired" and if so, then no wonder we are in this mess, a mess that isn't confined to VW group. It sucks that ultimately, we, the consumers have to pay more for our vehicles due to manufacturer incompetence and lack of self management. It is false economy to skimp and pay lip service to regulations and quality. Most of the problem stems from people under pressure generating "work around" fixes that are not approved at the highest levels. It would probably scare us all to see how much gets covered up and dismissed internally. Edited September 26, 2015 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I've talked to a couple people now who did not realize this is only an issue with their diesel vehicles. That's not good for VW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Sun 10:38 clock - Report: use of illegal software was known at VW long - responsible at Volkswagen have according to a report of the "Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung" (FAS) had from the use of illegal software in exhaust emission tests already aware years ago. Already in 2011, a staff member had pointed out that the use of software that detects an exhaust gas testing and according downregulated engine performance, an "infringement" could represent, the newspaper reported with reference to a report of the Internal Audit of Volkswagen. Meanwhile, also an explosive document had appeared, the newspaper reports. The supplier Bosch had warned as early as 2007 in a letter to the VW group against illegal use of its technology for exhaust aftertreatment. Bosch have the software delivered to VW, however, and for testing purposes only was not intended for normal driving. After BamS information of suppliers stated time with Wolfsburg that the proposed use is illegal. Sun 16:45 clock - Belgium to stop selling the affected cars - also from abroad comes pressure: In Belgium, the sale of cars in question with the engine EA 189 is stopped, Italy announced its own exhaust gas measurements. Monday 12:53 clock - Worldwide 2.1 million Audis of exhaust scandal affected - The exhaust scandal at Volkswagen meets expected the subsidiary Audi. As a spokesperson for the luxury brand said on Monday, 2.1 million models worldwide are affected. The engine in question was installed in the versions with 1.6 and 2.0 liters of displacement as a turbodiesel in the types A1, A3, A4 and A6, the TT sports car and the SUV Q3 and Q5. German regulators said Volkswagen needs to provide a solution for some 2.8 million cars in Germany by Oct. 7 or risk them being pulled off the road. Edited September 28, 2015 by MKII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papilgee4evaeva Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 At this point, this situation is going to have to improve a thousandfold before we can call it "bad." They're going to have to investigate SEAT and Skoda too, right? Or have they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomcat68 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 At this point, this situation is going to have to improve a thousandfold before we can call it "bad." They're going to have to investigate SEAT and Skoda too, right? Or have they? The Spanish government has already taken action against Seat. I have heard nothing about Skoda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKII Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) A Skoda spokesman confirmed BILD that the question engine EA 189 was in the cars of the Fabia, Roomster, Octavia and Superb from 2009 to-2013 http://www.autobild.de/artikel/vw-abgasskandal-aktuelle-news-und-hintergruende---update-6077591.html • Worldwide affected 2.1 million Audi, approximately 577,000 Audi in Germany • Audi A1, A3, A4, A6, TT, Q3, Q5 with 1.6 and 2.0 TDI (Euro 5) • 5 million vehicles from the core VW brand manipulated - including golf, Passat, Tiguan • 1.2 million Skoda affected • VW announces an action plan within "a few weeks" to • KBA urges binding timetable to 7 October 2015 • Media: VW managers have known for years Communication • Prosecutor Braunschweig is investigating Winterkorn • Official: Porsche CEO Müller becomes new head of VW • Transport Ministry: Nationwide 2.8 million VW affected • manipulation at 1.6 and 2.0 TDI, possibly 1.2 TDI • Including light commercial vehicles (VW Transporter) • Switzerland and Belgium stop new registrations manipulated VW • EU and USA announce stricter emission tests• Worldwide it's about eleven million cars, including Audi, Skoda and Seat• 482,000 cars in the United States, class actions run• German show VW to even VW filed charges• VW Chef Winterkorn did not know about the manipulations• VW is preparing itself with billion-resetting • Federal Government wants new CO2 emission tests from 2017 Edited September 28, 2015 by MKII 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kun Liu Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Will this knock VW out of US? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Keeps getting better and better! Report: Bosch Warned VW About Diesel Emissions Cheating in 2007 Edited September 28, 2015 by silvrsvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREMiERdrum Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 This really does just keep getting worse and worse. If it can be proven they were warned 8 years ago and kept right on going anyway? My goodness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Will this knock VW out of US? One can only hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Keeps getting better and better! Report: Bosch Warned VW About Diesel Emissions Cheating in 2007 They saved $355 per vehicle................ For about eight years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Keeps getting better and better! Report: Bosch Warned VW About Diesel Emissions Cheating in 2007 Thanks for the link, a few interesting paragraphs reveal what probably happened... First, there's this admission from Bosch that the software was given to VW for test purposes only According to the report, Bosch claims to have supplied diesel engine-management software to Volkswagen under the impression that it would be used only in vehicle testing. That software, which was able to activate emissions-control devices when a testing environment was detected and deactivate them during normal driving, somehow ended up in production vehicles. According to Bild am Sonntag, Bosch wrote to Volkswagen in 2007 warning the automaker that using this software in publicly sold vehicles was illegal. And then we see this other piece of the puzzle In addition to the 2007 warning from Bosch, it seems that one of Volkswagen’s own engineers tried to blow the whistle on the illegal emissions-cheating program in 2011, as German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported in its Sunday edition. Automotive News reports that the crisis began when then–VW brand chief Wolfgang Bernhard and engineer Rudolf Krebs began developing a new diesel engine for the U.S. market in 2005. Bernhard and Krebs realized that an AdBlue urea exhaust-treatment system would be needed to meet U.S. emissions standards, at an estimated cost of $335 per vehicle. Reportedly, VW finance heads determined this cost was too high, as a company-wide cost-cutting exercise was then underway. so, someone senior in VW vetoed the adblue system for the diesel and the two engineers championing it were transferred. I think there may be a good case for indicting senior management as being recklessly negligent by eception and misleading conduct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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