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Worse deal coming?


caustic

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The fear mongering is absolutely APPALLING on here. In 2009, Boob King brought us a contract proposal to match what GM and FCA had after bankruptcy, saying we would not be able to strike, and unlimited tier 2. We at ford told him to shove it up his kiester and two days later, Ford announced a HUGE profit for the quarter.

 

Ford is making money hand over fist today, and record profits with half the workforce than they had in the best previous days. Ford is not about to allow a strike to stop production of the F-150 and Mustang at a time when both plants are running flat out and unable to keep up with demand., let alone the stuff made at Chicago. Ford is more intelligent than that.

 

As for Jimmy "Settles-for-less" He is a foolish moron that basically came out and told people that they were uneducated and un-informed. He didn't try to sell this piece of trash we call a contract, he instead tried to force it down our throats. This shows us that he could give a damn less about any one of us. What he should have done is point out the benefits, and actually answer the questions that folks have asked at informational meetings instead of just telling folks "that's just how it is"

 

He should have taken the opportunity to hold those info meetings in such a way and at such times that people could attend and ask the questions, but instead, he pushed us aside like yesterdays news, confident that the dumb ass autoworkers didn't know good from bad. At Livonia, they scheduled two info meetings. One at 6:30 AM for two hours, and one at 1:30 pm for 2 hours. Day shift is working from 6:30 am till 2:30 pm, Afternoons starts at 2:30 till 10:30 and nights is from 10:30 till 6:30 am. WHO can go to those meetings? Day shift surely could not attend either meeting. So the selling job was beyond piss poor.

 

I may not be the most educated person, but I am intelligent enough to read the language, and see multiple problems with this agreement, including the ability to change things in health areas without seeking a vote (Living agreement language) Also the ability to use Temp with no expectation of hiring, and to be used any day, and any time they wanted. This will lead to a permanent third tier in assembly made up of TEMPS that never reach anywhere near our pay. And to add insult, create yet another tier of workers at three plants.

 

I know we asked that tiers be eliminated, that was the biggest issue heard all the past years, so instead of listening to the membership, the leadership decided that they were smarter, and knew better that we did, what as needed in our facilities. The division we have as a group is caused in large part by these tiers, and needs to STOP. And the only whay for that to happen, is for this Union, to once more become what we set out to be, one unite4d group of dedicated workers, with EQUAL pay and Benefits for each and every one of us. Anything less, is a NO vote for any TRUE unionist.

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The fear mongering is absolutely APPALLING on here. In 2009, Boob King brought us a contract proposal to match what GM and FCA had after bankruptcy, saying we would not be able to strike, and unlimited tier 2. We at ford told him to shove it up his kiester and two days later, Ford announced a HUGE profit for the quarter.

 

Ford is making money hand over fist today, and record profits with half the workforce than they had in the best previous days. Ford is not about to allow a strike to stop production of the F-150 and Mustang at a time when both plants are running flat out and unable to keep up with demand., let alone the stuff made at Chicago. Ford is more intelligent than that.

 

As for Jimmy "Settles-for-less" He is a foolish moron that basically came out and told people that they were uneducated and un-informed. He didn't try to sell this piece of trash we call a contract, he instead tried to force it down our throats. This shows us that he could give a damn less about any one of us. What he should have done is point out the benefits, and actually answer the questions that folks have asked at informational meetings instead of just telling folks "that's just how it is"

 

He should have taken the opportunity to hold those info meetings in such a way and at such times that people could attend and ask the questions, but instead, he pushed us aside like yesterdays news, confident that the dumb ass autoworkers didn't know good from bad. At Livonia, they scheduled two info meetings. One at 6:30 AM for two hours, and one at 1:30 pm for 2 hours. Day shift is working from 6:30 am till 2:30 pm, Afternoons starts at 2:30 till 10:30 and nights is from 10:30 till 6:30 am. WHO can go to those meetings? Day shift surely could not attend either meeting. So the selling job was beyond piss poor.

 

I may not be the most educated person, but I am intelligent enough to read the language, and see multiple problems with this agreement, including the ability to change things in health areas without seeking a vote (Living agreement language) Also the ability to use Temp with no expectation of hiring, and to be used any day, and any time they wanted. This will lead to a permanent third tier in assembly made up of TEMPS that never reach anywhere near our pay. And to add insult, create yet another tier of workers at three plants.

 

I know we asked that tiers be eliminated, that was the biggest issue heard all the past years, so instead of listening to the membership, the leadership decided that they were smarter, and knew better that we did, what as needed in our facilities. The division we have as a group is caused in large part by these tiers, and needs to STOP. And the only whay for that to happen, is for this Union, to once more become what we set out to be, one unite4d group of dedicated workers, with EQUAL pay and Benefits for each and every one of us. Anything less, is a NO vote for any TRUE unionist.

 

Outstanding post.

 

Jimmy held one meeting at CAP, realized he wasn`t standing in front of those less than intelligent members that can`t comprehend or are like a bunch of children that he protray`s to the media and went home sick.

 

Our leadership did then as they are doing now, the only thing they know how to do, (without good results) drive division amongst the ranks. I never wanted to be put into the division these less than leaders have put into place but, I have no other way to say this, Do any other "OLDER" members remember the "rip sawing" the leaders allowed the ranks to be put through in the recent past? The only difference betweew then and now is, the company was the spearhead then for "us against us". Now the very organization that we pay to represent us is the spearhead putting "us angainst us". The leadership came to the lagacy members and stated the two tiers was only till the profitability was returned, they lied. The leadership came to legacy members and stated where would be a cap, they lied. The health care CO-OP.... lye...The leadership stated this was the best FCA could get, they LIED.

 

People, where the fuck do they get off putting US AGAINST US... so many dam times before we wake the fuck up?

 

Now if Tier2 or JSiete47 find it "insulting" that an old long hair (and many other legacy members) twice voted NO (for just one of his resaons) because of watching "young" members get fucked by the 89 day shit and the TPT, STPT and LTS shit then to be fucked again by getting paid half what legacy members were getting paid to do the same dam labor and now going to take 8 fricken years to reach full scale.... I guess you can take it as an insult. Because we here at CAP stood together Legacy, Tier 2, Trades, Clean Up, Parts Sorters and yes the young and the old stood together as what a .....UNION.

 

We stood together to make the leaders know we will not sell out the young or the old for gains for some or the profits of a company. CAP is done helping the company and done with this so called leadership. Over two to one voted to end the second class pay scale. A fuckin GAIN.

 

(JSiete47, young blood, you way to tuff for the old long hair)

Edited by Decker
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I know we asked that tiers be eliminated, that was the biggest issue heard all the past years, so instead of listening to the membership, the leadership decided that they were smarter, and knew better that we did, what as needed in our facilities. The division we have as a group is caused in large part by these tiers, and needs to STOP. And the only whay for that to happen, is for this Union, to once more become what we set out to be, one unite4d group of dedicated workers, with EQUAL pay and Benefits for each and every one of us. Anything less, is a NO vote for any TRUE unionist.

 

Did you ever think that FORD SAID NO to eliminating Tiers? Are you so dumb to believe that the UAW never asked for Tiers to be eliminated? Why does everyone think that the UAW came up with this deal on their own with no input from Ford? I heard Ford wants to give us 50.00 an hour and 10 weeks vacation, only thing stoping them is the UAW.

Edited by 182
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Did you ever think that FORD SAID NO to eliminating Tiers? Are you so dumb to believe that the UAW never asked for Tiers to be eliminated? Why does everyone think that the UAW came up with this deal on their own with no input from Ford? I heard Ford wants to give us 50.00 an hour and 10 weeks vacation, only thing stoping them is the UAW.

The IUAW agreed with Ford and brough it to who...? Really 182, if all the toes are under the same covers.... as they whispered from the bed... it`s the best we could get.

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Of course they did. Thats WHAT BARGAINING IS. The UAW wants things and Ford wants things. Ford wants Tier 2, the UAW wants wages and health care. They will move some but wont give them up completely. You dumb asses slamming the UAW need to get a clue. The UAW learned from Big Steel, Railroads, Caterpillar, and other unions that stood their ground, lost and either closed plants or went under. But it seems like the workers havent learned a damn thing.

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Of course they did. Thats WHAT BARGAINING IS. The UAW wants things and Ford wants things. Ford wants Tier 2, the UAW wants wages and health care. They will move some but wont give them up completely. You dumb asses slamming the UAW need to get a clue. The UAW learned from Big Steel, Railroads, Caterpillar, and other unions that stood their ground, lost and either closed plants or went under. But it seems like the workers havent learned a damn thing.

 

Yes, you are right 182 your uncle Jimmy is right we cant comprehend and are just like children..... isnt Cat UAW? with a bullshit 6 year contract? wait a minute is that you Jimmy?

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Yes, you are right 182 your uncle Jimmy is right we cant comprehend and are just like children..... isnt Cat UAW? with a bullshit 6 year contract? wait a minute is that you Jimmy?

 

 

yep because they fucked themselves and went out on strike. Struck and got a WORSE deal after being out months. Yep, bullshit contract and NOTHING THEY COULD DO ABOUT IT.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/business/striking-caterpillar-workers-ratify-contract-offer.html?_r=0

Edited by 182
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There is not one instance in recent history where a strike has benefited the workers!! This was a good contract! We could have went into negotiations in four more years and got even more! You had great job security, great health insurance, raises, profit sharing and bonuses. Job security was one of the biggest part of this contract!! What good is a 4 year path to full pay if you get an ILO notice due to lack of work. Ford does not have to give MAP a new product! It would cheaper for Ford to make the Ranger in Mexico.

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yep because they fucked themselves and went out on strike. Struck and got a WORSE deal after being out months. Yep, bullshit contract and NOTHING THEY COULD DO ABOUT IT.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/business/striking-caterpillar-workers-ratify-contract-offer.html?_r=0

 

Cat's products do not move at the same rate as Ford's does.

 

If we stopped F150, Superduty, amd Escape production for 15 weeks Ford would notice a lot quicker than Cat.

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Great reply. Except AAM did the same thing.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/18/business/striking-caterpillar-workers-ratify-contract-offer.html?_r=0

 

If there's a winner in this dispute, it is American Axle. While the supplier didn't every penny of the wage cut it wanted from the union, it got a big chunk of it. In addition, American Axle is said to have doubled production at its Mexico plant in short order and kept supplying some GM plants. The fact that it could do so demonstrates to the union that the company could move even more work to Mexico, close plants in the U.S. and eliminate more union jobs.

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Cat's products do not move at the same rate as Ford's does.

 

If we stopped F150, Superduty, amd Escape production for 15 weeks Ford would notice a lot quicker than Cat.

 

 

You would notice too, with around 20,000 gone from your wallet.

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Notice when you post FACTS the dumbass people stop posting.

 

182, can this dumb ass make a post or ask if you read the article?

 

Did you happen to notice the missing three letters? Did you read about the 6 year wage freeze?

 

UAW are missing letters and the UAW was gone how many years with a wage freeze?

 

Now I`m pretty sure you`ll think to yourself "what a dumb ass" its all the same a union is a union and a contract is a contract....

 

Ford has doubled Cat`s profit so far this year for the Cat profit of 2012. Fords market place is as fluid as a day to day consumer based market can be. Cat`s market is based on both national and international consumers that at best will make orders that are for one or two units and most likely never place another order. Also CAT can see months if not years to elapse before return from there investment.

 

So just my dumb ass opinion, you are comparing apples and orangutans not to mention the International Association of Machinists to the other monkeys, IUAW.

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182, can this dumb ass make a post or ask if you read the article?

 

Did you happen to notice the missing three letters? Did you read about the 6 year wage freeze?

 

UAW are missing letters and the UAW was gone how many years with a wage freeze?

 

Now I`m pretty sure you`ll think to yourself "what a dumb ass" its all the same a union is a union and a contract is a contract....

 

Ford has doubled Cat`s profit so far this year for the Cat profit of 2012. Fords market place is as fluid as a day to day consumer based market can be. Cat`s market is based on both national and international consumers that at best will make orders that are for one or two units and most likely never place another order. Also CAT can see months if not years to elapse before return from there investment.

 

So just my dumb ass opinion, you are comparing apples and orangutans not to mention the International Association of Machinists to the other monkeys, IUAW.

http://labornotes.org/2008/07/what-went-wrong-american-axle-strike

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"But instead of keeping the pressure on AAM through such actions union tops wavered the UAW international had called for a large community rally in mid April in downtown Detroit. But after Dauch requested that they call it off, officials dutifully agreed to indefinitely postpone the action.

Many rank and filers saw the cancellation as a betrayal, and the olive branch to Dauch had no effect, as negotiations drag on for weeks longer."


This last article you referenced really points out when the possible beginnings of the international UAW leadership started to really fail the membership.

In the article the author actually references the "union tops" as being one of the major issues for the failure. I believe that the author also made that reference to "union tops" as a politically correct way of saying that the union leadership on the international level had failed its membership at AAM".

With these references 182 I believe we are most likely on the same page when it comes to one fact, that is the blatant failure of the international union to fulfill their leadership position to the membership. As this last article also states with its date of 2008 the miss leadership of the union is documented from that point forward. We see this type of action being taken on multiple contracts with the UAW and the big three over the last 10 to 12 years.

With your bringing up and referencing these articles once again I will agree with you the UAW leadership or as the article states the union tops have once again failed the membership with this last tentative agreement we just received.

With the points you've made and the references to this article would it be safe to say that you agree that our union tops don't have the abilities to negotiate anything more for the union membership and that we should just agree with the documented poor leadership along with the poor results from this take it or leave it negotiations?

 

Would it be safe to say you don`t have a problem with this wavering by the union tops back in 2008 and to this present wavering today?

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