Nissan Titan XD Commercial - Shoulders of Giants

[bdegrand]

All corporations' desire is to acquire market share. Ford is trying to take it from GM.....GM from Chrysler.....Chrysler from Nissan.....Nissan from Toyota.....etc.

 

You make it sound like Nissan is a malevolent foreign invader. They're not. They are a foreign investor, because they believe by making a truck here (in the States) they can make a profit. If they take the dollars back to Japan (which they don't, since you can't buy anything there with them), so what? They traded trucks for slips of paper of diminishing value.

 

 

 

The Japanese government's monetary policy doesn't affect the profitability of the Titan in any way. Nissan isn't exporting trucks from Japan to here, nor are they exporting from here to there. Ford isn't doing it, either. There's no market for a big truck there, nor here for a truck that costs a fortune to ship across an ocean.

 

If anything, the Titan represents an Americanized-Nissan doing business in America, as an American corporation, by hiring Americans to produce a product for sale to other Americans.

 

Do you really believe they are stealing something from you or others? If so, what?

Try reading some facts...rather than rhetoric...http://epi.org/78360

[RangerM]

Try reading some facts...rather than rhetoric...http://epi.org/78360

I read this link. Please educate me.

 

What is the pertinent part of this article that in any way applies to the Titan pickup? They're making the truck in America.

[fordmantpw]

I've debated the two of you a number of times. It's like Democrats vs Republicans. Let me mention a few things. Yen fluctuation is big-time advantage for them.(120 vs dollar today) All Japanese car companies are subsidized by their government , they don't have to deal with unions like Ford suffers with, they don't have huge pensions retirees to subsidize, they buy all their steel from the Nippon Steel Arrangements.Honda flew in their Nippon Steel when Marysville Ohio was built in the 80s to keep their cars rolling....and until they could set up their plans for total internal foreign owned matrix. Of course they created jobs since Ford was forced to close plants because of the continuous influx of Honda's, Toyota's etc...People like teachers, government workers and most others not affected by this invasion didn't care and now it continues to manifest itself to the point Ford is shrinking to an all-time low in market share. Chrysler is foreign owned and the Big 4 is down to 2. Yet, the response is a"so what, they are creating jobs"....yep....jobs that are foreign owned. The camel's nose is not just in the tent...it's whole body is in...and its kicking the Ford out. We (Ford) are doing the best we can but with attitudes like your response about creating jobs....do you really think at the rate they are selling cars....Ford Will still be a strong competitor in the next decade without a fair playing field.? It's all about perception. E.g....Fusion is as good as or better than Camry, Accord,Altima....but it can't match their sales.I ask my teacher friends who have your view..."hey guys, if Japan and Korea started importing teachers and workers to take over all your government jobs...would you care?" I mention Korea now since they see the opportunity.No need for unions, free plants financed by willing states, getting to hand pick your work force.....it's as you say a "win win! http://epi.org/78360

 

All of that really has nothing to do with your original statement about the tax incentives for the plants.

 

But, to your point, how many jobs does that Nissan Titan bring to the US? I would wager to guess more than if those 50k (or 100k) were sold as F150s. The reason? Nissan has to design, engineer, and test their truck. That is done almost entirely in the US, since it is sold here. Americans are employed to do that job. If there were no Titan, those jobs would be lost as Ford would only build more, not design another truck. So some of the profits go overseas. I get that you (and many others) don't like that, but the bottom line is that having that truck here helps more Americans with jobs than not having it here. If that bothers you, buy some stock in Nissan, so you can reap some of the rewards.

 

Bottom line, I feel it is more important to buy stuff BUILT in America than buying stuff from an American-owned company. The important people are those on the bottom few rungs designing and building things, and that's what buying BUILT in America gets you.

[akirby]

Do you know why Fusion can't match the others? It hasn't been on the market for 30 years like camcords. Camry and Accord didn't start out that high - they've built up sales over generations of repeat buyers. Fusion needs at least another generation or two before they can even think about those kinds of numbers.

[Kev-Mo]

Bottom line, I feel it is more important to buy stuff BUILT in America than buying stuff from an American-owned company. The important people are those on the bottom few rungs designing and building things, and that's what buying BUILT in America gets you.

 

Strongly disagree - I would never consider a foreign car/truck assembled here as 'American' anymore than the Japanese would consider any Ford Japanese. This is up to each individual to believe what they wish. Your personal liberty to decide where your money goes is the most important right you have as an American.

 

Please consider this: If all the anecdotal arguments in the prior few posts (American factories American jobs....) were working, why do we have a 7% of GDP trade deficit that is killing our economy like a slow growing cancer?

 

Profits definitely flow directly back to the homeland. Foreign owned corporations are 'supposed' (many loopholes) to pay taxes on profits earned in the USA, but it is commonly known that their homeland governments (especially with Asian Corporations) give them tax breaks to off-set this, while American Corporations are required to pay taxes to the USA in addition to the country they make the profit in. Other countries, especially the Asians are masters at exploiting these advantages to use imported engineering and parts etc. This is huge dis-advantage to the home team, and they end up having to use Asian owned suppliers (i.e. Takata) which results in even more US$ flowing back to Asia. This results in more foreign investment in USA assets, more profits flowing back to Asia, and less US taxes paid and the cycle continues on and on...As long as this kind of unfair trade is considered acceptable and routinely practiced, I will not touch a foreign nameplate no matter where the product is assembled. My personal liberty to decide where my money goes is the most important right I have as an American.

 

This is a debate that has raged on and on many times. I believe what i believe and others can believe the way they see it. However, our nation struggles to produce any respectable real GDP growth - even with the FED dumpling a trillion dollars out of thin air into the economy. What we are currently practicing is simply not working. So spin all you want but the rest of the world is beating the crap out of us. Apparently they are doing a lot things right and we are doing a lot of things wrong.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Kev-Mo

[fordmantpw]

 

Your personal liberty to decide where your money goes is the most important right you have as an American.

 

Agreed!

 

 

 

Please consider this: If all the anecdotal arguments in the prior few posts (American factories American jobs....) were working, why do we have a 7% of GDP trade deficit that is killing our economy like a slow growing cancer?

 

I agree 100%! It's not working. There is not enough American factories and American jobs. The reason the trade deficit is killing our economy is because we are importing too much stuff that is not made here. That's my point, things need to be BUILT here. Build all those foreign cars (plus the Fusion and the Ram and the 6.7L PowerStroke), including all their parts, here in the US instead of importing them and you'd see a big difference. The govt. is working to help tax all profits off shore too, but that's a topic for another discussion.

[Mad Hatter]

Dear Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan,

 

America was not built on the shoulders of Japanese trucks. In our free market you are welcome to compete, but please don't pretend you are here to save us from ourselves.

I guess it's how you look at it, but I took it as they tacitly acknowledged their previous model failure and more carefully studied the competition. GJ, Nissan. Still wouldn't want one.

[akirby]

Nobody said the trade imbalance was fair, but that has absolutely nothing to do with whether Nissan, Toyota and Honda create a crapload of American jobs.

[Kev-Mo]

 

What difference does it make who owns the plants? The jobs are created either way which creates more taxpayers for the government and more business for the local businesses which in turn generates more tax revenue. The government gets back more in new taxes than they gave up to get the business.

 

I read that someone did a study of all the tax breaks, gov't spending, entitlement funding etc - our country spends >$3 to gain <$1 of GDP. The practice of giving foreign companies breaks to set-up shop is part of this problem and it is clearly not working.

 

Sorry it was a while back and can't produce a link - but you all know from the seat of your pants that the statement above is probably true.

[jpd80]

I'm currently driving a 2.5 diesel Nissan Navara (Frontier) so it's like a half serve of Titan XD.

 

Apart for the bull of an engine, what customers is this truck aimed at, it seems like a heavy, heavy half ton?

[Mad Hatter]

I'm currently driving a 2.5 diesel Nissan Navara (Frontier) so it's like a half serve of Titan XD.

 

Apart for the bull of an engine, what customers is this truck aimed at, it seems like a heavy, heavy half ton?

This truck's raison d'être is staked entirely on the CTD. That's good enough for some, and Fred Diaz surely knows that from his time at Dodge.

 

Before the CTD, Dodge trucks in Texas were nothing more than government fleet vehicles and the rare choice for quirky people.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Mad Hatter

[akirby]

 

I read that someone did a study of all the tax breaks, gov't spending, entitlement funding etc - our country spends >$3 to gain <$1 of GDP. The practice of giving foreign companies breaks to set-up shop is part of this problem and it is clearly not working.

 

Sorry it was a while back and can't produce a link - but you all know from the seat of your pants that the statement above is probably true.

 

It may not be a net gain to the country as a whole but it sure is a net gain to the communities and states that attract the jobs. And if the government isn't getting back more than they give up in tax breaks then that's just poor planning.

 

I'm not a proponent of corporate welfare, but it's not welfare if you get something in return. But I'm also not a proponent of taxing businesses and overregulating them. You can't force a business to do anything. Make the cost of doing business too high or too burdensome and they'll simply go somewhere else and they'll take well paying jobs with them when they leave. Businesses don't pay taxes anyway - consumers do.

 

The point you're trying to make would be a lot more relevant if Nissan, Toyota and Honda were importing their workers along with all of the parts including dealership employees. But they're not, so therefore they're simply an employer operating in the United States hiring Americans to well paying jobs.

[jpd80]

This truck's raison d'être is staked entirely on the CTD. That's good enough for some, and Fred Diaz surely knows that from his time at Dodge.

 

Before the CTD, Dodge trucks in Texas were nothing more than government fleet vehicles and the rare choice for quirky people.

OK, I did a comparison between the XD Crew cab and a similar F250, I see what Nissan is trying to do now.

It's an extension inot HD trucks, just but it may be enough for Nissan to pick up a few nice sales..

[Kev-Mo]

 

 

 

The point you're trying to make would be a lot more relevant if Nissan, Toyota and Honda were importing their workers along with all of the parts including dealership employees. But they're not, so therefore they're simply an employer operating in the United States hiring Americans to well paying jobs.

 

My point is solid, your perspective is different, so be it. Again - I worked for an American company that went overseas with the sole purpose of taking money from them and bringing it to us. Yes, there was overseas investment but the purpose was NOT to be good guys. Toyota, Honda and Nissan are no different, other than they pretend.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Kev-Mo

[fordmantpw]

 

My point is solid, your perspective is different, so be it. Again - I worked for an American company that went overseas with the sole purpose of taking money from them and bringing it to us. Yes, there was overseas investment but the purpose was NOT to be good guys. Toyota, Honda and Nissan are no different, other than they pretend.

 

Hypothetical situation.

 

Let's say all of the foreign manufacturers suddenly decide to pull out of the US market. They stop making cars here and quit selling them here.

 

What happens? 10's of thousands of people lose jobs.

 

Now, the loss of production has to be made up, so Ford ramps up other plants that aren't at full capacity and start importing vehicles to fill the void. Those just happen to all be over seas.

 

What about those 10's of thousands of workers that lost their job? Are they better off? Who is better off in that scenario? 1) The Ford stockholders 2) The employees at Ford whose bonuses depend on the profit of Ford.

 

Unless you are saying we should rob from Peter to pay Paul, that scenario has cost many many jobs, and has just made the well off better off. But hey, the foreign manufacturers aren't here preying on us anymore are they?

 

How do you think the Mexicans feel about all those Fusions and 6.7L diesel engines being made in Mexico? Do you think they care that some profits are coming to the US? Or do you think those workers are just ecstatic to have well-paying jobs?

[akirby]

 

My point is solid, your perspective is different, so be it. Again - I worked for an American company that went overseas with the sole purpose of taking money from them and bringing it to us. Yes, there was overseas investment but the purpose was NOT to be good guys. Toyota, Honda and Nissan are no different, other than they pretend.

 

Every company wants to take business from other companies regardless of which country they're in. You think Ford doesn't try to take GM customers and vice versa? There are no "good guys" when it comes to business.

 

American jobs are American jobs. It doesn't mean the companies providing the jobs are benevolent - it's obviously financially beneficial to them - but I don't see how that changes anything.