akirby Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Actually I'm with Biker on this. If I was going to buy an EV (and I'm not), I'd pick a Chevy Bolt over the EV Focus any day. I live in a rural area. If we want to go to Traverse City (the biggest town in Michigan's lower peninsula), a 100 mile range wouldn't get us there and back, but a 200 mile range would. Ford has to do better than a 100 mile range. Whether they like it or not, Chevy and Tesla have set the bar at 200 miles. Again you're confusing can't with choose not to. If Ford re-engineered Focus to hold twice the batteries packaged like Bolt, what would it buy them other than PR? Ford doesn't care how many Focus EVs they sell. It's a R&D project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Who removed the word IMMEDIATE from the Automotive News title? It must not be an error because the word IMMEDIATE was removed twice, once in the title of the thread, and the other in posting of the article. Shouldn't the title of the thread be updated to correct the erroneous removal? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Ford doesn't care how many Focus EVs they sell. It's a R&D project. No it is a compliance project - if Ford had its way there would not be an Electric Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Who removed the word IMMEDIATE from the Automotive News title? It must not be an error because the word IMMEDIATE was removed twice, once in the title of the thread, and the other in posting of the article. Shouldn't the title of the thread be updated to correct the erroneous removal? Dammit, Biker16 - that was a troll move. I fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 No it is a compliance project - if Ford had its way there would not be an Electric Focus. It's both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Who removed the word IMMEDIATE from the Automotive News title? Dammit, Biker16 - that was a troll move. I fixed it. Apparently the word "immediate" was not there when the article was first posted to the web (it's missing from the slug in the URL and is currently archived in Google's news database under the old title). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 If that's true then I retract my statement. Mostly....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) The next gen batteries made of Aluminium-Graphite are gonna turn today's batteries into antiques. Half the cost and twice the power density and easy enough to modify existing lines, they will probably arrive at the same time as Ford's first EV. I wonder if today's hybrid and electric Vehicles will be able to accept new era batteries as a repack, that would be great news for today's early adopters and if not, current EVs will become redundant overnight 325,000 lemmings can't be wrong....... Edited April 19, 2016 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 100 miles range with fast charging time is enough for most people. But 200 miles range with not as fast charging time is enough for just about everyone. But keep in mind that Model E is probably a PHEV first and EV second... so Ford is probably optimizing the car as a Volt competitor not a Bolt competitor. I think Kevin Layden probably would like to walk back his statement if he had a chance. He was obviously talking about the 2017 Focus EV, which will have 20% range improvement over the 2016 Focus EV. But things get taken out of context really quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) I'd seriously consider a Focus electric (hatch). But where it would most likely have enough juice for me in the Summer, the Winter would be cutting things close. My round trip is ~70 miles with lots of stop and go and there's no charging station at work. Edited April 19, 2016 by Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'd seriously consider a Focus electric (hatch). But where it would most likely have enough juice for me in the Summer, the Winter would be cutting things close. My round trip is ~70 miles with lots of stop and go and there's no charging station at work. Run an extension cord out the window? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I think it's clear that Ford will focus on whatever is most profitable - and PHEVs would see to fit that bill especially if the batteries make it easier to add to regular vehicles. I expect an EV/plug-in strategy from Ford, not one or two individual vehicles. And one that makes money, not just a PR stunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 @JPD80....Regarding Aluminum Graphite Battery tech.....funny....where will THAT leave tesla?.....seems all their eggs are in one basket right know, and adaptation to different tech doesn't come cheap if it requires MAJOR overhaul and a change of thinking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) Clearly Ford has some interest in a distinct Electric car brand within Ford, which is why we got the C-Max. I'm not sure what the focus of Ford's electrification strategy will be going forward, whether it's company wide integration into existing gas products or a full-on electric brand like "Model E". The later has proven extremely difficult for Ford to do and only Prius and Tesla standout in this regard (and more may be coming from Apple and Google). It's also a fickle part of the business. In any case I worry that Ford sees electrification as an iterative process for it's core business and not just an important cultural and customer shift which is where emerging electrified and high-tech brands come in and take over. As a company that generally has a smart vision for future, I like to think it knows where to be and when to be there. Making electric cars certainly simplifies the car making process and further commoditizes the automotible so branding and lifestyle becomes critical and more democratized. Edited April 19, 2016 by BORG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 If i were the commuter that Ford is going after, and not a person looking for an EV as my only vehicle I'd be looking hard at a Spark EV. 6,000 less than the focus for only 18 miles less in range. Spark EV 82 mile range $24,000 Bolt EV 200 mile range $37,500 Tesla Model 3 215 mile range $35,000 Focus EV 100 mile range $30,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 @Borg....Im not so sure....sales numbers are , at least right now, pitiful, as are profits, which tells me demand just isn't there.....will it increase?....most likely....but right now I think its a mistake to go all in in what I see as a fragile niche segment.Theres a distinct reason there's only a few "players" in the market....right now the business case is sketchy to say the least...let Tesla and the like be the guinea pigs... the billions Ford has just invested in the tech and development ( the E ) tells me they are ready willing and able if its deemed time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 The next gen batteries made of Aluminium-Graphite are gonna turn today's batteries into antiques. Half the cost and twice the power density and easy enough to modify existing lines, they will probably arrive at the same time as Ford's first EV. yeah, next gen batteries have been around the corner for the last 2 decades, there is no Aluminium-Graphite bateriy introduction right now, it took almost 10 years for lithium-Ion to move from portable electronics to cars, why would these new batteries be any different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Biker....ever checked the back seat of the Spark?......and I thought you were the one griping about the Focus's range....ok, Im putting on a Talking heads CD, Sync....., play song "Making flippy floppy...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 I am skeptical that you can develop and single 200 mile EV, from a PHEV and HEV vehicle. Its akin to the joint strike fighter, which everything looks the same but only 35% of the parts are shared. If they can my hats off to them, but the PHEV and HEV and the EV markets are not the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 like Ive said...Im not sold on EVs 300 miles or 200 miles...that's still range limitation and for anyone that actually travels would require the additional investment of another vehicle....why pay 30k for an EV and another 30k for a travel vehicle when one could shell out 30 k for a plug in and answer BOTH questions............EV buyers want to waste their money thinking they are saving the planet ( god forbid they see what happens to the landscape where the minerals for batteries are mined by diesel belching caterpillars ) then so be it, but I hope they get splinters hugging that tree they THINK they are saving..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Biker....ever checked the back seat of the Spark?......and I thought you were the one griping about the Focus's range....ok, Im putting on a Talking heads CD, Sync....., play song "Making flippy floppy... you would be surrprized how close the Focus EV and the Spark are in interio space. http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/specifications/capacities/ http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle/specs/trims.html\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) Biker...untrue...Ive driven both, Spark is the size of a Fiesta.............in REAL life theres a significant difference......the Spark I had was a rental with the CVT...HILARIOUS little car.....and theres no question theres a reason its cheaper than a Focus in ANY iteration. Also....capacities on the Spark aren't broken down to leg/ hip, and headroom...cubic capacities mean NADA. Edited April 19, 2016 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 (edited) If i were the commuter that Ford is going after, and not a person looking for an EV as my only vehicle I'd be looking hard at a Spark EV. 6,000 less than the focus for only 18 miles less in range. Spark EV 82 mile range $24,000 Bolt EV 200 mile range $37,500 Tesla Model 3 215 mile range $35,000 Focus EV 100 mile range $30,000 Focus EV also has heated leather seats, navigation, nice stereo etc. That $6,000 buys you a lot of things that makes the commute more tolerable. The one that really made Focus EV seem inferior is VW eGolf. Similar price, concept, range (80 miles), size, equipment level, but with usable trunk. eGolf is also getting a similar range boost to 100 miles as Focus in 2017. Edited April 19, 2016 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Does Ford still get the tax credit for electric vehicles when purchasing? With the current incentives, the Focus Electric is actually a pretty good deal. For a lease, there's a $10k rebate (which includes the tax credit) which bring the total price of a fully loaded 2016 Focus Electric (I just added leather, everything else is standard) down to $21,435. There's currently a $3,450 rebate when buying. If there's a $7,500 tax credit (not mentioned on the Ford site), that again brings the price down to $21.4k Now, if I can get a fully loaded Focus Electric for less then a mid-level gasser Focus, I will seriously consider trading my '14 Focus in on one (I would like to keep a Focus, but getting the extra options and not a DCT could sway me to get a new electric). The site says the MPGe is 111 city / 99 highway. I can make that work with my commute if it is accurate, though I'd want to talk to some owners about what real-life mileage is during summer when the AC is on and Winter when battery performance degrades. I currently go through a tank of gas in my 2.0L once a week. Am I missing something? Edited April 20, 2016 by Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Biker...untrue...Ive driven both, Spark is the size of a Fiesta.............in REAL life theres a significant difference......the Spark I had was a rental with the CVT...HILARIOUS little car.....and theres no question theres a reason its cheaper than a Focus in ANY iteration. Also....capacities on the Spark aren't broken down to leg/ hip, and headroom...cubic capacities mean NADA. Spark EV Base Curb Weight 2866 lbs Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down 23.4 ft³ Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Up 9.6 ft³ Length, Overall 146.50 in Track Width, Front 55.50 in Track Width, Rear 54.80 in 54.80 in Wheelbase 93.50 in Width, Max w/o mirrors 64.00 in Front Head Room 39.40 in Front Hip Room 48.00 in Front Leg Room 42.00 in Front Shoulder Room 50.70 in Passenger Capacity 4 Passenger Volume 86.3 ft³ Second Head Room 37.30 in Second Hip Room 47.50 in Second Leg Room 35.20 in Second Shoulder Room 49.71 in Focus EV Interior Dimensions Sedan Hatch Electric Hatch ST Hatch RS Hatch Head Room - Front (in.) 38.3 38.3 38.3 38.3 38.3 Head Room - Rear (in.) 38 38 38 38 38 Shoulder Room - Front (in.) 55.6 55.6 55.6 55.6 55.6 Shoulder Room - Rear (in.) 52.6 52.6 52.6 52.6 52.6 Hip Room - Front (in.) 53.9 53.9 53.9 53.9 53.9 Hip Room - Rear (in.) 52.8 52.8 52.8 52.8 52.8 Maximum Leg Room - Front (in.) 43.1 43.1 43.1 43.1 43.1 Leg Room - Rear (in.) 33.2 33.2 33.2 33.2 33.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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