akirby Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 And just to be clear - I think there is a small market for those high performance RWD vehicles that Ford and Lincoln can exploit with higher ATPs PROVIDED they can be built on a shared platform with shared drivetrains, etc. and sold globally. And that includes Utilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 I don't take anyone's opinion seriously who drives a 1-series...... That's just me.... To me that's not a person who should drive a BMW, that's a person who should drive a VW, but wants the BMW status amongst their peers...... Do you really think myself, and a few other people seriously are the only ones who associate RWD driving dynamics and LOOKS with prestige, and especially large engines, then you guys are sadly mistaken.... This is a Ford/Lincoln forum.... The people who like Ford/Lincoln are on here..... Not the ones who don't give Lincoln the time of day, because Lincoln's are built up Ford's........ Whether or not you want to believe it, the Lincoln brand is still heavily reliant on Ford product development, they refuse to, and long before any of this recession bs, give Lincoln any real investment..... The 90's even weren't that hot honestly.... The LS was the only "real" new product they released that had no connection to a Ford product..... 100,000 units stinks in 2016, and ever really....... They resort to calling themselves a boutique brand to make up for the fact that not too many look their way, meanwhile there's more Lincoln dealerships than Cadillac...... It just plain sucks..... I don't even care about a stupid Lincstang..... FIX WHAT YOU HAVE! They need a new team or something, because I don't know who's idea it was to keep the split wing grille going, with these refreshes and redesigns.... It's so stupid, it was such a fail that it should have been left in 2012, with a brand new face coming in 2013...... The newest vehicles look good, but they aren't good enough..... Too plain to reach the mass market.... 100,000 units is a far cry from the mass Market. I'm not sure, but I think the 3-series sells triple that if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure.... There is no reason Ford doesn't give a little more toward the brand, even they continue FWD with ecoboost power...... The vehicles are lame Ford's with Lincoln badges and nicer interiors, just nicer in the last 2 years..... I would drive the Continental as daily driver, but I think I'd much rather have the CT6 for its much superior architecture, I'm sure ride, and the interior looks like the best interior in any Cadillac ever...... Oh and it will offer a 4.2TT V8, not as a V-series, but just your good old prestigious land yacht....... I don't know why people make it out to be like RWD and V8's are all about high performance or racing, when back in the old days that's all there was, and old Lincoln's or Cadillac's weren't high performance under any definition...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 To be quite honest, I thought the 1-series was FWD biased, considering what it is...... I really wouldn't know, as I don't even pay any attention to it...... My mom doesn't know the difference, other then the fact she likes the LS's driving dynamics, the MKZ feels more like a boat dragging you around (and looks like one too)...... The MKZ is a much better car overall, but I'd say it would be much much better RWD.... Same for the MKS, if they would've rather had the bigger seller with more profit be FWD....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 You're an enthusiast who thinks all buyers think like you do, when in fact it's exactly the opposite - very few buyers who would actually consider buying a Lincoln care about V8s and RWD. Which Lexus sells the most - the RWD V8 powered GS or the FWD V6 powered ES? The RWD GX and LX or the FWD RX? Why is Caddy having trouble selling the new ATS and CTS - according to your criteria they should be flying off the lots. BMW has switched away from V8s in favor of turbo V6s. Has that hurt their sales or their reputation? There are obvious advantages to RWD platforms - nobody is denying that. The problem is the average luxury car buyer doesn't care about those advantages. They care about styling, power, quietness, features, price and brand prestige. BMW could switch the 5 and 7 series to FWD and still keep 90% of their sales - no problem. Lincoln can soldier on with FWD based AWD vehicles and twin turbo V6s and be just fine. The goal isn't to sell the most vehicles - the goal is to make the most profit. That's why you won't see a dedicated platform one off high performance Lincoln similar to what Caddy did with the CTS originally before they decided to share the platform with other models. It's a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 2, 2016 Author Share Posted May 2, 2016 The ATS and CTS lack premium luxury.... That's their problem.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 LincolnLiver, curious, you talk about your Mom buying vehicles a lot. How old are you? Did you buy your LS new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 (edited) The ATS and CTS lack premium luxury.... That's their problem....Huh? What exactly are they missing? I thought all they needed was RWD and a V8? Edited May 2, 2016 by akirby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Huh? What exactly are they missing? I thought all they needed was RWD and a V8? Now you guys are just being stupid..... Nobody said RWD and V8's make a vehicle luxury, that's just stupid..... If that's the case, then the Mustang is premium luxury..... Lmfao..... What I mean is, instead of being just smaller, they also are not as luxurious.... Too much solids, not enough chrome and wood trim, the center stack with sliders intead of buttons is stupid, the seats aren't as great as even the XTS. I'm thinking going forward, they will "CT6" everything up a bit, like Lincoln will too with the Continental..... I don't know why people aren't buying the Caddies, well that's not fair, as they sell 300,000+ units, but still...... I would buy an ATS, probably will be my next vehicle, CAI, exhaust.... And the CT6 with the 4.2TT V8 and RWD-biased AWD will be our nice Sunday cruiser....... I'm 20, so no, I inherited the LS..... I wouldn't be a luxury buyer up until now.... Let's just say we live comfortably.... Not rich, but comfortably...... As stated previously, we are in the real estate biz...... I actually work part time at the Cadillac dealer, Lincoln wouldn't hire me because I asked the owner when the new RWD Town Car is coming out.... Said they couldn't have me, because they thought I may deter customers.... Dummy's they are...... Anyways, Lincoln should be happy I'm even interested in the brand, as they want younger customers, considering how people in the market make jokes and ask why I even bother with Lincoln anymore. They say that they are rolling coffins..... I don't know, I guess because older people drive them, it's kind of stupid, though true..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Speaking of the ATS and CTSCadillac’s Problem of the Cars It Can’t Sell Read more: Cadillacs Sit on the Lot a Long Time - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/autos/2016/04/29/cadillacs-problem-of-the-cars-it-cant-sell/#ixzz47YBIBFLp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I don't take anyone's opinion seriously who drives a 1-series...... That's just me.... To me that's not a person who should drive a BMW, that's a person who should drive a VW, but wants the BMW status amongst their peers...... Do you really think myself, and a few other people seriously are the only ones who associate RWD driving dynamics and LOOKS with prestige, and especially large engines, then you guys are sadly mistaken.... This is a Ford/Lincoln forum.... The people who like Ford/Lincoln are on here..... Not the ones who don't give Lincoln the time of day, because Lincoln's are built up Ford's........ Whether or not you want to believe it, the Lincoln brand is still heavily reliant on Ford product development, they refuse to, and long before any of this recession bs, give Lincoln any real investment..... The 90's even weren't that hot honestly.... The LS was the only "real" new product they released that had no connection to a Ford product..... 100,000 units stinks in 2016, and ever really....... They resort to calling themselves a boutique brand to make up for the fact that not too many look their way, meanwhile there's more Lincoln dealerships than Cadillac...... It just plain sucks..... I don't even care about a stupid Lincstang..... FIX WHAT YOU HAVE! They need a new team or something, because I don't know who's idea it was to keep the split wing grille going, with these refreshes and redesigns.... It's so stupid, it was such a fail that it should have been left in 2012, with a brand new face coming in 2013...... The newest vehicles look good, but they aren't good enough..... Too plain to reach the mass market.... 100,000 units is a far cry from the mass Market. I'm not sure, but I think the 3-series sells triple that if I remember correctly, but I'm not sure.... There is no reason Ford doesn't give a little more toward the brand, even they continue FWD with ecoboost power...... The vehicles are lame Ford's with Lincoln badges and nicer interiors, just nicer in the last 2 years..... I would drive the Continental as daily driver, but I think I'd much rather have the CT6 for its much superior architecture, I'm sure ride, and the interior looks like the best interior in any Cadillac ever...... Oh and it will offer a 4.2TT V8, not as a V-series, but just your good old prestigious land yacht....... I don't know why people make it out to be like RWD and V8's are all about high performance or racing, when back in the old days that's all there was, and old Lincoln's or Cadillac's weren't high performance under any definition...... Yes, Ford poured money into PAG and neglected Lincoln. Lincoln went on Ford rebadge cruise control during that time, and the brand's image (and sales) dropped. That's why buyers don't consider Lincoln - they have been largely irrelevant for years. Only now are we finally seeing Ford devote resources to the brand. Regarding 100,000 sales. Considering they sold only 82,000 units in 2013, 100,000 is pretty good. And they're on pace for around 120,000 this year, not even calculating for potential bumps from new MKZ and Continental sales. That's an increase of 40,000 units over 3 years. They are "fixing what they have." They're redesigning and refreshing the entire lineup as the product cycles line up. You also don't seem to understand product cycles. Refreshes typically come every 3 years, and redesigns every 6. The split wing will be gone by 2018/2019MY, when the last holdouts - the crossovers (MKC, MKX, and MKT) will be redesigned, refreshed, and dropped, respectively. Furthermore, Ford/Lincoln are currently working on Lincoln's next generation of products as we speak, and I have no doubt they will address many of your complaints. They can't throw lots of money around, wave a magic wand and suddenly a new lineup of cars will be here instantly. Again, you seem to look at the current lineup and think that's it and Lincoln will never get better. Give it time! Cadillac's touted products didn't get here overnight, they've been at it for nearly 2 decades now since they began their efforts. Lincoln is into what, year 2 of a dedicated approach? Yup! They should have everything here already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) I think you guys do not understand how well I DO understand the market, R&D, and product lineup cycles...... As far as the split grille, what I was getting at was, why throw good money after bad, just change the front to something different.... Wow they tweaked the the split wing grille, so instead of angel wings, the MKZ has cat wiskers...... It's like beating a dead horse already, I don't know how many times I have to say it! I know Lincoln has grown and there's steps! I want Lincoln to succeed! If you guys think RWD platforms and more cylinders, more refinement, more tech, more luxury doesn't matter, and the current Lincoln's are so great, why is Lincoln developing RWD vehicles? If no one cares, why bother? Save the money! That's what I can't stand, double talk as usual! Just like our government! Edited May 3, 2016 by LincolnLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I think you guys do not understand how well I DO understand the market, R&D, and product lineup cycles...... As far as the split grille, what I was getting at was, why through money at refreshes, just change the front to something different, wow tweak the the split grille, so instead of angel wings, the MKZ has cat wiskers...... It's like beating a dead horse already, I don't know how many times I have to say it! I know Lincoln has grown and there's steps! I want Lincoln to succeed! If you guys think RWD platforms and more cylinders, more refinement, more tech, more luxury doesn't matter, and the current Lincoln's are so great, why is Lincoln developing RWD vehicles? If no one cares, why bother? Save the money! That's what I can't stand, double talk as usual! Just like our government! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 They need catch up big time.... For a company who made the aluminum truck, they have a pretty good portfolio overall, but a very subpar luxury brand..... Have you guys seen the CT6's architecture? That thing is revolutionary....... Seriously never have seen a Caddy, or any American luxury sedan, or vehicle in general make such leaps in advanced technology...... The Continental is literally a boat..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Now you guys are just being stupid..... Nobody said RWD and V8's make a vehicle luxury, that's just stupid..... If that's the case, then the Mustang is premium luxury..... Lmfao..... What I mean is, instead of being just smaller, they also are not as luxurious.... Too much solids, not enough chrome and wood trim, the center stack with sliders intead of buttons is stupid, the seats aren't as great as even the XTS. I'm thinking going forward, they will "CT6" everything up a bit, like Lincoln will too with the Continental..... I don't know why people aren't buying the Caddies, well that's not fair, as they sell 300,000+ units, but still...... I would buy an ATS, probably will be my next vehicle, CAI, exhaust.... And the CT6 with the 4.2TT V8 and RWD-biased AWD will be our nice Sunday cruiser....... I'm 20, so no, I inherited the LS..... I wouldn't be a luxury buyer up until now.... Let's just say we live comfortably.... Not rich, but comfortably...... As stated previously, we are in the real estate biz...... I actually work part time at the Cadillac dealer, Lincoln wouldn't hire me because I asked the owner when the new RWD Town Car is coming out.... Said they couldn't have me, because they thought I may deter customers.... Dummy's they are...... Anyways, Lincoln should be happy I'm even interested in the brand, as they want younger customers, considering how people in the market make jokes and ask why I even bother with Lincoln anymore. They say that they are rolling coffins..... I don't know, I guess because older people drive them, it's kind of stupid, though true..... Well, every post you make talks about how Lincolns don't have RWD or V8s. The CT6 has sliders and touchless buttons - why is it luxurious? 30-way power seats with massage function? Yeah, those must be terrible. Not fair? The numbers are what they are. While Cadillac may sell more than Lincoln, ATS and CTS sales have consistently dropped since their debuts. Without Escalade and fleet dumping SRX, Caddy's sales wouldn't look nearly as good. Well, it sounds as if you would deter customers with all the negative talk you direct toward the brand and its products. I realize you want the brand to be/do better - we all do - but you have to be realistic and realize it's a marathon, not a sprint; the products will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I think you guys do not understand how well I DO understand the market, R&D, and product lineup cycles...... As far as the split grille, what I was getting at was, why throw good money after bad, just change the front to something different.... Wow they tweaked the the split wing grille, so instead of angel wings, the MKZ has cat wiskers...... It's like beating a dead horse already, I don't know how many times I have to say it! I know Lincoln has grown and there's steps! I want Lincoln to succeed! If you guys think RWD platforms and more cylinders, more refinement, more tech, more luxury doesn't matter, and the current Lincoln's are so great, why is Lincoln developing RWD vehicles? If no one cares, why bother? Save the money! That's what I can't stand, double talk as usual! Just like our government! I don't know why you keep bringing up the split wing as if they're trying another version of it. It IS on the way out - is the split wing on the 2017 MKZ? The Continental? The 2018 Navigator? No. They have changed to something different. RWD and more cylinders does not automatically equal luxury. Again the entire industry is moving away from larger engines, and the "creme of the crop" luxury brands are adding FWD vehicles to their lineups. Not I'm not saying FWD is better overall, but there are applications where FWD works better, and there are applications where RWD works better. Buyers want power and effortless power delivery....most would have no idea if you had them drive a car without telling them what kind of engine it has. Everything you want is coming. Again, nobody has said we wouldn't like "RWD, more refinement, more tech, more luxury." We're merely realistic given Lincoln's current situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Well, as I previously said, I didn't come here to start trouble anyways...... That's not the goal.... I've got better things to do then go on forums to just piss people off. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't in my heart.... The CT6 is much more refined then anything I've seen, I like much more then the German competitors for once, honestly.... Sure, it's got the stupid sliders, but they are much better than the previous iterations. The CUE system has been updated. That interior looks expensive to me, which is what I want when spending that much money...... It also is very comfortable, the rear passengers are spoiled, as you could say the same with the Continental. I really do like the Continental, and hope it does well. Problem is, it's a 2017 MY, so we'd be looking at 2023 MY before they'd totally remodel it, including a RWD platform.... That's a long ways to go..... I would drive the Continental, I think it looks expensive, I think it is expensive, I think it can compete. I think it would be better on not the Fusion platform, CD4.... I think the 3.0 is great, but a better suited Reserve engine, and a 4.0TT V8 option for Reserve and Black Label..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I don't know why you keep bringing up the split wing as if they're trying another version of it. It IS on the way out - is the split wing on the 2017 MKZ? The Continental? The 2018 Navigator? No. They have changed to something different. RWD and more cylinders does not automatically equal luxury. Again the entire industry is moving away from larger engines, and the "creme of the crop" luxury brands are adding FWD vehicles to their lineups. Not I'm not saying FWD is better overall, but there are applications where FWD works better, and there are applications where RWD works better. Buyers want power and effortless power delivery....most would have no idea if you had them drive a car without telling them what kind of engine it has. Everything you want is coming. Again, nobody has said we wouldn't like "RWD, more refinement, more tech, more luxury." We're merely realistic given Lincoln's current situation. What do you call the MKX? The MKC? Both brand new with the new split wing grille iteration..... That's all I'm saying, bringing out new models with the same old face that's tweaked and associated with gussied up Ford's..... The new Continental is on CD4, so is the MKZ.... MKZ is just a refresh, but it has a brand new front fascia (same ugly rear), and an updated interior.... I'd also drive the 2017 MKZ..... The thing is, I hate that short stubby front end look..... You guys have to realize, Lincoln's sales are up, because people see some new looking models, so they're trying them out... Same thing happened to Caddy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 I'm sick and tired of trying to have logical conversations with people who contradict themselves every other post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 Why, because I'd drive the Continental and MKZ for the 2017? I'm not being serious, I'm saying they look good enough that I'd consider buying them..... Like I did still say, I hate the short stubby front end.... I also find the CD4 platform uninspiring. The transverse engine layout everyone knows is poor for weight distribution and central stability. It's only good for the weight over the front wheels..... Even then though, you leave the rear vulnerable to fish tail like hell, as all FWD only vehicles do..... As far as the engine lineup, the MKZ is good enough.... The Continental deserves more.... Like you guys "think", the products will fall into place in some years from now..... Hopefully by then, they actually have enough customers to justify going through with building the vehicles, or even continue the brand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I'd like to add, I live in NYS.... Never had any problems with RWD vehicles, myself, my parents.... If you know how to drive, you can drive RWD in the winter for the few months out of the year...... If you can't, you don't deserve the privilege of a license. The industry is also heading towards fully AWD vehicles. I'm that case, RWD bias is much better, because then you have great support in the rear, with excellent weight distribution, and the 40% power in the front is plenty with the engine weight on the front wheels..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 What do you call the MKX? The MKC? Both brand new with the new split wing grille iteration..... That's all I'm saying, bringing out new models with the same old face that's tweaked and associated with gussied up Ford's..... The new Continental is on CD4, so is the MKZ.... MKZ is just a refresh, but it has a brand new front fascia (same ugly rear), and an updated interior.... I'd also drive the 2017 MKZ..... The thing is, I hate that short stubby front end look..... You guys have to realize, Lincoln's sales are up, because people see some new looking models, so they're trying them out... Same thing happened to Caddy..... I don't understand your point at all.....MKC came out in 2015. MKX came out for 2016. Clearly, they decided to change the brand's styling/grille direction for all models 2017 and beyond - you know.....after both MKC and MKX came out. Obviously they can't put a new 2017+ grille design on a 2015 or 2016 vehicle?? Nor can they instantly change the front of either. Obviously the MKZ can have the new grille....it got a redeisgn for 2017. As I stated earlier, Navigator loses the split wing with its redesign for 2018MY (debuts next year). MKC will drop the split wing when it is redesigned completely for 2019MY - it skips a refresh. MKX will also get a refresh (like the 2017 MKZ) for 2019MY and will switch to the new grille. MKT will also be dropped at this time with Aviator replacing it a year or two later....yes, with the new grille. The split wing is being phased out. No new model from this point forward will have it. Here's a timeline of the new grille transition: 2017 - MKZ, Conti 2018 - Navigator 2019 - MKC, MKX (MKT dropped) 2020 - Aviator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I don't understand your point at all.....MKC came out in 2015. MKX came out for 2016. Clearly, they decided to change the brand's styling/grille direction for all models 2017 and beyond - you know.....after both MKC and MKX came out. Obviously they can't put a new 2017+ grille design on a 2015 or 2016 vehicle?? Nor can they instantly change the front of either. Obviously the MKZ can have the new grille....it got a redeisgn for 2017. As I stated earlier, Navigator loses the split wing with its redesign for 2018MY (debuts next year). MKC will drop the split wing when it is redesigned completely for 2019MY - it skips a refresh. MKX will also get a refresh (like the 2017 MKZ) for 2019MY and will switch to the new grille. MKT will also be dropped at this time with Aviator replacing it a year or two later....yes, with the new grille. The split wing is being phased out. No new model from this point forward will have it. Here's a timeline of the new grille transition: 2017 - MKZ, Conti 2018 - Navigator 2019 - MKC, MKX (MKT dropped) 2020 - Aviator Like I said before, it's like beating a dead horse, we're going in circles.... We all already know the timeline for products going forward up until 2020... we all already know Lincoln at some point has intentions of RWD I some form.... My point was, the Continental was in the pipeline for years, since Mark took over and said we're saving Lincoln, obviously they didn't design the car within a year, show it in 15 as a concept and show it in 16 production ready for 17.... To further the point, why bring out an all new model, and a totally redesigned model, just to have them be a year or two short of Lincoln's new face, and having two big sellers with the old face..... It's stupid..... They should change all Lincoln's effective immediately that hold important roles in the portfolio and brand image.... The MKZ, MKC, MKX, Continental, and Navigator, which is going to be all new in 18 anyways...... Now we'll be in 2019 and still be buying new Lincoln's with an old ass grille from 6 years ago (speaking in 2019 terms, so everyone can comprehend).... Did Jag keep on with that garbage, or were they totally redesigned 100%, reflecting a change in the tides, leaving behind the horribly outdated garbage????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 (edited) What you're suggesting, all the while talking out of both sides of your mouth, requires a boatload of cash. It ain't gonna happen. Edited May 3, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnLover Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 What you're suggesting, all the while talking out of both sides of your mouth, requires a boatload of cash. It ain't gonna happen. And that is why they will never be a true Mercedes, BMW, even Audi competitor.... They always give Lincoln the shitty end of the stick, just to give a half baked product.... With how much I love the LS even still now, that was half backed too..... That's why many call for the discontinuation of Lincoln like Mercury...... What's the point if you aren't going to give it your all..... At this point it's a waste, they won't grow much more, not without more R&D, better more luxurious products. YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Like I said before, it's like beating a dead horse, we're going in circles.... We all already know the timeline for products going forward up until 2020... we all already know Lincoln at some point has intentions of RWD I some form.... My point was, the Continental was in the pipeline for years, since Mark took over and said we're saving Lincoln, obviously they didn't design the car within a year, show it in 15 as a concept and show it in 16 production ready for 17.... To further the point, why bring out an all new model, and a totally redesigned model, just to have them be a year or two short of Lincoln's new face, and having two big sellers with the old face..... It's stupid..... They should change all Lincoln's effective immediately that hold important roles in the portfolio and brand image.... The MKZ, MKC, MKX, Continental, and Navigator, which is going to be all new in 18 anyways...... Now we'll be in 2019 and still be buying new Lincoln's with an old ass grille from 6 years ago (speaking in 2019 terms, so everyone can comprehend).... Did Jag keep on with that garbage, or were they totally redesigned 100%, reflecting a change in the tides, leaving behind the horribly outdated garbage????? But just as Conti has been in development for years, so were the MKC and MKX before that. Not only that, I wouldn't be surprised if early versions of the Conti DID have the split wing, as it was originally just supposed to be a next-gen MKS before Fields made the decision to make it a Continental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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