Lincoln RWD here we come...... Possibly new developments????

[akirby]

Continuing with D3 wasn't really an option - they messed up when they chose it initially. Even so it got them through the tough times and will soon be replaced.

[LincolnLover]

So, what is the timeline? I know Aviator has said to pop up around 2020, maybe 2019, when do you think I'll have my RWD sedan?

[silvrsvt]

The issue with D3 was that by the time the market essentially rejected the D3 cars, they had invested sooo much into that platform that they couldn't just dump it and base everything on CD3. I get the impression CD3 wasn't as flexible with regards to size as CD4 turned out to be, so they HAD to keep reworking D3 just to make it work long enough to get the Explorer out and finally not lose their ass on the platform anymore.

 

I'd say that is a bit extreme...the Five Hundred/Freestyle came out in 2005, MCE/renamed to Taurus in 2008 and a fairly substantial update in 2009 with the MKS release and the 2010 Taurus.

 

The Explorer came along in 2011 and the Flex came in 2009. IIRC the Flex was originally based a CD platform, but space wise it wouldn't work from what I remember.

 

Lets also not forget to preface it with a couple different things that affected it:

 

The D3 was the first new/major platform car platform in NA since the Original Taurus if I recall correctly

 

Ford was also looking at a major platform consolation in 2010 or so with Merging EU and NA products...the D3 has issues, but it works for what its being used for...it was more important to spend money on the C/CD cars and the F-series, which are Ford's profit center.

[silvrsvt]

So, what is the timeline? I know Aviator has said to pop up around 2020, maybe 2019, when do you think I'll have my RWD sedan?

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on a RWD sedan...a RWD larger CUV on the Explorer is more likely.

 

2019 MY or 2018 CY launch is most likely thing to happen.

[LincolnLover]

 

I wouldn't hold your breath on a RWD sedan...a RWD larger CUV on the Explorer is more likely.

 

2019 MY or 2018 CY launch is most likely thing to happen.

Which would be the Aviator, yes? Or am I miss informed? Are you saying no RWD by 2020, or no plans whatsoever at this time, for even 2020-2025? I don't see how they could seriously plan out a RWD Aviator and not even think of a RWD mid size or full size sedan with coupe/convertible options, as by 2020 there should be plenty profit as sales continue to hopefully rise, as they should with China, even though they had to spend billions on the China expansion, but in any event should see some nice profits considering the atp and what they actually spend per vehicle. The Continental should give a nice boost, I'm still very interested in looking at one, maybe I could get my parents friend, the owner of the Lincoln dealer, to let me test drive one once 2017 comes and they have a couple on the lot. I'm going immediately as soon as I get word there's one, even if I can't touch, just to look, like I did the CT6, which if you haven't, you should, because that vehicle is excellent and you could actually compare the two vehicles. That's not to say I wouldn't buy a Continental, I could and get rid of it if I don't like it and try a CT6 or vice versa. I'm not buying new, though, I never do. I wait a year just to make sure no major recalls and I also think the auto industry are the biggest crooks, resale value is also not even close to what it was new.

[akirby]

Aviator/Explorer 2018/2019 - RWD/AWD on CD6. Some of us think there will also be at least one Lincoln sedan and one coupe and possibly a Ford sedan off CD6 or a CD6 related platform. Others disagree.

[fuzzymoomoo]

Aviator/Explorer 2018/2019 - RWD/AWD on CD6. Some of us think there will also be at least one Lincoln sedan and one coupe and possibly a Ford sedan off CD6 or a CD6 related platform. Others disagree.

That leaked production schedule a few months ago suggested a Large Lincoln sedan above the Continental. How likely that is now given that the bottom is falling out of the sedan market is definitely up for debate.

[LincolnLover]

That leaked production schedule a few months ago suggested a Large Lincoln sedan above the Continental. How likely that is now given that the bottom is falling out of the sedan market is definitely up for debate.

Ahhhhhh, I like the sound of this...... A Town Car successor hmmmmm...... Just what I need and many others, that'll take the cake from that S-shit box Mercedes...... Where do I find a copy of this leak? I also disagree with the sedan marketing losing momentum in favor of crossovers, you still need sedans/cars, I know a gazillion people who don't like crossovers, and SUV's are too big for them, they like to be in a car, large at that. I personally am highly interested in the Aviator if it's a mini Navigator, and I'm interested in a Town Car. That would make my day, and would keep me happy, as long as they expand on the Continental interior.

[akirby]

You can disagree all you want but facts are facts - sedan sales are down and crossovers are up.

[LincolnLover]

Yes, I know the numbers have changed, but they can change back just as easily, and the last thing needs is to put all their eggs in one basic, hence trying to build up the SUV's more so than sedans..... I'm aware of the increase in crossovers, Bentayga, and RR has one coming, so if those 2 companies are having one, then it must really be important. Having said that, a large Town Car is still necessary no matter what anyone says or thinks, the market or anyone, it's an important piece to the company to have that vehicle, whether or not they call it Town Car, or some new name..... I'd go with Town Car, because everyone knows it, just like Continental. The only problem that can arise is, everyone will think it's just another airport courier or limo, which it probably will end up being, it will be in a fleet line somewhere.

[LincolnLover]

Have you not heard of the 4.2TT V8 in development planned for a '17 launch on the CT6, or did that slip your mind? It's in development just like the RWD Aviator.......

Edited July 1, 2016 by LincolnLover

[fuzzymoomoo]

You keep saying that a "Town Car" is essential, but you never say why....

Edited July 1, 2016 by fuzzymoomoo

[LincolnLover]

You keep saying that a "Town Car" is essential, but you never say why....

I call it "Town Car", because as we all know that was the epitome of luxury for Lincoln, and known and respected until the German's gained and far surpassed Cadillac and Lincoln, especially in the last decade or two. Now, let's refer to this full sized ultra lux S600, A8L, 760Li, XJL, etc competitor as "Town Car" to make it easy.

It would hold the candle as the best of Lincoln and everyone would know. It would be unlike anything before it, an advanced proper and superior RWD-biased sedan with torque vectoring, a small TT V8 optional, super plush and soft, comfortable, gorgeous leather, wood trim and chrome, basically take the Continental and expand that to another level...... Maybe start MSRP at $65-75k and black label $100k-ish...... It's going to be the biggest marketing job ever, because they'll need to get buyers to want it, especially at that price point. The car will really need to sell its self almost. It really has to out class an S-class. Best technology package, best amenities. They'll be America's luxury brand. I think that it would share the same thing Navigator does, in the sense it's a "Navigator", once the epitome of SUV's, now let go like, how some wives do after 3 children and 20 years of marriage.......

It's really the "flagship"...... The best of everything ever......

Edited July 1, 2016 by LincolnLover

[LincolnLover]

Yes, I would consider if the torque vectoring is able to route the power to the rear 70/30 at minimum with a selection of a button so to speak and it has an impressive ride, much superior and better than the MKZ...... I would most certainly not be thrilled, because the front is FWD written all over it. I don't know why they wouldn't have stretched the front a little more and make the engine longitudinal, people would've shit...... I said previously I have not had a chance to see it face to face, rather YouTube NYIAS and that black dude at the LA dealership with the white one the other day. Other than that, I have not, I think it looks a LOT better than the MKS proportions and would be 100% perfect with RWD proportions. I've the CT6 face to face, skin to paint, etc and that is the epitome of American luxury at this moment. It's not German either, it's an American sedan, not super performance monster, very elegant, very sophisticated, very "rich", I think it's perfect with the 4.2TT V8 and the RWD-bias AWD.....

Edited July 1, 2016 by LincolnLover

[LincolnLover]

Ohh, and I'm not a fan at all of push buttons, I'd rather it been on the steering column, but whatever.

[Justdatdude]

You're demanding all these request as if you are in the market for an 80k lux car when actually you are a used or cpo lux buyer. Here lies the problem with doing what you suggest yes there is a market for it but when you actually have to pay for the product then that market becomes thinner because people like you who wants to buy used for cheaper. Why would a brand thats been irrelevant for 20 yrs suddenly be what everyone wants to own? You can't make people buy this type of car from Lincoln if they have a problem selling 40k cars and then have to reinvest for the next gen of products after barely making a profit off the one before, this is why there is no 2nd gen LS. I understand what you want as do others but if you are a "LincolnLover" you would love to see them make strides that they are making. We're only 3 yrs into a dedicated plan, staff and design studio thats huge for a brand that didnt have that for decades. Let's keep watching and see what they do and maybe by the time you are able to purchase brand new you will have a rwd Lincoln car.

[LincolnLover]

You're demanding all these request as if you are in the market for an 80k lux car when actually you are a used or cpo lux buyer. Here lies the problem with doing what you suggest yes there is a market for it but when you actually have to pay for the product then that market becomes thinner because people like you who wants to buy used for cheaper. Why would a brand thats been irrelevant for 20 yrs suddenly be what everyone wants to own? You can't make people buy this type of car from Lincoln if they have a problem selling 40k cars and then have to reinvest for the next gen of products after barely making a profit off the one before, this is why there is no 2nd gen LS. I understand what you want as do others but if you are a "LincolnLover" you would love to see them make strides that they are making. We're only 3 yrs into a dedicated plan, staff and design studio thats huge for a brand that didnt have that for decades. Let's keep watching and see what they do and maybe by the time you are able to purchase brand new you will have a rwd Lincoln car.

I hear ya there, lots of. If talkers that can't back it up.... I personally do not believe in buying new vehicles for anyone, whether a Chevy or a Bentley. I however am strongly considering buying or leasing a CT6 or was hoping to try a Continental sometime in 2017. I don't like those leases though, because you pay all that money have nothing out of it, but then again you're not stuck with an old car. We'll see......

[akirby]

a large Town Car is still necessary no matter what anyone says or thinks, the market or anyone, it's an important piece to the company to have that vehicle

This is where you're absolutely dead wrong because you don't understand businesses. You know what's necessary for Lincoln? Profit and nothing else. Not magazine comparisons, not bought and paid for awards, not bragging rights amongst your buddies, not "prestige" because none of those pay the bills. GM was #1 in sales and went bankrupt at the same time - because their vehicles weren't generating enough profit. end of discussion. GM may be willing to subsidize caddy while they rebuild but they'll have a damn hard time recouping that investment within the next 5 years. And Ford simply refuses to play that game. They'll rebuild the brand over the next 10-20 years with steady improvements and they'll do it while still turning a profit.

 

And if you still don't understand it then maybe your parents can explain it to you.

[LincolnLover]

This is where you're absolutely dead wrong because you don't understand businesses. You know what's necessary for Lincoln? Profit and nothing else. Not magazine comparisons, not bought and paid for awards, not bragging rights amongst your buddies, not "prestige" because none of those pay the bills. GM was #1 in sales and went bankrupt at the same time - because their vehicles weren't generating enough profit. end of discussion. GM may be willing to subsidize caddy while they rebuild but they'll have a damn hard time recouping that investment within the next 5 years. And Ford simply refuses to play that game. They'll rebuild the brand over the next 10-20 years with steady improvements and they'll do it while still turning a profit.

 

And if you still don't understand it then maybe your parents can explain it to you.

Geez, I'm beginning to think Akirby is an executive at Ford...... You talk an awful lot about making the most profit, it's not a good look for Ford. Makes 'em look like crooks, they don't care about their customer's wants or needs, just how much money they rake in. The truth is, I think 80% of Ford sales are unsuspecting soccer moms and dads who don't know what a spark plug is..... I'm being dead honest here, not trying to disparage or anything, but seriously if you ask an F-150 owner what's under their hood, they don't know. Then ask why they bought it.... Because it's a truck. Yes but why? Just in case I need it.... Oh, that's a big in case...... Then you got fleet sales that don't even make sense as to why they use those vehicles. I know one of our companies with associate with has a deal with another company where they lease trucks, and I gotta tell ya, the 2015 F-250 6.2 4wd reg cab long box is a complete dog.......

I do understand business, if I didn't I wouldn't have or be in the position I'm in my friends. You don't get rich by not getting the most profit and consolidating your expenses, but let me tell you, it all can end quick if you don't supply what customers want..... The 100,000 units Lincoln sold last year wouldn't even put a dent in the small city I live in if every person owned one...... That's gross, and I don't consider that anything special compared to previous sales, just the launch of MKC and MKX propelled some extra sales....... Let's see if they can not just increase and but maintain....... That's where the men seperate from the boys. They sold more Town Cars than total sales last year. BMW 3-Series sells that in 3 months...... Etc..... Need I say more? Cadillac still outsells Lincoln 3-1, and they haven't had a new product until now, the ATS and CTS were already stagnant and they needed to work out a few quirks. Let's compare Lincoln to Cadillac at the end of this year.....

Edited July 2, 2016 by LincolnLover

[LincolnLover]

This is where you're absolutely dead wrong because you don't understand businesses. You know what's necessary for Lincoln? Profit and nothing else. Not magazine comparisons, not bought and paid for awards, not bragging rights amongst your buddies, not "prestige" because none of those pay the bills. GM was #1 in sales and went bankrupt at the same time - because their vehicles weren't generating enough profit. end of discussion. GM may be willing to subsidize caddy while they rebuild but they'll have a damn hard time recouping that investment within the next 5 years. And Ford simply refuses to play that game. They'll rebuild the brand over the next 10-20 years with steady improvements and they'll do it while still turning a profit.

 

And if you still don't understand it then maybe your parents can explain it to you.

Also, it's not only that they weren't making enough profit, the market tanked and no one was prepared, gas prices went sky high and have stayed that way until recently, hence the crossover boom, and the fact we had and have a horrible government and president.......

[LincolnLover]

Lots of people got hurt, not just the stupid car companies..... We lost $80k in stocks........ Terrible thing that happened.

[MKX1960]

That leaked production schedule a few months ago suggested a Large Lincoln sedan above the Continental. How likely that is now given that the bottom is falling out of the sedan market is definitely up for debate.

Cadillac killed their plans for a big sedan in favor of more SUV type vehicles I believe.

[MKX1960]

.... Need I say more? Cadillac still outsells Lincoln 3-1, and they haven't had a new product until now, the ATS and CTS were already stagnant and they needed to work out a few quirks. Let's compare Lincoln to Cadillac at the end of this year.....

The only thing selling at Cadillac is the Escalade. If Lincoln keeps moving up at the current pace and Cadillac keeps moving down, Lincoln will be ahead.

[akirby]

Also, it's not only that they weren't making enough profit, the market tanked and no one was prepared, ..

Ford was prepared. Honda was prepared. Toyota was prepared. Nissan was prepared. Hyundai and Kia were prepared. Porsche, VW and Audi were prepared. Everybody but GM and Chrysler.

 

Look at it this way. Everybody was driving down the freeway at 55 mph and there was a sudden 20 car pileup. Everybody was wearing seat belts except GM and Chrysler so they survived. You can't blame the accident for that - you blame it on them not being prepared.

 

Seriously - stop arguing about things you're not yet old enough or experienced enough to comprehend.

[LincolnLover]

The only thing selling at Cadillac is the Escalade. If Lincoln keeps moving up at the current pace and Cadillac keeps moving down, Lincoln will be ahead.

These are assumptions.... You're assuming an increase in people will buy Lincoln's and less will buy Cadillac's.... Why do you think this when each company is launching new vehicles, one revolutionary, undercutting the competition and best value. I'd say it would potentially be the other way around. The Cadillac lineup is hot for 2016. Once the XT7 and XT3 come out, forget about it.