2017 Autoshow Photos & Impressions

[fuzzymoomoo]

I agree that Lincoln has a different struggle than others, they can't afford to gamble with design when they are trying to convince new customers to take them seriously. The previous design language, although unique and expressive, did not convey the appropriate message and wasn't universally liked. I think they made the right move to bring in some familiar luxury car design cues to make that communication clearer. And Lincoln isn't quite as afraid of its older clientele as other luxury makers, it's perhaps the only luxury marque that has no aspirational appeal among younger customers. Hopefully that eventually comes.

I disagree with that, because I don't believe the guys in charge of Lincoln are that stupid. They are however not taking the "if you build it they will come" approach that Cadillac and Buick are taking, which seems to be working and I believe the in 2-3 years the demographics will begin to reflect that.

[silvrsvt]

I disagree with that, because I don't believe the guys in charge of Lincoln are that stupid. They are however not taking the "if you build it they will come" approach that Cadillac and Buick are taking, which seems to be working and I believe the in 2-3 years the demographics will begin to reflect that.

 

 

how much younger can you really make it though? Given the fact that younger generations (under 30 lets say) aren't driving as much as my generation (40+) how much can you really drop the average age of your buyer?

 

Some more info here:

 

The average new car buyer is now 51.7 years old and earns about $80,000 per year, while the average age of the population is 36.8 years old and the median income is roughly $50,000, Szakaly said

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150804/RETAIL03/150809938/car-buyers-getting-older-richer-nada-economist-says

Edited January 16, 2017 by silvrsvt

[snooter]

Thanks for the post...we have looked hard at the 2017 mazda 3..yes there intetiors are drop dead gourgeous and feel like the belong in a car, hatch, suv etc that should cost double what mazda has for msrp...they are that nice....soon as we see the new focus/fiesta and what ford has done with the interior upgrade it will determine what hatch we buy thus fall..could be a ford or mazda...really waiting on the new focus...if it measures up nearly to the mazda it will be a new focus in our driveway (if i can get a 6sp manual)..mazda seems to like us manual guys that do not want an auto..ford should take notice

Edited January 16, 2017 by snooter

[rmc523]

I agree that Lincoln has a different struggle than others, they can't afford to gamble with design when they are trying to convince new customers to take them seriously. The previous design language, although unique and expressive, did not convey the appropriate message and wasn't universally liked. I think they made the right move to bring in some familiar luxury car design cues to make that communication clearer. And Lincoln isn't quite as afraid of its older clientele as other luxury makers, it's perhaps the only luxury marque that has no aspirational appeal among younger customers. Hopefully that eventually comes.

 

I want a Lincoln and I'm well under their average age. I know my tastes don't always align with my age group, though.

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

 

how much younger can you really make it though? Given the fact that younger generations (under 30 lets say) aren't driving as much as my generation (40+) how much can you really drop the average age of your buyer?

 

Some more info here:

 

The average new car buyer is now 51.7 years old and earns about $80,000 per year, while the average age of the population is 36.8 years old and the median income is roughly $50,000, Szakaly said

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20150804/RETAIL03/150809938/car-buyers-getting-older-richer-nada-economist-says

I mean Lincoln is smart in not necessarily targeting millennials like Caddilac (and to a lesser extent Buick) is

 

There's a happy medium to be found and I think Lincoln's slow burn approach is going to pay off more in the long run.

Edited January 16, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo

[brucelinc]

While strictly anecdotal, my younger acquaintances seem more impressed with my Conti than folks my age or older. Seems that most of the older people in my circle are surprised it isn't bigger and more Town Carish. The younger crowd always compliments the black pocket wheels and visible calipers.

[BORG]

I'm not sure "Quiet Luxury" is the message younger customers want to hear. And I know I'm an extremely unusual Lincoln customer, as I hear ALL the time from my peers. I'm a 30-something male driving an MKX primarily driven by older women or retirees. I do like the 'sleeper' aspect of Lincoln, I think it can be a car that surprises people when they see it or sit in it. Lincoln can look really frumpy, especially if you get a gold or maroon base model which seems to appeal to the majority of their customer base. But there are versions of each Lincoln that look very modern and upscale and are equipped with impressive features and power. I think the problem for Lincoln customers who buy those Lincolns (like me) is that they sell these frumpy cheesy looking Lincolns as well which just muddies their image among the majority of people who actually see them on the road. Sometimes it's a little like Buick, home of the Grand National and Buick LeSabre...what kind of brand are you at any given time? That's really one of the things I want cleaned up at Lincoln. Less cheapy variants, fewer dated colors and wheels, more exclusivity.

Edited January 16, 2017 by BORG

[brucelinc]

While I am sure Lincoln would be happy to sell a Continental to a 30 something, that is not the demographic they are after with that model. If you read the dealer training materials, you will see that they expect the target client to be 58, have over $200,000 of income and not feel the need to prove anything to others. 37% will be retired and about 40% will be either professionals, self employed or executives.

 

I have no idea if their expectations are reality but that is in the training material. I do think the Reserve and Black Label model are exceeding sales expectations and the average transaction price is higher than anticipated.

[BORG]

I know Lincoln's average ATP is around $34K which is by far the lowest among luxury automakers (even below GMC) so I do believe Lincoln is largely aspiring to those customers more than actually attracting them. I don't know how they get such low ATPs considering the pricing of their cars but in any case they must be making improvements now. I know that Lincoln is still an outstanding bargain for the pricing and amenities.

 

And I'm not just talking about Continental, but Lincoln as a whole which has a very consistent clientele for all its models.

 

Every luxury maker, even Lexus, has some sort of youth aspiration which seems to be a successful part of marketing toward younger professionals buying luxury cars for the first time. Newer luxury car customers are less likely to chose a brand with a traditional image unless they offer something unique and exclusive. I'm not sure Lincoln quite does that but they have an interesting message for existing customers who might otherwise leave. I know they manage to keep me around.

Edited January 16, 2017 by BORG

[jpd80]

I'm confused as to how Lincoln's ATP could be around $34K when that's roughly the starting price for the MKC,

most of their vehicles are sold as loaded examples.....I'm pretty sure you'll find it a lot higher..

 

The only price that Ford shares is the ATP for combined Ford and Lincoln, after incentives are deducted, that is around $34K

Edited January 16, 2017 by jpd80

[rmc523]

I know Lincoln's average ATP is around $34K which is by far the lowest among luxury automakers (even below GMC) so I do believe Lincoln is largely aspiring to those customers more than actually attracting them. I don't know how they get such low ATPs considering the pricing of their cars but in any case they must be making improvements now. I know that Lincoln is still an outstanding bargain for the pricing and amenities.

 

And I'm not just talking about Continental, but Lincoln as a whole which has a very consistent clientele for all its models.

 

Every luxury maker, even Lexus, has some sort of youth aspiration which seems to be a successful part of marketing toward younger professionals buying luxury cars for the first time. Newer luxury car customers are less likely to chose a brand with a traditional image unless they offer something unique and exclusive. I'm not sure Lincoln quite does that but they have an interesting message for existing customers who might otherwise leave. I know they manage to keep me around.

Yes, I'd agree in the short term, their goal has been to stabilize their customer base, we'll see them push higher with each coming generation of vehicles. As I've said many times before, look at the last generation of products compared to the current generation and see the huge progress they've made with a small push, and imagine what they can do with a bigger push (which will be aided/enabled by expansion in China).

 

Regarding Lexus, until the predator grille, they weren't overly desired by younger people....they had the same "old persons car" image Lincoln does, and it took Lexus what, 20 years before they pushed out of that envelope?

[rmc523]

I'm confused as to how Lincoln's ATP could be around $34K when that's roughly the starting price for the MKC,

most of their vehicles are sold as loaded examples.....I'm pretty sure you'll find it a lot higher..

 

The only price that Ford shares is the ATP for combined Ford and Lincoln, after incentives are deducted, that is around $34K

Yeah, there's no way it's that low, I'd say it's at least in the mid 40s.

[jpd80]

I'm suspecting that the new Navigator will do plenty to boost Lincoln's ATPs, just like Escalade has done for Cadillac.

No way we'll see 3,000/mth sales of Navigator sales but I can live in denial...

 

Still disappointed that we don't have Explorer based Aviator in there instead of MKT

but maybe that plays to stronger Navigator sales in the future?

Edited January 17, 2017 by jpd80

[Anthony]

I'm guessing the Lincoln ATP numbers were from the Cadillac investor presentation (pg 10). No idea if accurate or not.

 

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4024652-general-motors-gm-investor-presentation-slideshow?app=1&auth_param=3i381:1c2ueiq:dc939f3490bc6be84aca38891aededdf&uprof=28Some

[BORG]

I'm guessing the Lincoln ATP numbers were from the Cadillac investor presentation (pg 10). No idea if accurate or not.

 

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4024652-general-motors-gm-investor-presentation-slideshow?app=1&auth_param=3i381:1c2ueiq:dc939f3490bc6be84aca38891aededdf&uprof=28Some

 

 

Yeah, Lincoln is actually around $37K, the lowest in the industry and going up slightly. Caddy and Mercedes are in the $53K region at the top of the industry. Lincoln sales are also among the lowest, which is made worse by the lowest ATPs (cheaper cars should sell more). So making money on Lincolns is very difficult for Ford until they get both of these things up which they are doing very slowly. It should accelerate a bit with Continental and more so with Navigator as they finally push into the upper tiers. Continental is still priced like a midsize sedan so it's still on the low-end of the spectrum but Lincoln's small budget is very unique in luxury which makes their margins bigger despite the lower prices and sales numbers.

Edited January 17, 2017 by BORG

[rmc523]

I still can't see how it's that low.

[BORG]

I still can't see how it's that low.

 

 

Incentives, leasing, fleeting, who knows but the most expensive Lincolns were only in the 50s until the 2016 MKX which broke into the 60s, and now we have Continental breaking into the 70s. Caddy and Mercedes obviously sell far more expensive products in greater numbers. So it's not really that hard to imagine this when MKC and MKZ, some of the cheapest cars in their segments, make up the bulk of their volume and they can be had with some significant incentives. So really half of Lincoln's struggle comes down to getting bigger paying customers, not just more customers.

Edited January 17, 2017 by BORG

[fuzzymoomoo]

 

 

Incentives, leasing, fleeting, who knows but the most expensive Lincolns were only in the 50s until the 2016 MKX which broke into the 60s, and now we have Continental breaking into the 70s. Caddy and Mercedes obviously sell far more expensive products in greater numbers. So it's not really that hard to imagine this when MKC and MKZ, some of the cheapest cars in their segments, make up the bulk of their volume and they can be had with some significant incentives. So really half of Lincoln's struggle comes down to getting bigger paying customers, not just more customers.

you also noted (intentionally or otherwise) that the last 2 (MKX and Continental) new models are bringing higher ATPs so it's safe to say that trend with the new Navigator all the way until the new MKC, MKZ and Aviator are launched in the next 3-5 years.

[BORG]

Haha, I'm definitely familiar with Lincoln's surging prices. My first loaded 2007 MKX was $43K, by 2011 it was $53K, and by 2016 it was $63K....but MKX base price also droped in 2016 which shows you they are holding firm on those base prices recently. Much of this is just a luxury brand tax, we saw that when the pricing on the Navigator surged in 2015 with the MCE which wasn't proportional to the changes or additions. It's clearly an arbitrary number dependent on what the market can bare so Lincoln has a ton of wiggle room to be on the value spectrum while pushing into premium pricing for the first time. It's important to pay attention to how many premium products Lincoln can sell which we won't really know until the next gen Navigator comes online and Continental moves up a notch with a next generation. Aviator would certainly help as well. Certain Lincoln models seem to have a fixed sales ceiling like MKX, MKZ, and MKC so we won't see much growth out of them but if they can hang onto sales while increasing ATPs than they are making another kind of progress.

Edited January 17, 2017 by BORG

[Trailhiker]

I agree that right now Lincoln has a set number of customers, and added models will be cross shopped by others already in the Lincoln fold. They can certainly expect a 10% gain per year, but beyond that they do need to up their marketing effort and focus more on the vehicle than the actor. I think more people talk about the new Matthew commercial, and forget what product he is hawking.

[akirby]

I guarantee people remember they're Lincoln commercials even if they don't remember the specific vehicle which is really the point - to make it cool to own a Lincoln. You can see the vehicles on the street and on the website any time.

[BORG]

I kid you not, I heard people joke about Mathew McConaughey in the Lincoln exhibit no less than 3 times while I was there. And of course I think that's the first thing people see when they think Lincoln now. It really is brilliant marketing, the campaign is incredibly successful and a lesson to the industry. Obviously there is a shelf-life to such a phenomenon but they are keeping it fresh which is also no small thing.

Edited January 17, 2017 by BORG