silvrsvt Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/epa-cements-2025-fuel-efficiency-standards-trump-administration-takes-over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't understand the argument that "It remains to be seen whether the incoming administration will be able to reverse agency action in full or in part within a relatively short period of time; it's not easily reversible because the process that led to it has been years in the making." What exactly is the "process that led to this?" If all they did was maintain what they already set, was there really any process going on besides reviewing it early to squeeze it in before the change of power? I don't understand why Trump couldn't reduce it if he wanted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Lots of paranoia about what "sweeping changes" Trump will enact as if he's a mad dictator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Carlos Ghosn put it best Even if the Trump administration does roll back emissions standards here in the US, the auto industry still has to build to the standards of the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Apparently I missed the new administration's talk about rolling back FE standards, as I don't recall anything about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Carlos Ghosn put it best Even if the Trump administration does roll back emissions standards here in the US, the auto industry still has to build to the standards of the rest of the world. Carlos Ghosn doesn't know what he's talking about. Emissions regs aren't going backwards, they just aren't. What is almost certainly going to be revisited is the messy CAFE situation. Right now it basically incentivizes production of gas guzzlers by requiring a disproportionate amount of FE improvement to come from small cars. The new CAFE requirements are all sizzle, no steak. In fact, when all's said and done, they might actually contribute to worse corporate fleet economy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Carlos Ghosn doesn't know what he's talking about. Emissions regs aren't going backwards, they just aren't. That was his ultimate point. I need to find the actual quote rather than my paraphrased version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Found it. From a Jalopnik article http://jalopnik.com/general-motors-and-hyundai-kia-both-announce-billions-i-1791283441 But the U.S. doesnt exist alone in the global market, and electrification and other developments are being led by Western Europe and China. Car companies executives in Detroit for the auto show admitted that any changes Trump makes to U.S. mileage standards may be offset by emission rules in other countries they also hope to sell vehicles in. Lets not forget that this is a global issue, and we develop engines for the global market, Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn said. That means we have to develop for the U.S. but also for something that will serve us in Europe, will serve us in China, will serve us in Japan. So what is really driving alternative energy is a global trend, a global trend independent of what happens locally in big markets. Global trend is driving higher levels of fuel efficiency no matter what happens in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 That whole chunk of writing is stupid. Since WHEN is electrification being led by "Western Europe and China"? What 'other developments'? Dirty diesels? Not to mention the difference between fuel efficiency and emissions regulations--as though clean vehicles in the US will be a sort of happy byproduct of stricter requirements elsewhere-as though the US didn't have the toughest emissions regs in the world, and by a large margin. This arrogant stupidity just gets under my skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BORG Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) Part of CAFE's function is stabilizing fuel consumption so price fluctuations don't drive instability in the economy. Other countries do this mostly through straightforward taxes while the US prefers to do it through very complicated regulations since it shifts the burden away from the consumer and gives private industry an opportunity to innovate their way through it (which they've done brilliantly). I'm not sure Trumps Anti-Environmentalism administration wants to encourage unsustainable consumption but I'm sure we'll see de-regulation. Whether the automotive industry actually changes because of it remains to be seen, ultimately consumers decide based on fuel prices. Tesla didn't come out of Germany or Japan after all and the Prius didn't become one of the best selling cars in the US because of regulations. I think the biggest issue will likely come on the world stage where the US will likely withdraw from cooperating on global carbon emission and regulations which isn't really an obligation anyway. I'm honestly more concerned about other environmental matters such as wildlife protection and conservation programs. Edited January 18, 2017 by BORG 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I'm honestly more concerned about other environmental matters such as wildlife protection and conservation programs. I sincerely don't believe you will have to worry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I honestly do not believe that the EPA will be around much longer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Part of CAFE's function is stabilizing fuel consumption This has never been the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) And as FCA has just discovered, you'd be crazy to keep making cars that are getting harder to sell and compliance under tighter CAFE when its much easier to drop them and build more larger vehicles that can be charged at higher prices and are easier to meet CAFE. CAFE actually acts as disincentive to build smaller cars while Electrics and ZEVs are loocked at 3% sales, most of those are to meet the California aligned states... Edited January 18, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 There are still fluctuations in the price of gasoline and diesel fuel in European countries. I remember a story a few years ago about French truckers protesting diesel fuel price increases. European fuel prices are high because of various taxes added to the price at the pump. Those taxes are used to pay for various government programs. If the base price of gasoline or diesel fuel increases, those countries aren't going to reduce their revenue from those taxes by lowering said taxes to ensure unchanged prices at the pump. They can't afford to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Personally id like 50mpg grocery getters...just keep yer hands off trucks..but thats just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Personally id like 50mpg grocery getters...just keep yer hands off trucks..but thats just me its not even 50 MPG sticker...its fleet totals which are based on an unadjusted measurement from the 1970s. You'd have to drive something like a CRX to get 50MPG..and thats with out all the crash cell improvements, extra safety equipment, etc that modern cars have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Trucks like F150, the minimum sticker value goes from 19 mpg now to something like 23 mpg in 2025. Why would you bother building anything but larger foot print vehicles from mid sized up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msm859 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Fortunately I live in California and we have CARB - that a number of other states also follow. Let Trump gut the EPA - it may hurt the country in other ways but automotive standards is a little more complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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