fuzzymoomoo Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ford-to-move-electric-car-manufacturing-to-mexico-beef-up-driverless-car-plant-in-michigan-2017-12-06 Surprise surprise, captain cost cut does it again. Edit: this article explains it much better http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/mobility/2017/12/07/ford-flat-rock-mexico-plans/108389628/ Edited December 7, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) LOL, something tells me that Ford just cut the balls off their US EV plans, or maybe moved most of it to China.. and don't be surprised if the anonymous autonomous vehicle program also suffers a reality check too... Edited December 7, 2017 by jpd80 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 LOL, something tells me that Ford just cut the balls off their US EV plans, or maybe moved most of it to China.. and don't be surprised if the anonymous autonomous vehicle program also suffers a reality check too... I wonder why GM thinks they can sell 1 Million EVs a year and build them cost effectively in the US, while Ford cannot. AVs are proposed to be built at Flat Rock 4 years from now. In today's world that is an eternity. This article from Forbes stated that Flat Rock will be producing another vehicle aside form the AV, Continental, and Mustang. Could it be the next-gen MKZ/Zephyr? https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2017/12/06/ford-goes-with-bespoke-automated-vehicle-still-planned-for-2021-in-michigan-ev-to-mexico/#391cece32c88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfan Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ford-to-move-electric-car-manufacturing-to-mexico-beef-up-driverless-car-plant-in-michigan-2017-12-06 Surprise surprise, captain cost cut does it again. This is especially ignorant on Ford's part as NAFTA may very well be scrapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) This article from Forbes stated that Flat Rock will be producing another vehicle aside form the AV, Continental, and Mustang. Could it be the next-gen MKZ/Zephyr? . That was rumored a couple of years ago. Could still happen but from what I understand its still VERY up in the air. Edit: I think you misread the article. The other thing is the electric suv nobody seems to know or care about thats going to Mexico. Edited December 7, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Also, Ive been laughing at this since I read it almost 2 hours ago The company has said moving production of the Focus to China will not result in any job cuts for U.S. hourly employees at the Michigan Assembly Plant where its currently produced. That plant in Wayne will be converted to make the new Ranger pickup starting in late 2018 and the new Bronco SUV in 2020 once Focus production is moved. Such a steaming pile of bullshit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I wonder why GM thinks they can sell 1 Million EVs a year and build them cost effectively in the US, while Ford cannot. . Because GM is pretty adept at lying to themselves?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) Between the piece of rattling crap that is my wife's 2017 Escape and Ford producing more and more out of the country, my next vehicle might be a GM. Edited December 7, 2017 by Pioneer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 Between the piece of rattling crap that is my wife's 2017 Escape and Ford producing more and more out of the country, my next vehicle might be a GM. GM isnt much better. I have several friends who drive GMs and they too have a bunch of random rattles. Also they started this import from China stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 GM isnt much better. I have several friends who drive GMs and they too have a bunch of random rattles. Also they started this import from China stuff Yeah, but Ford is like a drug addict. Sooner or later you have to practice tough love and cut them off. It's the only way they'll learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I wonder why GM thinks they can sell 1 Million EVs a year and build them cost effectively in the US, while Ford cannot. GM has much more experience with EVs than Ford. It is among the leaders in EVs, along with Tesla and Nissan. Ford has a lot of catching up to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 This makes no sense what so ever- The all-new hybrid electric nameplate to be built at Flat Rock will function as Ford’s autonomous fleet vehicle. In a Wednesday evening blog post, Jim Farley, Ford executive vice president and president of global markets, wrote that the new vehicle will be “commercial grade” and “designed for purpose.” So Ford is working on a Hybrid powered vehicle that is self driving, but sounds like its a commercial type vehicle (aka Transit Connect) The battery power CUV aka the Model E sounds like its going to be sharing its platform with the "Gen Z" CUV that will slot between the Escape and Ecosport-which will also built in Mexico? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) This makes no sense what so ever- So Ford is working on a Hybrid powered vehicle that is self driving, but sounds like its a commercial type vehicle (aka Transit Connect) The battery power CUV aka the Model E sounds like its going to be sharing its platform with the "Gen Z" CUV that will slot between the Escape and Ecosport-which will also built in Mexico? The autonomous hybrid-electric vehicle is likely some stupid shuttle bus or something (where they're getting the "commercial grade" "designed for a purpose" lines) that nobody in the regular buying public will purchase. Edited December 7, 2017 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I wonder why GM thinks they can sell 1 Million EVs a year and build them cost effectively in the US, while Ford cannot. Right now I would guess that GM is losing money on every Bolt they sell. Hard for the vehicle to pay for itself when they're only going to sell about 20,000 for 2017. As battery costs drop, profitability will go up, but that's still several years away. And remember that BEV's currently only make up about 1% of the U.S. market. That ain't much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 'commercial grade autonomous vehicle' is code for the following: "It's not going to work very well--if at all--so none of them will be sold to retail customers." Geez. Geez, geez, geez. Just once, before I die, I'd like to see Ford have two consecutive competent CEOs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 I mean, this product, if it's available at all, is going to be like that fleet of H2 ICEs that Ford set up at a Florida airport. You're going to have this vehicle that comes with a disclaimer long enough to reach to the moon and back that is going to be leased (not sold) to a few select entities and is going to patrol a handful of tightly mapped, low speed, dense urban centers, and then disappear without a trace. There is a level at Ford where the impossibility of widespread autonomous vehicles is understood and there is seemingly a concrete barrier between that level of engineering and all of the management above it that just won't shut up about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Welcome back, Richard. Be careful. If you don't agree Ford's plans you're going to get ganged up on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blksn8k2 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Welcome back, Richard. Be careful. If you don't agree Ford's plans you're going to get ganged up on. Hey, I resemble that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 The autonomous hybrid-electric vehicle is likely some stupid shuttle bus or something (where they're getting the "commercial grade" "designed for a purpose" lines) that nobody in the regular buying public will purchase. Yes sir, shuttle bus is a strong possibility. Taxicab is another. GM is launching self driving Chevy Bolt taxicabs in 2019. Perhaps the purpose designed Ford product will compete in this market. https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/30/16720776/gm-cruise-self-driving-taxi-launch-2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) This is all a bit strange, said Dave Sullivan, a product analysis manager at AutoPacific Inc. Was the original Flat Rock announcement merely lip service to the president? "Ford's plans seem to be a bit scattered these days," he said. "It wasn't too long ago Ford canceled plans to build a plant in Mexico. This is like plant musical chairs. I mean, they broke ground in Mexico and had to pay money to get out of contracts. So now were back to making cars in Mexico? Its just a bit disconcerting from the outside looking in to see how many planned and unplanned announcements there are coming out of Ford this week. Seems a bit chaotic there. https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2017/12/07/ford-mexico-plant-flat-rock/930008001/ Edited December 7, 2017 by Pioneer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 So after a year of reviews, the plan is back to Field's "build everything electric in Mexico" plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) There is a level at Ford where the impossibility of widespread autonomous vehicles is understood and there is seemingly a concrete barrier between that level of engineering and all of the management above it that just won't shut up about it. For all of the board and Senior management's desire to be seen as a highly tech embracing company, Ford still has to listen to the people who know the business best and where actual income is derived. Am I stupid or is Ford now chasing unicorn products that only a handful of buyers actually want? I remember Bill Ford in the early 2000s setting Ford on a course of mass hybrid roll out (~25%?) without ever considering what buyers wanted and whether it was actually commercially viable. Where are all the transitional vehicles like Hybrid versions of Escape, Edge, Explorer, Mustang F150? Surely, those are of far more importance to buyers in the next five or then years.... Edited December 7, 2017 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 How much of this is being driven by possible government mandates? With some nations and even California talking about bans on internal combustion engines within 20-30 years, Ford may have no choice to but to respond. This is not necessarily being driven by what the customer wants. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) Right now I would guess that GM is losing money on every Bolt they sell. Hard for the vehicle to pay for itself when they're only going to sell about 20,000 for 2017. As battery costs drop, profitability will go up, but that's still several years away. And remember that BEV's currently only make up about 1% of the U.S. market. That ain't much. I would bet dollars to donuts that the market for EVs is grossly exaggerated, which is why Im not concerned with Fords position at this time. The infrastructure is not even remotely close to being in place right now, and battery capacity and price are still a major limitation. Do you realize how many people do not have an assigned parking place, let alone a garage, in urban centers. What method will these people use to charge their cars. Im not suggesting solutions wont be found, and this wont be the future, but who is going to pay for that infrastructure and how long before it is in place to sustain a transition. Rperez817 - your chart above would have been more useful had it included the total number EVs sold during the described time frame. Then we would have had a better picture of EV sales relative to the overall market. Tesla dominates this market because its products are compelling, but above that it is seen as a luxury vehicle, and those people can afford the high prices. Teslas are not compact shit boxes that that someone is using as an appliance to get from point A to point B or trying to make some rediculous green statement. Edited December 7, 2017 by tbone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 How much of this is being driven by possible government mandates? With some nations and even California talking about bans on internal combustion engines within 20-30 years, Ford may have no choice to but to respond. This is not necessarily being driven by what the customer wants. Oh, it was reported this week that some talking head in CARB is trying to make ICE cars unavailable for sale in CA by 2020. Purely grandstanding at its best to catch a headline but those nut jobs out there want to kill gasoline powered cars as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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