Roland Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 A report from a site I've never heard of "Virtual Driver" claims to have a confirmed reports that Ford has canceled the clean-sheet design for the 2021 Mustang and will have massive design staff layoffs. I tend to assume that this is click bait. While I suppose they could keep the S550 around indefinitely, a lighter RWD platform for the Mustang and a Lincoln would pay dividends in meeting fuel economy targets down the line. Also, the idea of laying off thousands of design staff seems ridiculous even if you think the future is autonomous people pods as a service. http://www.thevirtualdriver.com/analysis/2017/12/22/ford-kills-clean-sheet-mustang-again.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Full disclosure, I have never heard of this publication either That said, if this is true it lends credence to the Mustang on CD6 rumor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I kinda-always-sorta thought that the S650 and cD6 were more related than not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 What if the '18 mustang was actually a pull forward of options originally planned for the next MCE / product cycle change in 2020. See, I could imagine Ford having one plan for Mustang in 2014 and then having to change it all thanks to Alpha based Gen 6 Camaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Ford one big truck company. This Hackett guy scares me. Building cubicles and file cabinets isn't the same as building cars. It's time to get rid of him before he destroys the company. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 So you actually believe that Ford is going to have "massive design layoffs," and that the S650 is cancelled? All because the well-known publication "Virtual Driver" says so? Has anybody actually heard of "Virtual Driver?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I think it's possible that there's something to S650 being rolled into CD6 (it is a logical supposition based on the rumors about CD6), but thinking that would result in "massive design staff layoffs" is sheer idiocy. It's not like Mustang had a dedicated design team, but even if it did, you'd still need the Mustang designers to design the Mustang, regardless of the underlying platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I think it's possible that there's something to S650 being rolled into CD6 (it is a logical supposition based on the rumors about CD6), but thinking that would result in "massive design staff layoffs" is sheer idiocy. It's not like Mustang had a dedicated design team, but even if it did, you'd still need the Mustang designers to design the Mustang, regardless of the underlying platform. Ford is trying to condense designing and engineering, mostly to eliminate redundancy (or so they claim), so 1500 designers (or whatever the number was) being laid off is probably a possibility. Theyre also outsourcing less of that work to suppliers and sending more of it to Ford teams around the world. India is turning into a big design and IT hub for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Kat Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 You guys really think Dave Pericak is really gonna let Ford go very far off track? Ran Nair? No way! These guys are going to let their hard work go down the drain. Ford flounders sometimes but they always find a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Ford is trying to condense designing and engineering, mostly to eliminate redundancy (or so they claim), so 1500 designers (or whatever the number was) being laid off is probably a possibility. Theyre also outsourcing less of that work to suppliers and sending more of it to Ford teams around the world. India is turning into a big design and IT hub for them. If by designers you mean stylists, the people who draw the cars, I doubt Ford has 1,500 designers world-wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 You guys really think Dave Pericak is really gonna let Ford go very far off track? Ran Nair? If the order comes from the top, then yes. If Hackett is that dead set on cutting costs like he says he is, the performance division will get cut faster than a victim in one of the Saw movies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) If by designers you mean stylists, the people who draw the cars, I doubt Ford has 1,500 designers world-wide. I mean designers. Designers do more than just body work. Someone has to create the parts for the engineers to test and verify. Edited December 23, 2017 by fuzzymoomoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Ford is trying to condense designing and engineering, mostly to eliminate redundancy (or so they claim), so 1500 designers (or whatever the number was) being laid off is probably a possibility. Theyre also outsourcing less of that work to suppliers and sending more of it to Ford teams around the world. India is turning into a big design and IT hub for them. They may be trying to condense design and engineering, but to think that consolidating S650 and CD6 would lead to major layoffs (the point to which I was responding) is just foolishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe3w Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 (edited) You guys really think Dave Pericak is really gonna let Ford go very far off track? Ran Nair? No way! These guys are going to let their hard work go down the drain. Ford flounders sometimes but they always find a way. I don't think Dave has a say about the Mustang any more....... "Dave Pericak, the head of Ford Performance who was instrumental in developing the GT supercar and Raptor performance pickup, has moved to a new role within Ford Motor Co. overseeing engineering of more mainstream products. Pericak, 46, this month became engineering director of Ford's North American unibody applications, according to a Ford spokesman. His LinkedIn profile also says he'll work on Lincoln programs" Edited December 23, 2017 by coupe3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Mustang is a North American unibody application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I mean designers. Designers do more than just body work. Someone has to create the parts for the engineers to test and verify. Engineers create the parts that engineers test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Engineers create the parts that engineers test. This is what I thought too. Designers, to me, are stylists, the people who draw the cars and trucks. Engineers are the people who create engines, transmissions, chassis, etc. Maybe there is an official SAE description for a designer. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 This is what I thought too. Designers, to me, are stylists, the people who draw the cars and trucks. Engineers are the people who create engines, transmissions, chassis, etc. Maybe there is an official SAE description for a designer. I don't know. Designers do drawings. Engineers build vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Designers do drawings. Engineers build vehicles. Ugh, designers and engineers do drawings. Fuzzy and Pioneer (and others) build vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Designers do drawings. Engineers build vehicles. My Dad is a designer. A lot of what he does is make drawings of parts. Hes not in body CAD or anything like that. He spent years on instrument panels, then at Roush did a lot of fascia work. Did a lot on the 2005 GT and the last GT500 come to think of it. Moved on from there and spent years doing weather seals and now is doing whatever is sent his way. Sidebar: it was super cool as a middle schooler getting to see a prototype GT. Before they removed the Gurney bump that was originally supposed to make production but was removed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Ugh, designers and engineers do drawings. Fuzzy and Pioneer (and others) build vehicles. Technically Pioneer keeps the equipment running that allows Fuzzy to build the vehicles, but you’re right about engineers doing drawings. What I meant was designers deal with aesthetics while engineers create the parts that make the vehicle actually work. It’s like someone who only does GUI design versus the coders that actually make the webpages work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 My Dad is a designer. A lot of what he does is make drawings of parts. Hes not in body CAD or anything like that. He spent years on instrument panels, then at Roush did a lot of fascia work. Did a lot on the 2005 GT and the last GT500 come to think of it. So here is the difference. Who decides the size and function of the part and what it’s made of? Does someone else do that and give him the info and he does drawings? If so then he’s a designer. If he does all than then I say he’s an engineer. Or to use a house analogy - designers are interior decorators. Engineers are architects and line workers are carpenters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Sidebar: it was super cool as a middle schooler getting to see a prototype GT. Before they removed the Gurney bump that was originally supposed to make production but was removed. Very cool story. Reminds me when I was a kid back in the 60's (the "Total Performance" era). My dad, who was an engineer in engine design, snuck us into the experimental garage during a "family day" on the Ford campus. Sitting in one bay was a Fairlane Thunderbolt, complete with a 427 SOHC engine. My brother and I about crapped our pants. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Remember when Ford was going to radically redesign Mustang and move it to a front drive chassis....we ended up with Probe instead... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 (edited) Maybe S650 is just code for S550 with hybrid provisioning and if Ford gets 10 years out of a mustang product cycle, then it doesn't have to start NG development until 2020. Edited December 24, 2017 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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