Pioneer Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Ford would be crazy to discontinue the Fusion. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosetang Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I don't mean to put down anyone citing the Fusion's current sales numbers to make their argument, but I want to caution that taking those as set in any sort of stone is a bit risky. There's a whole mess of (decently) efficient Crossovers and (decently) capable every-day EVs coming to dealer lots in the next few years, the market's going to adjust a bit as that happens. Ford's internal numbers might indicate a whole bunch of those buyers won't be there for Fusion anymore, or that keeping the majority of them in Fusion is going to be a heck of a lot more expensive than it is today. According to a Bloomberg.com article (which quotes an unnamed "insider'), the debate within Ford is whether to discontinue the Fusion, or bring out another generation as a more upscale model that will sell in smaller numbers, but at higher prices. Yeah this is exactly what I was expecting after the recent news/rumors going around. I'm curious whether "upscale" means they'd aim for just a more luxurious version of the current package, which complicates the Lincoln situation unless it too is about to have some pretty big changes, or if they'll cue off Kia and go for more appeal to enthusiast drivers. I think lower volume, higher-profit vehicles aimed at enthusiasts might do pretty well in an age where the high-volume, "car as appliance" crowd is flocking to EVs and crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Fusion should be selling at 250K so even if it drops by 50% that’s still 125K per year. Nothing to sneeze at. And at pretty high ATPs to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Fusion should be selling at 250K so even if it drops by 50% thats still 125K per year. Nothing to sneeze at. And at pretty high ATPs to boot. Makes me wonder if its really so cheap in China that its not worth building both in Hermosillo. Unless they have other plans for that plant none of us are aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 You have to sell what the customer wants to buy and today that is SUVs/CUVs and pickups. What Ford really needs to be is NIMBLE ! Quick to change to a new vehicle when demand changes. I don't understand what happened under Mark Fields watch, but Ford certainly is NOT nimble today ! Why in the hell is it taking so long for the Ranger and Bronco to come out. In my book, they are at least 1 full model year late. I don't want to point fingers, but I wonder if FoA was overwhelmed by the task of meeting US crash standards. Most people don't know it, but the Transit was over a year late for that very reason. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weiweishen Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 US is the largest oil producer in the world now. Chinese Economy is slowing down. Russia and Saudi don't want to loss their market share in oil market. Supply of oil is surpass the demanding now. This situation will last for a while. We are energy independent now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grbeck Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) I hope that Ford keeps the Fusion. It makes sense for the Taurus (and the Fiesta) to go away. The Fusion is still viable, and, if done right, a new generation can pick up any slack left by the phase-out of the Taurus. Perhaps Hackett is trying to light a fire under the people responsible for the Fusion - "The market is changing, so if you want this car to survive, we've got to start thinking outside the box. A simple revamp of the current model, with the same pricing and market positioning, isn't going to cut it over the long term." Edited January 17, 2018 by grbeck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I heard all this same arguments before...we have the pinto for efficient driving..for profit we have the ltd...people are going over to honda, yota's just like i seen happen in 74...the current policy of the furniture guy us going to bite many in the ass.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 No need to get all worked up until they actually start killing things. And you didn’t “seen it happen in 74”, you SAW it happen in 74. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 And part 3 (with a money quote): A very telling comment from Farley here, this sounds like a pivot initiated by Hackett (my bolding): Full article: http://europe.autonews.com/article/20180117/ANE/180119733/ford-will-launch-3-evs-in-europe-scale-back-on-passenger-cars?cciid=email-ane-daily Well that's interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Henry Ford There's some debate about whether Henry Ford actually said that. Both William Clay (Bill) Ford and Alan Mulally mentioned the quote in 2006 though. It was in the context of Ford having to figure out what people want before they know it, and understanding that whatever customers say they want now won't help Ford survive in the future. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/07/28/ford-faster-horse/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 get ready for a mileage tax if BEVs become the flavor of the month...have to re-coup all that lost Gas tax money somehow...personally I don't think I will ever be truly sold on pure electric...I truly think Hybrids are a way better compromise.... . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 get ready for a mileage tax if BEVs become the flavor of the month...have to re-coup all that lost Gas tax money somehow. Oregon currently has a road usage charge program based on vehicle miles traveled. It's voluntary and open to any registered motor vehicle owners in Oregon, doesn't matter whether gasoline, diesel, hybrid, or pure electric. Participants get a refund on any motor fuel taxes they pay in Oregon. http://www.myorego.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 get ready for a mileage tax if BEVs become the flavor of the month...have to re-coup all that lost Gas tax money somehow...personally I don't think I will ever be truly sold on pure electric...I truly think Hybrids are a way better compromise.... . I agree, but I think plug in hybrid is a better solution than a regular hybrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
630land Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 "I don't see them dropping Fusion" just like "I'm not getting in a life boat, I'm staying on the Titanic" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tico Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Not really: escape_MPG.png Explorer_MPG.png Difference between todays Escape and Explorer is roughly $400-500 a year in favor of the newer models vs the old ones when it comes to filling them up. But the real question if gas goes to $4.50 a gallon will be, does the sedan offer enough of an MPG advantage to consider it over an CUV? So you should be comparing Escape to Focus, Edge to Fusion, etc. So how much better would the MPG have to be, assuming gas @ $4.50 to $5.00, to make you reconsider an Escape and look at a sedan again? for example Escape 20 / 27 vs Fusion 23 / 34. Not a huge difference but if someone has the numbers for the focus it will make the Escape look much worse. The other question is how high does gas have to do to make you buy the sedan just to get 5 or 6 MPG better? This is all hypothetical of course until gas actaully does get close to $4.00. I think even $3.25 will not change buying patterns that much. Edited January 17, 2018 by Tico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Oregon currently has a road usage charge program based on vehicle miles traveled. It's voluntary and open to any registered motor vehicle owners in Oregon, doesn't matter whether gasoline, diesel, hybrid, or pure electric. Participants get a refund on any motor fuel taxes they pay in Oregon. http://www.myorego.org/ Yup. ODOT is pushing for it to become law and replace the states gas tax... The state passed a massive vehicle / toll tax transportation package last year that is headed towards the state supreme court over the states authority to create the taxes they did... if it gets overturned the state will likely do what ODOT is asking and force a mileage tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 But the real question if gas goes to $4.50 a gallon will be, does the sedan offer enough of an MPG advantage to consider it over an CUV? So you should be comparing Escape to Focus, Edge to Fusion, etc. So how much better would the MPG have to be, assuming gas @ $4.50 to $5.00, to make you reconsider an Escape and look at a sedan again? for example Escape 20 / 27 vs Fusion 23 / 34. Not a huge difference but if someone has the numbers for the focus it will make the Escape look much worse. The other question is how high does gas have to do to make you buy the sedan just to get 5 or 6 MPG better? This is all hypothetical of course until gas actaully does get close to $4.00. I think even $3.25 will not change buying patterns that much. Focus is like 29/38 or something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 You’re missing the point that a lot of people still prefer cars - at least compact and mid sized cars. The market is only down 20% and I just don’t see it continuing to drop 20% per year. Guess we’ll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Personally I think they should do Focus and Fusion on C3 just to be safe. If sales drop they can shift production to utilities. If they don’t they have a fresh viable product to sell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 But the real question if gas goes to $4.50 a gallon will be, does the sedan offer enough of an MPG advantage to consider it over an CUV? So you should be comparing Escape to Focus, Edge to Fusion, etc. So how much better would the MPG have to be, assuming gas @ $4.50 to $5.00, to make you reconsider an Escape and look at a sedan again? for example Escape 20 / 27 vs Fusion 23 / 34. Not a huge difference but if someone has the numbers for the focus it will make the Escape look much worse. The other question is how high does gas have to do to make you buy the sedan just to get 5 or 6 MPG better? This is all hypothetical of course until gas actaully does get close to $4.00. I think even $3.25 will not change buying patterns that much. The difference if your paying $4.50 a gallon for gas for 25 vs 30 MPG is about $360 bucks a year. It goes down to $257 between 30 to 35 MPG. Its about $400 vs FWD Escape 1.5L vs a 1.0L Focus if you want to be all out MPG with both cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Ford would be crazy to discontinue the Fusion. imho, big difference between cancelling a Nameplate *and* model VS keeping the Name & just killing the old platform Makes me wonder if its really so cheap in China that its not worth building both in Hermosillo. Unless they have other plans for that plant none of us are aware of. does anyone know anyone who knows what's gonna happen at Hermosillo *AND* can talk about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2b2 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 (edited) Personally I think they should do Focus and Fusion on C3 just to be safe. If sales drop they can shift production to utilities. If they don’t they have a fresh viable product to sell. I'm imagining a somewhat stretched Focusion (plus-size) above the ng.Focus we've seen wrapped & maybe the Fiesta label used on it's shorter hatch (minus-size)... ...so those 3 could be in same plant / just one platform and most/all (mainly?) in microscopically-raised Active variants + maybe a largish-midsizer Thunderbird (on "Lincoln's" cD6 ) Edited January 18, 2018 by 2b2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooter Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 If they stretch too much the hatchbacks are gone..i think the fusion would look stupid with a hatchback... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rperez817 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 If they stretch too much the hatchbacks are gone..i think the fusion would look stupid with a hatchback... Fusion/Mondeo hatchback looks fine to me. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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