silvrsvt Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Well with everything pointing that CD6 will be a thing with RWD/AWD-I'm assuming Ford is going to further shrink its platform lineup over the next 5 years: B Car- Ecosport/Fiesta/Figo/Freestyle/Transit Express (not sure what its called) C Car- Focus/Escape/Kuga/Transit Connect/Lincoln MKC/Short C CUV (Ecosport replacement for the West/China) LWB C Car- Possible replacement for Fusion/Edge/Nautilus? CD6- Mustang/MKZ/Continental/Explorer/Aviator/Lincoln Coupe/Convertible/l/NG Nautilus?/Thunderbird? SWB variant would be underpin the Mustang and MKZ T6- Ranger, Bronco, Everest T2-F-150/Expedition Transit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) Well with everything pointing that CD6 will be a thing with RWD/AWD-I'm assuming Ford is going to further shrink its platform lineup over the next 5 years: B Car- Ecosport/Fiesta/Figo/Freestyle/Transit Express (not sure what its called) C Car- Focus/Escape/Kuga/Transit Connect/Lincoln MKC/Short C CUV (Ecosport replacement for the West/China) LWB C Car- Possible replacement for Fusion/Edge/Nautilus? CD6- Mustang/MKZ/Continental/Explorer/Aviator/Lincoln Coupe/Convertible/l/NG Nautilus?/Thunderbird? SWB variant would be underpin the Mustang and MKZ T6- Ranger, Bronco, Everest T2-F-150/Expedition Transit Will be 3 for cars, value small (B,C) FWD for emerging markets/low cost models, Standard FWD/AWD for (B,C,D) and High FWD/RWD/AWD for (C,D,E) Edited January 31, 2018 by jasonj80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 (edited) BEV platform is unaccounted for in the OP. And also missing existing JMC and Yusheng models, and whatever the new Zyote-Ford entity is supposed to be making. "Small" platform: Fiesta Figo/Ka Transit Courier EcoSport TBD "B+" sedan for China, Russia, India, South America TBD subcompact pickup truck for South America (maybe part of Transit Courier replacement program) "Transverse engine" platform: Focus Escort Transit Connect "small C" CUV Yusheng S330 (small C size, current platform unknown but uses Ford engine and transmissions) Escape/Kuga TBD Kuga sized Yuseng CUV MKC TBD compact pickup truck (maybe part of Transit Connect replacement program) Mondeo/Fusion if it sticks around Taurus in China Edge Nautilus "Longitude engine" platform: Explorer Aviator Continental Mustang "BEV" platform: compact CUV midsize CUV compact or midsize sedan compact van (the self-driving uber mobile) and probably a few more we don't even know about T6 platform: Ranger Bronco Everest JMC Boarding (currently a licensed copy of Isuzu pickup from the 1990s that will probably have Ford platform replacement at some point) JMC Yuhu/Vigus (JDP and I think this is currently using the previous gen Ford/Mazda Ranger platform so likely will migrate to T6 eventually, it uses current Ford engine and transmissions) Yusheng 350 (SUV based on Yuhu) Troller T4? T2 platform: F-series Expedition Navigator LCV platform: Transit Custom Transit Transit Classic (3rd gen Transit) JMC Teshun (2nd gen Transit) Medium duty conventional: E-series F-53 F-59 F-650/750 Medium duty cabover: JMC Shunda JMC Kaiyun JMC Kairui Classic JMC Kairui 800 Note: all 4 JMC cabover models are different generation of Isuzu N-series produced under license, with a mix of Isuzu or Ford sourced diesel engines. I would assume that in the long run, these will have Ford platform replacements. Heavy duty: Otosan Cargo JMC Weilong Edited February 1, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I think MKZ replacement and Nautilus will also be on the RWD platform too. I could see edge going either way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) I think MKZ replacement and Nautilus will also be on the RWD platform too. I could see edge going either way. I'm not sure there will be a MKZ replacement per se. The BEV sedan I had on the list above could be a Lincoln, which will cover whatever ground is left open by not having a MKZ around. Nautilus is too early to say... One thing we have to remember is that we don't know if Ford has any plans to have multiple CD6 plants and assembly locations. Nautilus may have to stay paired with Edge if Ford wants to build it in China, which seems likely. Unless of course Ford decides to build Explorer in China. Then all bets are off. Edited February 1, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I think MKZ replacement and Nautilus will also be on the RWD platform too. I could see edge going either way. I think they’ll both move to CD6 eventually because of the better battery packaging it’s expected to have to support plug in hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I'm not sure there will be a MKZ replacement per se. The BEV sedan I had on the list above could be a Lincoln, which will cover whatever ground is left open by not having a MKZ around. Nautilus is too early to say... One thing we have to remember is that we don't know if Ford has any plans to have multiple CD6 plants and assembly locations. Nautilus may have to stay paired with Edge if Ford wants to build it in China, which seems likely. Unless of course Ford decides to build Explorer in China. Then all bets are off. I somewhat see your point about multiple locations, but isnt the entire point of developing a modular platform to produce different variants of the same general platform architecture as needed? I.e. you develop one core architecture (well architecture blocks) and you use whichever pieces at whatever factory where appropriate. In other words, the CD6 program contains blocks A, B, C, D, E, F. Vehicle 1 uses blocks A and E, produced at factory 1, while vehicle 2 at factory 2 uses blocks B and D. Vehicle 3 uses C and F at factory 3. In that scenario, all 3 vehicles are using the CD6 architecture (with multiple factories producing CD6), but each vehicle uses different blocks of CD6 depending on size, use, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) You are missing the point... it's not about the platform's flexibility but the inflexible nature of capital investment required to convert or build new plants to build that platform. If CD6 is modular like Audi's MLB, then it still requires its own assembly line. It can't mix with non CD6... at least not without sacrificing some of the simplicity built into a modular design and assembly system. In the Audi example, VW doesn't mix MLB (longitude) with MQB (transverse) assembly because they are still two distinct systems. Their worldwide manufacturing is thus divided into 2 worlds... one network of plants builds MQB vehicles (e.g. Tennessee, Pueblo Mexico, Wolfsburg Germany etc), and the other network builds MLB vehicles (e.g Ingolstat Germany, Bratislava Slovakia etc) So if you agree that CD6 is longitude and C3 is transverse for Ford, then you need to look at what volume is Ford trying to achieve with each program because they likely won't want a mix assembly line to build both under the same roof. We know Chicago is destined for CD6. Flat Rock is a possible 2nd location. Adding a 3rd CD6 plant besides Chicago and Flat Rock will cost probably several hundred million dollars in capital investment. So Ford will need to build more than say 50k Nautilus in China. Ford will probably need at least 500k in volume to add that third CD6 assembly location. Where can Ford find that kind of volume? It probably needs to build all the CD6 vehicles in that plant. So it's either all or nothing... the only way Nautilus becomes CD6 is if Ford commits to building Explorer (and probably Continental and Mustang) in China. But that will necessarily impact utilization of Chicago and probably force Flat Rock out of CD6 picture. As of right now, there is no sign that Ford is willing to make that investment to produce CD6 in China. This could all change of course... for example, if we start seeing rumors that Ford is not going to build Mustang or Continental in Flat Rock anymore. That could be a clue that they are moving to China and/or Chicago. In which case, the odds of Nautilus (and Edge for that matter) being CD6 increases exponentially because Ford will need more models on CD6 to justify the plant investment. Edited February 1, 2018 by bzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Im betting Oakville will go to CD6 too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 You are missing the point... it's not about the platform's flexibility but the inflexible nature of capital investment required to convert or build new plants to build that platform. If CD6 is modular like Audi's MLB, then it still requires its own assembly line. It can't mix with non CD6... at least not without sacrificing some of the simplicity built into a modular design and assembly system. In the Audi example, VW doesn't mix MLB (longitude) with MQB (transverse) assembly because they are still two distinct systems. Their worldwide manufacturing is thus divided into 2 worlds... one network of plants builds MQB vehicles (e.g. Tennessee, Pueblo Mexico, Wolfsburg Germany etc), and the other network builds MLB vehicles (e.g Ingolstat Germany, Bratislava Slovakia etc) So if you agree that CD6 is longitude and C3 is transverse for Ford, then you need to look at what volume is Ford trying to achieve with each program because they likely won't want a mix assembly line to build both under the same roof. We know Chicago is destined for CD6. Flat Rock is a possible 2nd location. Adding a 3rd CD6 plant besides Chicago and Flat Rock will cost probably several hundred million dollars in capital investment. So Ford will need to build more than say 50k Nautilus in China. Ford will probably need at least 500k in volume to add that third CD6 assembly location. Where can Ford find that kind of volume? It probably needs to build all the CD6 vehicles in that plant. So it's either all or nothing... the only way Nautilus becomes CD6 is if Ford commits to building Explorer (and probably Continental and Mustang) in China. But that will necessarily impact utilization of Chicago and probably force Flat Rock out of CD6 picture. As of right now, there is no sign that Ford is willing to make that investment to produce CD6 in China. This could all change of course... for example, if we start seeing rumors that Ford is not going to build Mustang or Continental in Flat Rock anymore. That could be a clue that they are moving to China and/or Chicago. In which case, the odds of Nautilus (and Edge for that matter) being CD6 increases exponentially because Ford will need more models on CD6 to justify the plant investment. If you have half the lineup on one platform, obviously you're going to need several production sites for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Im betting Oakville will go to CD6 too I think eventually Flat Rock, Chicago and Oakville all go CD6 with different products. Louisville, Hermosillo and Cuatitlan go C3 and BEVs are in Flat Rock. Ranger/Bronco/Everest in MAP plus F series and Transit where they are now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 BEVs will be one of the Mexico plants. That new building in Flat Rock is for autonomous vehicles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Forgot they changed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 BEVs will be one of the Mexico plants. That new building in Flat Rock is for autonomous vehicles. Cuautitlan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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