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Ford January 2018 Sales Down 6.6%; Lincoln Sales Plummet 27%

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I thought the cloth felt premium, and the dash is much more "civilized" than the industrial-looking dash of the F-150. In case you're wondering, I do have sour grapes over the price increase. These things are already overpriced to begin with. Some of us just want a truck with a wagon body. Now it's become some kind of status symbol. It's so absurd and unnatural for there to be a sizable market for $50-$80k trucks and SUVs. This wouldn't be possible without middle class debtors.

 

I completely agree. The Expedition has always been the superior choice for hauling cargo and people. And towing. It can do just about everything. Unfortunately, none of that has translated into more sales and even market dominance. It's truly an underappreciated vehicle.

 

I agree pricing has gotten crazy, but the GM SUVs are the same price! And they sell like gangbusters.

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I agree pricing has gotten crazy, but the GM SUVs are the same price! And they sell like gangbusters.

 

 

People bitch about pricing then buy something they can actually afford-be it something smaller/less equipped or used.

 

High pricing doesn't seem to be hurting other products like the F-150.

 

As long as credit is "cheap" then people will buy...if it creeps up...well that should be interesting for the industry as a whole.

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OMG!!!!!!!! I am truly amazed at how poor sales are for Cadillac. Now, it's been a while since I've seen the numbers but looked today. How much did Caddy spend on copying BMW and what has it amounted to? WOW! Just Wow! If it weren't for the XTS (their MKS) and XT5, there would virtually be no sales. So Cadillac is selling 4 cars (one of which has to be all most all fleet in the XTS) with a January 2018 sales of 3665. Meanwhile Lincoln has 2 cars and sells more more than 50% of what Cadillac sells without a super fleet car like the XTS. I am going to call my shot here. Lincoln will start surpassing Cadillac in monthly sales in the end of 2018. Especially with the Nautilus and the Navi getting in the mix.

 

GM was able to go bankrupt and wipe away all that debt they spent in the 4.3 billion (minimum) in trying to chase BMW. They put the majority of their eggs in the car basket. While I won't argue they are good cars, their looks are pretty polarizing (fugly in my book). Meanwhile Ford has spent a fraction of that on Lincoln and has employed a more pragmatic approach. Slow and steady in investment, starting with the building blocks (dealers, service, and experience) all while producing cars, CUV/SUV that people like.

 

What are we learning here? People who want a BMW or Mercedes are going to buy them, not an impostor. Americans do love CUV/SUV's. Right now, Lincoln is in a much better position than Cadillac in having 3 (soon to be 4 with the Aviator and I'm not including MKT) CUV/SUV's. Lincoln has it's work cut out for them but there seems to be a window to overtake Cadillac in sales all for a fraction of the cost spent.

 

 

 

EDIT: Removed chart that looked much better in post prior to posting.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/02/general-motors-january-2018-sales-figures-numbers-results-united-states/#ixzz55xwjyADP

Edited by jcartwright99

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OMG!!!!!!!! I am truly amazed at how poor sales are for Cadillac. Now, it's been a while since I've seen the numbers but looked today. How much did Caddy spend on copying BMW and what has it amounted to? WOW! Just Wow! If it weren't for the XTS (their MKS) and XT5, there would virtually be no sales. So Cadillac is selling 4 cars (one of which has to be all most all fleet in the XTS) with a January 2018 sales of 3665. Meanwhile Lincoln has 2 cars and sells more more than 50% of what Cadillac sells without a super fleet car like the XTS. I am going to call my shot here. Lincoln will start surpassing Cadillac in monthly sales in the end of 2018. Especially with the Nautilus and the Navi getting in the mix.

 

GM was able to go bankrupt and wipe away all that debt they spent in the 4.3 billion (minimum) in trying to chase BMW. They put the majority of their eggs in the car basket. While I won't argue they are good cars, their looks are pretty polarizing (fugly in my book). Meanwhile Ford has spent a fraction of that on Lincoln and has employed a more pragmatic approach. Slow and steady in investment, starting with the building blocks (dealers, service, and experience) all while producing cars, CUV/SUV that people like.

 

What are we learning here? People who want a BMW or Mercedes are going to buy them, not an impostor. Americans do love CUV/SUV's. Right now, Lincoln is in a much better position than Cadillac in having 3 (soon to be 4 with the Aviator and I'm not including MKT) CUV/SUV's. Lincoln has it's work cut out for them but there seems to be a window to overtake Cadillac in sales all for a fraction of the cost spent.

 

 

 

EDIT: Removed chart that looked much better in post prior to posting.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/02/general-motors-january-2018-sales-figures-numbers-results-united-states/#ixzz55xwjyADP

 

I don't know if I see that happening. They may creep closer, but we'll see.

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OMG!!!!!!!! I am truly amazed at how poor sales are for Cadillac. Now, it's been a while since I've seen the numbers but looked today. How much did Caddy spend on copying BMW and what has it amounted to? WOW! Just Wow! If it weren't for the XTS (their MKS) and XT5, there would virtually be no sales. So Cadillac is selling 4 cars (one of which has to be all most all fleet in the XTS) with a January 2018 sales of 3665. Meanwhile Lincoln has 2 cars and sells more more than 50% of what Cadillac sells without a super fleet car like the XTS. I am going to call my shot here. Lincoln will start surpassing Cadillac in monthly sales in the end of 2018. Especially with the Nautilus and the Navi getting in the mix.

 

GM was able to go bankrupt and wipe away all that debt they spent in the 4.3 billion (minimum) in trying to chase BMW. They put the majority of their eggs in the car basket. While I won't argue they are good cars, their looks are pretty polarizing (fugly in my book). Meanwhile Ford has spent a fraction of that on Lincoln and has employed a more pragmatic approach. Slow and steady in investment, starting with the building blocks (dealers, service, and experience) all while producing cars, CUV/SUV that people like.

 

What are we learning here? People who want a BMW or Mercedes are going to buy them, not an impostor. Americans do love CUV/SUV's. Right now, Lincoln is in a much better position than Cadillac in having 3 (soon to be 4 with the Aviator and I'm not including MKT) CUV/SUV's. Lincoln has it's work cut out for them but there seems to be a window to overtake Cadillac in sales all for a fraction of the cost spent.

 

 

 

EDIT: Removed chart that looked much better in post prior to posting.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/02/general-motors-january-2018-sales-figures-numbers-results-united-states/#ixzz55xwjyADP

 

The XT4 will help Cadillac this fall, and Cadillac is getting an SUV between the XT5 and Escalade. Though the Aviator will probably beat it to market by a year. Roomer is the NG Escalade has been delayed by 6-8 months to allow for a IRS design, pushing for a 2020CY launch. If they launch that late the current Navigator will be getting its MCE shortly after the launch.

 

GM (And Hyundai with the Genesis launch) totally missed the switch to CUVs and it has cost them dearly. The Hybrid MKC replacement and hybrid Aviator should do wonders for Lincoln on the west coast.

 

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OMG!!!!!!!! I am truly amazed at how poor sales are for Cadillac. Now, it's been a while since I've seen the numbers but looked today. How much did Caddy spend on copying BMW and what has it amounted to? WOW! Just Wow! If it weren't for the XTS (their MKS) and XT5, there would virtually be no sales. So Cadillac is selling 4 cars (one of which has to be all most all fleet in the XTS) with a January 2018 sales of 3665. Meanwhile Lincoln has 2 cars and sells more more than 50% of what Cadillac sells without a super fleet car like the XTS. I am going to call my shot here. Lincoln will start surpassing Cadillac in monthly sales in the end of 2018. Especially with the Nautilus and the Navi getting in the mix.

 

GM was able to go bankrupt and wipe away all that debt they spent in the 4.3 billion (minimum) in trying to chase BMW.....

 

 

 

EDIT: Removed chart that looked much better in post prior to posting.

Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/02/general-motors-january-2018-sales-figures-numbers-results-united-states/#ixzz55xwjyADP

Lincoln still don't look hot with 4 utilitys bearly match XT5 in sales, Cadillac XT4 and XT6 should hit lots within 18 months topped off with the ttv8 Escalade. The XTS is RIP in that time frame with the updated CT6 would probably take it's place and CT8 as the flagship.

 

Making compromised garbage is what American luxury makers in trouble in the 1st place, competing in the market place isn't "chasing" someone otherwise the Japanese got the wrong ideal with the Europeans.

Edited by Fgts

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The XT4 will help Cadillac this fall, and Cadillac is getting an SUV between the XT5 and Escalade. Though the Aviator will probably beat it to market by a year. Roomer is the NG Escalade has been delayed by 6-8 months to allow for a IRS design, pushing for a 2020CY launch. If they launch that late the current Navigator will be getting its MCE shortly after the launch.

 

GM (And Hyundai with the Genesis launch) totally missed the switch to CUVs and it has cost them dearly. The Hybrid MKC replacement and hybrid Aviator should do wonders for Lincoln on the west coast.

 

 

Unfortunately, they needed that yesterday.

 

Lincoln still don't look hot with 4 utilitys bearly match XT5 in sales, Cadillac XT4 and XT6 should hit lots within 18 months topped off with the ttv8 Escalade. The XTS is RIP in that time frame with the updated CT6 would probably take it's place and CT8 as the flagship.

 

Making compromised garbage is what American luxury buyers in trouble in the 1st place, competing in the market place isn't "chasing" someone otherwise the Japanese got the wrong ideal with the Europeans.

 

I'm guessing Lincoln's lease rates aren't competitive.

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They're certainly not putting any cash on the hood. $0 rebates on Continental. $1K on MkX. Didn't check but I assume MKC is also $1K.

 

XT5 - $5K rebate on 2017s , $4K rebate on 2018s (for previous owners, $2K otherwise).

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They're certainly not putting any cash on the hood. $0 rebates on Continental. $1K on MkX. Didn't check but I assume MKC is also $1K.

 

XT5 - $5K rebate on 2017s , $4K rebate on 2018s (for previous owners, $2K otherwise).

 

That's crazy. I wonder why they've cut incentives so much. I get that it can help ATPs/less incentive spending, but at a certain point, you're not moving enough metal to make it worth it, no?

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That's crazy. I wonder why they've cut incentives so much. I get that it can help ATPs/less incentive spending, but at a certain point, you're not moving enough metal to make it worth it, no?

 

Hard to say where the break even point is. Sales were doing ok until last month - maybe that's the result of dropping the incentives and they'll adjust going forward. Or maybe this is the new game plan. Not sure.

 

They haven't had huge incentives the last 2 years anyway outside of some older models. I think we got $1700 on our MKX 2 years ago on X plan.

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Hard to say where the break even point is. Sales were doing ok until last month - maybe that's the result of dropping the incentives and they'll adjust going forward. Or maybe this is the new game plan. Not sure.

 

They haven't had huge incentives the last 2 years anyway outside of some older models. I think we got $1700 on our MKX 2 years ago on X plan.

 

Sorry, guess I meant "cut" in the sense of compared to the competition, their incentives are low, thus, many people will go down the street to get a better deal.

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Sorry, guess I meant "cut" in the sense of compared to the competition, their incentives are low, thus, many people will go down the street to get a better deal.

 

That was my point also. If they're only offering $1K or less incentives and the competition is offering more/better lease deals then sales will definitely suffer.

 

I was addressing whether that was good or bad. It's bad for dealers, but if Ford is making an extra $2K on each vehicle by reducing incentives, that may make up the difference on the volume side.

 

Conversely - adding huge incentives to increase sales might reduce profits.

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Toyota consistently has 'volume sales', 'profitability' and a high stock price. Yes, it can all be done - just apparently not by Ford.

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Toyota consistently has 'volume sales', 'profitability' and a high stock price. Yes, it can all be done - just apparently not by Ford.

 

Well, when they've just redesigned their platforms and underpinnings for the first time in 20 years, that has to help profitability.

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Well, when they've just redesigned their platforms and underpinnings for the first time in 20 years, that has to help profitability.

I'm no fan of Toyota, but I can clearly see when my rival is blowing by me. They have the customer loyalty to sell anything they make - updated or not. They sold gobs of Camry's and other cars last year too!

 

Maybe the new corporate tax break will help level the playing field. At the rate Ford capitalizes on opportunities, we might see something in 5 years.

Edited by Kev-Mo

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Caddy XT8 is not gonna happen. With their RWD cars tanking, imagine how bad Lutz's idea of new Pontiacs would have done. "They look boring" is what old time muscle car fans would said. That's why the new GTO bombed.

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I'm no fan of Toyota, but I can clearly see when my rival is blowing by me. They have the customer loyalty to sell anything they make - updated or not. They sold gobs of Camry's and other cars last year too!

 

Maybe the new corporate tax break will help level the playing field. At the rate Ford capitalizes on opportunities, we might see something in 5 years.

 

You mentioned profitability. If you don't change what you're building for 20 years, you don't have to pay to redevelop whatever that item is. Obviously they've redesigned their cars multiple times in there, but if a large chunk of platform development isn't needed/used, that's money that can either be used elsewhere and/or not spent, meaning higher profitability. Couple that with Japanese "favorability" efforts, and it's not hard to see why they're so profitable in that arena while others aren't.

 

I agree with the customer loyalty thing though, and I think you're underestimating the affect that having the "new" Camry or Accord has on their buyer base. Ford hasn't built up that loyalty, because every time they start to get there, they pull the plug and slide backwards again. Fusion was doing great - was new for '06, got a significant update in '10, and all new for '13, and sales were shooting up, as buyers liked the product and it was continually being improved. Now, under the guise of "the market is down", they went into cruise control on it, and gave it a mild update that doesn't cause people to come look at the new one. Now, sales may have declined regardless, as there IS a shift away from cars, but numbers wouldn't be down as drastically, and you'd still be building that reputation and ultimately long-term generating repeat buyers.

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Toyota consistently has 'volume sales', 'profitability' and a high stock price. Yes, it can all be done - just apparently not by Ford.

 

A lot of that in recent years was the result of favorable currency exchange rates. While they've been consistently profitable, their margins have typically been lower in the US than Ford and GM.

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Toyota and all don't have the high fixed and legacy costs, unfortunately for Ford.

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Toyota and all don't have the high fixed and legacy costs, unfortunately for Ford.

 

It also helps when you build reliable vehicles and the government where your headquarters is located will manipulate their currency to favor foreign sales.

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Toyota and all don't have the high fixed and legacy costs, unfortunately for Ford.

Building quality ahead of quantity goes a long way, something that none of the American companies have ever really done. Theyve made strides but all 3 have taken steps backwards in the last 5-10 years.

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Toyota consistently has 'volume sales', 'profitability' and a high stock price. Yes, it can all be done - just apparently not by Ford.

Ford leads Toyota in quarterly North American profits, it's about $1.9 Billion to 500 million.

The big difference in sales profile is F Series and full sized SUVs.......Toyota truck sales are small in contrast.

 

The underlying income from cars and small to mid sized SUVs is thusly, $400-500 million a quarter.

No wonder Ford is in no hurry to spend billions renewing products with much smaller returns

but by all means, bring new Explorer, Aviator and Escape to maximize profits.

 

Just Observation - Not justification

Edited by jpd80

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Building quality ahead of quantity goes a long way, something that none of the American companies have ever really done. Theyve made strides but all 3 have taken steps backwards in the last 5-10 years.

I spent a week in late 80's with edward deming seminar in toledo....the shit going on at the heep plant then made for some awesome conversations over brews at night..still even then heeps were still bought enmasse..nobody gave a dam as long as the dumped the square headlights....heeps can be POS and they will still sell..

Edited by snooter

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What is the deal with the Expedition? Something tells me they cant make enough. All hot selling vehicles on 1 line does not sound like a good plan to me.

I was down to my Ford dealer today. My salesman told me the Expeditions are selling just about as fast as they hit the ground. They had a Platinum that was sold in their detail shop and my salesman went up to get it so I could have a look. I've gotta say the interior is really nice and so much more modern looking than the 16 I had. He suggested I wait a while because the incentives aren't too high yet and should be better once the pipeline fills up.

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