MKX1960 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 From viewing the videos, “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir said. The police have not released the videos. https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php One detail the lawyers will likely use is the car was traveling 3 MPH over the speed limit. I thought these cars were supposed to be programmed to obey all rules of the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcartwright99 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 From viewing the videos, “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir said. The police have not released the videos. https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php This accident may have been unavoidable to a person driving. My question isn't the autonomous car supposed to be able to see things out of the line of sight? Should it not be able to detect and anticipate something crossing it's path? I am no expert but all the propaganda that I've seen for autonomous systems is that it can see in the dark and anticipate a problem BEFORE it occurs. Maybe these systems are half baked right now and need another 10 years or so to be perfected. Uber would have no reason to put something unsafe on the road, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 One detail the lawyers will likely use is the car was traveling 3 MPH over the speed limit. I thought these cars were supposed to be programmed to obey all rules of the road? The road apparently had different speed limits marked for direction of travel (35 or 45), if the vehicle is reading signs -- which is very common and got faulty information based on something the local DOT put up it could put cause on the local DOT. Vehicles are only as smart as the data provided to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 This accident may have been unavoidable to a person driving. My question isn't the autonomous car supposed to be able to see things out of the line of sight? Should it not be able to detect and anticipate something crossing it's path? I am no expert but all the propaganda that I've seen for autonomous systems is that it can see in the dark and anticipate a problem BEFORE it occurs. Maybe these systems are half baked right now and need another 10 years or so to be perfected. Uber would have no reason to put something unsafe on the road, right? It is impossible to tell the future. If it thought every person on the sidewalk may dart out in front of it, it would be parked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonj80 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 This accident may have been unavoidable to a person driving. My question isn't the autonomous car supposed to be able to see things out of the line of sight? Should it not be able to detect and anticipate something crossing it's path? I am no expert but all the propaganda that I've seen for autonomous systems is that it can see in the dark and anticipate a problem BEFORE it occurs. Maybe these systems are half baked right now and need another 10 years or so to be perfected. Uber would have no reason to put something unsafe on the road, right? The problem is if the car always will stop pedestrians will just do what ever they want. The issue with self driving currently is that they follow the laws and leave proper distance. When traffic is backed up on Oakwood or Southfield freeway and you see one of the Argo cars that is the one you know can speed past everyone and get infront of. I'm also not the only one who has figured this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 How would the vehicle know the difference between a parked car on the side of the road or a pedestrian on the sidewalk or a trash can? It can sense something there but it doesn’t know that it’s about to dart out in front of it. Sometimes there just isn’t time for anything to react, human or machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoonerLS Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) Sometimes there just isnt time for anything to react, human or machine. I had that experience just a few weeks ago. I was doing about 25mph in a downtown area at night when a cat darted out in front of me. I had almost enough time to get my foot off the gas before it went under my tire. Even if I could've gotten my foot onto the brake pedal, there's no way the truck could've stopped in time; there just wasn't enough time available. Edited March 20, 2018 by SoonerLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnostic Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 At a recent real-time Java conference, the participants were given an awkward question to answer: "If you had just boarded an airliner and discovered that your team of programmers had been responsible for the flight control software, how many of you would disembark immediately?" Among the forest of raised hands only one man sat motionless. When asked what he would do, he replied that he would be quite content to stay aboard. With his team's software, he said, the plane was unlikely to even taxi as far as the runway, let alone take off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY93SHO Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) The person who got hit is at fault, not the driver or the car. If you run out in front of a car and they don’t have time to stop, it’s your fault. Period. End of story. The Law of Physics over rules the Law of Man. One of my high school classmates was drunk and got hit by a train. Was it the trains fault? His excuse was, " I could hear it but I couldn't see it. If you'd ever seen his glasses you'd understand that statement. Edited March 21, 2018 by MY93SHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 This whole lack of personal accountability and responsibility drives me insane. It must be somebody else’s fault. My daughter got fired from a good job in a doctor’s office after a few months for what was most likely a personal issue between the female office manager and 2 other girls she worked with. However she had made at least 2 mistakes during that time and probably a few others. She wanted to blame the social politics but I told her that she needed to acknowledge that she had made mistakes. And even with the office politics she could have made herself such a good and valuable employee that they would not have been able to fire her even with the social politics. I hope she learned something from that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I try to beat personal responsibility into my kids' heads every freaking day! It's so damn difficult when everyone around wants to do nothing but find somebody else to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I try to beat personal responsibility into my kids' heads every freaking day! It's so damn difficult when everyone around wants to do nothing but find somebody else to blame. My kids are 29 & 32. Even today if you say; "For every action, there is a...." they respond with "...reaction, and your decisions can determine whether that is good or bad". My daughter was an A student though out her career in school without even trying. She was a junior and asked me to come talk with her in the living room (our Come to Jesus room). She had gotten a C in Algebra. She started off with "Daddy; I know this is my fault. I did not apply myself and should have realized that I wasn't absorbing the material as well as I should have. I should have asked you for help or asked the teacher to clarify some things. I realize that I am grounded until the next report card comes out and here is my phone." I responded with "Good talk." I love that kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 My kids are 29 & 32. Even today if you say; "For every action, there is a...." they respond with "...reaction, and your decisions can determine whether that is good or bad". My daughter was an A student though out her career in school without even trying. She was a junior and asked me to come talk with her in the living room (our Come to Jesus room). She had gotten a C in Algebra. She started off with "Daddy; I know this is my fault. I did not apply myself and should have realized that I wasn't absorbing the material as well as I should have. I should have asked you for help or asked the teacher to clarify some things. I realize that I am grounded until the next report card comes out and here is my phone." I responded with "Good talk." I love that kid. My 14 year old has the grades part down, but she still hasn't figured out the "it's my fault" part yet. That's more important than grades, and it's a constant struggle. Good on you for raising a good kid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Great kids. You done good. I have a 29 yr old male who is the same way. Knows what he wants, never blames others, does whatever is necessary and actually gets mad if we try to help him sometimes. Never had to ask him about grades or anything in school. 23 yr old daughter is the complete opposite. She’s just lazy and isn’t willing to put in any extra work to do something. In high school she would fail a test then decline to retake it to improve her grade. She would say “but I studied for 2 hours”. I tried to explain to her that some people actually studied for 2 hours every day for a week before a test. She just didn’t care. She’s a lot better now but she still needs a lot of coaching. Work in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I won't even talk about my son. He's 12, and has ADHD, and has no drive at all. Then our 9 year old may be the best mix of all, though rather headstrong. Amazing how 3 kids from the same parents can be sooooo different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I won't even talk about my son. He's 12, and has ADHD, and has no drive at all. Then our 9 year old may be the best mix of all, though rather headstrong. Amazing how 3 kids from the same parents can be sooooo different. My son was diagnosed ADHD when he was 9 and exactly as you described. I couldn't understand why a seemingly intelligent young man couldn't pass a grade from 3rd through 7th. I spent thousands of dollars trying to get him righted. I used to pray every night that I could keep him out of jail when he got older. Then....puberty arrived. Apparently, everything came together for him. He went from not even trying to take a test (write his name on the test & turn it in) to making B's & C's in 8th grade. Then in high school; his first report card was all A's & B's. Graduated 17th in his class; went on to graduate Summa Cum Laude for his bachelors, and has decided to go for his Masters. He's married and has 3 kids and works as an IT manager for a national firm (he's in MO conducting training this week). There is hope....hang in there. I would have never believed what has happened was in his future. To top it off; he's a Ford guy with an Explorer, CV, Thunderbird, and a Mustang. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 My son was diagnosed ADHD when he was 9 and exactly as you described. I couldn't understand why a seemingly intelligent young man couldn't pass a grade from 3rd through 7th. I spent thousands of dollars trying to get him righted. I used to pray every night that I could keep him out of jail when he got older. Then....puberty arrived. Apparently, everything came together for him. He went from not even trying to take a test (write his name on the test & turn it in) to making B's & C's in 8th grade. Then in high school; his first report card was all A's & B's. Graduated 17th in his class; went on to graduate Summa Cum Laude for his bachelors, and has decided to go for his Masters. He's married and has 3 kids and works as an IT manager for a national firm (he's in MO conducting training this week). There is hope....hang in there. I would have never believed what has happened was in his future. To top it off; he's a Ford guy with an Explorer, CV, Thunderbird, and a Mustang. Wow, thank you for that! It gives me hope! We've also spent thousands trying to 'make him right', but we've finally realized that it's just a fact of life and who he is. We also pray that he doesn't end up in prison or dead from his impulsive actions. He's very bright and has a heart of gold, just doesn't give a flip whether he gets his test questions right or not (including leaving several blank) and doesn't think about the consequences of his actions. He'll get there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 My wife still thinks that our daughter’s big problem is that we (I) spoiled her when she was little. We (I) did but I tried to explain to her that was her personality and while we (I) may have contributed a little when she was younger, there really wasn’t much we could have done to change it. They are who they are and you just hope they grow out of it. The mere threat of punishment was enough for our son. If you told daughter to go stand in that corner for timeout, she’d go stand in a different corner. If you said don’t touch that or you’ll be grounded, she’d look right at you, grin and touch it anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
351cid Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 The mere threat of punishment was enough for our son. If you told daughter to go stand in that corner for timeout, she’d go stand in a different corner. If you said don’t touch that or you’ll be grounded, she’d look right at you, grin and touch it anyway. All I had to say to my daughter was that I was disappointed in her. My son didn't give two craps. He was going to do what he wanted no matter the consequence....and we tried it ALL. Two of his three girls are the same way. Karma...she is an evil b!tch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev-Mo Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 One of my high school classmates was drunk and got hit by a train. Was it the trains fault? His excuse was, " I could hear it but I couldn't see it. If you'd ever seen his glasses you'd understand that statement. He heard: Long Long Short Long Maybe this is the stuff they should teach in school – in addition to mile markers, the Interstate Highway numbering system, and the ability to point to North, South, East and West… Long Long Short Long – Morse Code for 'Q', signaling "Has Right of Way" The Long Long Short Long is the morse code for the letter "Q" Which back in the time where the Queen traveled by Ship in England, ships with the queen on board would do the LLSL on the horn to announce this to other ships in the harbor to get them out of the way. Whenever the queen switched to railroads, the same signal followed and the engineer would do the LLSL coming into the station to allow some space for the Queen. When the US Railroads began the old heads from England began using this as a signal and it stuck to today. And that has been some 200 years. I actually learned that from a retired old Coast Guard Officer who taught my Bare Boat Sailing Certification class many years ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) My wife still thinks that our daughter’s big problem is that we (I) spoiled her when she was little. We (I) did but I tried to explain to her that was her personality and while we (I) may have contributed a little when she was younger, there really wasn’t much we could have done to change it. They are who they are and you just hope they grow out of it. The mere threat of punishment was enough for our son. If you told daughter to go stand in that corner for timeout, she’d go stand in a different corner. If you said don’t touch that or you’ll be grounded, she’d look right at you, grin and touch it anyway. My son didn't give two craps. He was going to do what he wanted no matter the consequence....and we tried it ALL. Two of his three girls are the same way. Karma...she is an evil b!tch. Both of those are my son to a T! Ahhh, group therapy on the BOF! Edited March 21, 2018 by fordmantpw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 So much for the haughty attitude of technology being superior to humans, there are sadly, some instances where all the sensors in the world would not prevent the same thing happening again..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimm44 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) Before blaming the deceased woman who was wrong, take a look at the video from the car. The bozo driver was looking at something in his lap and not paying attention. If,he was alert she might be alive today. [url=http://www.autonews.com/article/20180321/MOBILITY/180329893/uber-self-driving-car-video-shows-operator-was-distracted-before?cciid=email-autonews-blast] Edited March 22, 2018 by Jimm44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I’m not sure I would have had time to react to that either. It does beg the question about why the sensors didn’t work like it seems they should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I’m not sure I would have had time to react to that either. It does beg the question about why the sensors didn’t work like it seems they should have. Agreed, I would have thought the sensors would have picked that up. It was coming directly into the vehicle's path perpendicularly. But then again how does the vehicle know she won't stop? And I would say 99% of drivers would have hit her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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