Lincoln “Committed” To Sedans Despite Ford’s Decision To Drop Them

[silvrsvt]

Just look at the repeat Honda and Toyota buyers.

 

The issue is they are more or less an institution to a point-when people ask out loud-what type of car do I buy-I'm pretty sure those two makes will come out of people's mouths for the uninitiated that look at buying a car like buying an refrigerator.

 

Even the Camry and Accord are being affected by CUV increasing sales.

[Fgts]

 

 

If anything that speaks to me that people are purely buying a Ford car based product purely on price-and as stated later in the article 54% of people buying a Fusion (cheap) went to other brands anyways.

So you want 45% of those people never vist a Ford dealer again?. And who said they were "cheap" buyers?, how many Platinum, Sport and Titanium owners would stay in the FMC fold?. Plus out the 54% how many would comeback to Ford if a hot sedan was in showrooms since carbuyers isn't as loyal as truckbuyers?.

 

As I said times before, One CD6 sedan/multiple models at this point would solve the sedan problem in N/A. A theoretical 2.0 EB base sedan wouldn't be as inexpensive as the current base Focus but will on-par as a base Fusion/ Focus ST and be cheaper then a base 2.0 Accord Sport.

[tbone]

 

Even the Camry and Accord are being affected by CUV increasing sales.

I dont disagree with you but Ill bet those are Honda and Toyota CUVs they are transitioning too because of their reputations, regardless whether they are considered appliances.

[akirby]

Again, you guys are not paying attention. This has been discussed repeatedly. Sedan buyers are not brand loyal and there is little to no money to be made on them right now. When it comes time for a sedan buyer to get a utility they will absolutely consider Ford if Ford has best in class offerings, and with all the hybrid and phev plans plus the new utilities they’ll be in great shape.

 

Ford left the minivan market - how did that hurt them? It didn’t.

[akirby]

It’s also been pointed out repeatedly that there should be at least one Lincoln sedan because of higher ATPs and profit margins.

[ehaase]

It’s also been pointed out repeatedly that there should be at least one Lincoln sedan because of higher ATPs and profit margins.

I disagree. Lincoln historically only makes money on tarted up Fords. There will be no Ford sedans for Lincoln to tart up, so I don't see any CD6 Lincoln sedan being profitable.

[brucelinc]

I disagree. Lincoln historically only makes money on tarted up Fords. There will be no Ford sedans for Lincoln to tart up, so I don't see any CD6 Lincoln sedan being profitable.

 

Lincoln hasn't had exactly the right platform with which to make a fully competitive sedan....until CD6. They don't need a Ford sedan on which to "tart up" as you call it. They just need the CD6 platform....which apparently has considerable flexibility.

[akirby]

Well MKZ and Continental aren’t doing so well. The CD6 platform would be shared with Explorer/Aviator/Mustang and maybe a few other products - it would not be a stand alone vehicle. Powertrains would all be shared. CD6 would allow better designs to compete with Audi, Jaguar and Lexus which should provide higher ATPs and higher profit margin but not huge volume. As a stand alone thing it probably doesn’t make sense but sharing platform, drive trains and factory space at least makes it viable.

[Assimilator]

I think any standalone Lincoln sedan would be a massively risky investment for a company that has struggled to yield returns on any of its cars. I think Lincoln should completely exit the sedan market, focus on their new utilities, and go from there. Lincoln just needs products that perform first.

 

BUT, I certainly wouldn't object to a new sleek and exciting Lincoln sedan to replace MKZ. I love the MKZ, never cared for the Conti since you're better off in a Nautilus or Aviator anyway if you want comfort and space. MKZ is where you have style and fun, the only reason to buy sedans today IMO.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Assimilator

[rmc523]

I think any standalone Lincoln sedan would be a massively risky investment for a company that has struggled to yield returns on any of its cars. I think Lincoln should completely exit the sedan market, focus on their new utilities, and go from there. Lincoln just needs products that perform first.

 

BUT, I certainly wouldn't object to a new sleek and exciting Lincoln sedan to replace MKZ. I love the MKZ, never cared for the Conti since you're better off in a Nautilus or Aviator anyway if you want comfort and space. MKZ is where you have style and fun, the only reason to buy sedans today IMO.

 

I wonder how a BIG "sedan" would do - big in the sense of like Rolls-Royce, how a Phantom is the size/height of my Flex, yet it's still a "sedan" - as a way to sort of bridge the gap between crossover and sedan.

[brucelinc]

 

I love the MKZ, never cared for the Conti since you're better off in a Nautilus or Aviator anyway if you want comfort and space. MKZ is where you have style and fun, the only reason to buy sedans today IMO.

 

While your opinion may be shared by more buyers than mine, I disagree completely. The current MKZ is a Fusion with lipstick and drives like one. The Continental is far more refined, better riding, quieter and more solid. I have driven an MKX several times since my brother owns one and I have had one as a loaner from my dealer. NO WAY does it provide the comfort of the Continental unless you just like the feel of a minivan.

[gthims]

I have the MKZ loaded which has style and fun its good for transportation and light duties. But I just ordered the 2019 Ford Edge Titanium to replace my aging but still very dependable 2008 Ford Escape for the Utility or work vehicle when I want to haul a trailer or go to the big box store and pick up a load of mulch etc. For me I would not buy a Lincoln for a work vehicle so I hope they keep making some sort of a sedan.

[rmc523]

 

While your opinion may be shared by more buyers than mine, I disagree completely. The current MKZ is a Fusion with lipstick and drives like one. The Continental is far more refined, better riding, quieter and more solid. I have driven an MKX several times since my brother owns one and I have had one as a loaner from my dealer. NO WAY does it provide the comfort of the Continental unless you just like the feel of a minivan.

 

I think you missed his point - he was saying to use the CD6 bones, but in a sleek, exciting, modern package, rather than the more traditional image Conti portrays.

 

Think CLS vs. S-class.

 

He wasn't supporting a Fusion with a lipstick plan/product - he was supporting specifically the form/shape of the current MKZ.

[brucelinc]

 

I think you missed his point - he was saying to use the CD6 bones, but in a sleek, exciting, modern package, rather than the more traditional image Conti portrays.

 

Think CLS vs. S-class.

 

He wasn't supporting a Fusion with a lipstick plan/product - he was supporting specifically the form/shape of the current MKZ.

 

I often miss his points. If that is what he was saying, we are in agreement. I just read what he posted....that he loved the MKZ (assume he meant the current one since there is no other) and never cared for the Continental since he felt you were better off in a Nautilus or Aviator. The Nautilus is still on the old platform and the Aviator is not available yet.

 

I have posted many times that I think the Conti is way too bland and that a sleeker more modern package is the way to go. However, the current MKZ is not the sleeker more modern package that is needed, IMO.

[Fgts]

I disagree. Lincoln historically only makes money on tarted up Fords. There will be no Ford sedans for Lincoln to tart up, so I don't see any CD6 Lincoln sedan being profitable.

OTOH who's said Ford isn't doing a Ford brand sedan to replace Focus/Fusion/Taurus?.

 

As for a CD6 Continental, since CD6 is modular I don't think it would cost FMC that much if the Continental would use common powertrains and electronics from other Fords just the sheetmetal would be unique.

[fuzzymoomoo]

OTOH who's said Ford isn't doing a Ford brand sedan to replace Focus/Fusion/Taurus?

Uh, Ford did. Have you no been paying attention? All sedans are gone.

[rmc523]

 

I often miss his points. If that is what he was saying, we are in agreement. I just read what he posted....that he loved the MKZ (assume he meant the current one since there is no other) and never cared for the Continental since he felt you were better off in a Nautilus or Aviator. The Nautilus is still on the old platform and the Aviator is not available yet.

 

I have posted many times that I think the Conti is way too bland and that a sleeker more modern package is the way to go. However, the current MKZ is not the sleeker more modern package that is needed, IMO.

 

I ought to post the sketch I made of a "white space" Lincoln sedan mix....

[rmc523]

Uh, Ford did. Have you no been paying attention? All sedans are gone.

 

I still think we'll see vehicles that are basically sedans on stilts branded as "crossovers"

[Fgts]

Uh, Ford did. Have you no been paying attention? All sedans are gone.

You no read?, don't think Ford would broadcast to competition what they exactly doing as well as rethinking themselves as seen with Ranger and Focus Active.

[akirby]

You no read?, don't think Ford would broadcast to competition what they exactly doing as well as rethinking themselves as seen with Ranger and Focus Active.

 

They already said no Ford brand cars except Mustang and Focus Active, and last week they killed Focus Active. What did we miss?

[MKZMark]

I can tell you that if Lincoln doesn't sell sedans when it's time to replace my 2017 MKZ I won't be shopping them. And no, I don't want a high-roofed crossover.

 

Somehow, Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, Acura, etc. can sell to this market without going bankrupt but Ford can't? Seems ridiculous to me. Might as well name it the Lincoln Truck Company and call it a day.

[akirby]

I can tell you that if Lincoln doesn't sell sedans when it's time to replace my 2017 MKZ I won't be shopping them. And no, I don't want a high-roofed crossover.

 

Somehow, Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, Acura, etc. can sell to this market without going bankrupt but Ford can't? Seems ridiculous to me. Might as well name it the Lincoln Truck Company and call it a day.

 

Lincoln says they're NOT giving up on sedans and everyone is freaking out about Lincoln giving up on sedans. SMH.

 

As for the others - they're either playing on a higher level with better products and higher ATPs (BMW, MB, Caddy, Jaguar) or they're content with lower profit margins. They may also have a different market for sedans in their home markets.

 

 

Right or wrong this comes down to Ford believing it can get much higher margins on other products (including some non car products) for the same investment. Without these other opportunities they'd still be pursuing sedans like they always have and living with 4% margins.

[fordmantpw]

Somehow, Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, Hyundai, Lexus, Infinity, Acura, etc. can sell to this market without going bankrupt but Ford can't? Seems ridiculous to me.

 

For crying out loud people! It's not about going bankrupt, it's about making MORE money. Geez! For the 1,938,332nd time, would you rather invest $1B and turn a profit of $50M or $100M? That's the difference here, the return on their original investment. Will they lose some customers? Yes, but they will gain some as well. It's a calculated risk they are taking to earn more off the same or fewer customers.

[rmc523]

I think it also means something that they went out of their way to talk about Ford sedans going away, but have done the opposite with Lincoln sedans. I do think we'll see consolidation to one model, but I think there will still be a sedan-esque model in the lineup.

[fuzzymoomoo]

You no read?, don't think Ford would broadcast to competition what they exactly doing as well as rethinking themselves as seen with Ranger and Focus Active.

Well they did. And they are getting appropriately lambasted for it.